Pain

[furuoshiki]

I have a question for both men and women on the forum about pain.

This is not regarding pain due to a pre-existing or diagnosed condition but generalized pain due to anything other than a clinically identified condition.

Does anyone have more information on why women tend to be in pain more, and tend to be more debilitated from issues with pain?
 
I have heard biological rationale along the lines that a man's brain is configured to withstand or tolerate generalized pain more so than women. Or is it something purely psychological?

The reason I am asking is because both on and offline many of my female associates at work and in my personal life continuously complain about being in some sort of pain on the weekly basis (at least once a week). This is unaffiliated with any cold or flu symptoms.

Any medical science/sociology majors out there?

I just need to know if I should be ignoring their complaints or if it could really indicate a serious health problem, since I get this from a lot of females lately.

Usually when I am in some sort of annoying pain I first start with a pain killer and some caffeinated beverage (coffee/tea) and then I occupy myself with a video game or other distraction where I am actively engaged and not focusing on the discomfort.

But it seems that females typically want to lie on their back and continuously talk about said pain instead of addressing it. Why is this? Any psychology majors who would like to take up this challenge?

If you provide an answer, please tell me what I can propose to said female to relieve themselves of the psychological component of the pain.

Thanks.

[kurandoinu]

Meh. Other than the occassional bad period or DOMS from working out I don't tend to moan about pain. I'm covered in burns and things from work as well. When I do get hurt I tend to take pain killers, and if that doesn't work then its usually a trip to the doctors to see whats up. I suffer with a weak wrist, and when that hurts it REALLY hurts, but I just rub gel painkiller on it, strap it up and get on with life. Not enough time to lay around whinging.

So its not all females that moan and groan all the time. You'd have an easier time getting my boyfriend to have bedrest and the like than me!

[Xiong Chiamiov]

At least in the Western world, men are taught to swallow their emotions (walk it off, pussy), so we internalize it.  You don't tend to hear us complain much, then, but there are other issues created.

[furuoshiki]

Meh. Other than the occassional bad period or DOMS from working out I don't tend to moan about pain. I'm covered in burns and things from work as well. When I do get hurt I tend to take pain killers, and if that doesn't work then its usually a trip to the doctors to see whats up. I suffer with a weak wrist, and when that hurts it REALLY hurts, but I just rub gel painkiller on it, strap it up and get on with life. Not enough time to lay around whinging.

So its not all females that moan and groan all the time. You'd have an easier time getting my boyfriend to have bedrest and the like than me!

This is basically the answer I was looking for. Just today I have encountered more non-period related whining about generalized pain such as headaches and they don't even have burns or other occupational injuries like you do.

Xiong is also right but I feel this may be something largely biological in nature alongside the cultural aspect.

On that note both men and women ARE allowed to complain of soreness as a result of doing activities such as working out and playing sports.

Maybe because it is a good type of pain that people do not mind hearing about or experiencing vicariously.

[kurandoinu]

I have to get on with life. No use complaining about it all the time. I'll just moan to myself in my head

[Neco]

I have never, in my life, come across a person or a group of people or one gender that continually whines about some kind of "pain" on a daily or weekly basis - that is NOT rooted in some kind of diagnosed medical condition, or general soreness from physical activity.

Maybe they just want attention, or maybe you are over analyzing the situation or unknowingly misrepresenting what they are actually complaining about..

What exactly are these people saying to describe the reason the are in pain and how often, and does it always change?

I have two chronic conditions that can be painful or at least uncomfortable, and I don't really complain about them not to be macho but just because thats the way I am..  I'll bitch to my mom or dad, or if I have to leave work I'll tell my boss that I can't stay because of a flare up or whatever..  But  I don't really complain much beyond that.   Although I am a member of a support forum, so I do have an outlet there if I want to vent.

My mom almost never complains about pain, and she has a knee with cartilage that is starting to disintegrate,  she does housework or other stuff that has her on her knees for hours,  but the only time she really makes a scene is when she gets a charlie horse and has to jump up to walk it off.

I've never seen my sister whine unless she was really sick, or had an injury.  The only time I've seen her cry from pain was from an ear ache a few years ago.

Chronic Pain does not discriminate when it comes to debilitation.   There used to be times where I absolutely would shut down for days at a time, before I got a handle on what adjustments I needed to make to ease the problems.   Also women tend to get diagnosed for medical problems more than men do, because men are afraid to talk about stuff even with their doctors.   This leads to skewed stats for medical conditions, and also could account for why women may in general, be more expressive about their pain.

But I seriously doubt they feel it or are more susceptible to it, than a man - at least beyond any statistical analysis.

[isukianime]

Women feel pain more than men, more often and for longer periods of time, researchers claim.

Despite the popular belief that men are wimps when it comes to dealing with pain and the female experience of childbirth gives women the upper hand, scientists found that the opposite was true.

Several studies have now concluded that not only do women report more pain during their lives, they also experience it in more parts of the body, more often and ... (cont'd)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-354638/Women-feel-pain-men.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4641567.stm

[Neco]

Right.. But the study doesn't really explain anything within the context of the original posters situation, that I can see.

The research also seemed more geared toward assessing coping ability than the actual amount of pain felt too, which is very different and can't be used to make a blanket statement about one gender.

Unless there is some kind of medical journal / peer reviewed  study that's published, it won't hold much weight though.

[darkjedi]

I heard that women evolved to have more tolerance against heat and coldness at least. It had something to do with women being the carrier of babies.

[kurandoinu]

I have really bad circulation, and get cold hands and feet easily, but the rest of me gets hot really easily. But then if me and my boyfriend have a bath together he can't stand how hot I make the wayer (its really not that hot :/ )

[Takeshi]

On that note both men and women ARE allowed to complain of soreness as a result of doing activities such as working out and playing sports.

Such kind of pain is just hilarious to have. I've been doing sports quite a while. Attended a sports college and man did we work out/run/burn calories. But when I go back to training again I get this, of course, pain, but it's just hilarious to have since it really limits my movements. I just really love having a laugh about it. I'd go like:

- "Haha, holy crap this hurts!"  

Yes, I'm not making any sense. I know. Pain, who wants that, but I like to feel active.

My answer would be, between women and men, that (some) women are more sensitive.

[isukianime]

I heard that women evolved to have more tolerance against heat and coldness at least. It had something to do with women being the carrier of babies.

also false. women feel hotter/colder than men.

[furuoshiki]

Women feel pain more than men, more often and for longer periods of time, researchers claim.

Despite the popular belief that men are wimps when it comes to dealing with pain and the female experience of childbirth gives women the upper hand, scientists found that the opposite was true.

Several studies have now concluded that not only do women report more pain during their lives, they also experience it in more parts of the body, more often and ... (cont'd)

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-354638/Women-feel-pain-men.html

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4641567.stm

This research has been somewhat confirmed by my personal experiences. This is exactly what I was thinking. I  think the research results are true (because I trust the BBC almost as much as an academic journal). In fact I have used some reports published by the BBC maybe not in my Senior Thesis paper but certainly in regular reports that we have to do throughout the school year so I feel they are legit.

I have never, in my life, come across a person or a group of people or one gender that continually whines about some kind of "pain" on a daily or weekly basis - that is NOT rooted in some kind of diagnosed medical condition, or general soreness from physical activity.

Neither have I! Until somewhat recently. None of my family suffers from these problems. But after I graduated High School and went to College I started seeing more females in informal situations which is where I heard the first instances of the whining I explained in the original post.

Maybe they just want attention, or maybe you are over analyzing the situation or unknowingly misrepresenting what they are actually complaining about..

I used to tend to over-analyze but it's become sort of like the Healthcare debate. It's everywhere! And you can't avoid it.

What exactly are these people saying to describe the reason the are in pain and how often, and does it always change?

Example:

Jennifer(an acquaintance):
              10/29: Ohhh my stomach hurts
             10/31: My head hurts
              11/1: My feet ache
               11/5: My back hurts
Maria (co-worker):
                11/8: My arm is numb
                 11/11: My toes are cold (wearing open toed shoes in November)
                  11/12: My back hurts (favorite among women in their 20's? no they generally don't have big boobs.)
                  11/15: My thighs are chapped (cheap stockings?)
                  11/17: My fingers are numb
                   11/18: My head hurts

Please compare this with two of my guy friends:

Zürick (yes his name is weird.):
                    10/31: Aw shit man, my balls ache. I need some sex. Let's order a hooker man.
                    11/1: My stomach hurts man. NO MORE THAI FOOD!
                     11/7: Yo my feet are killing me man. Maybe I need some of that Glutamine shit.
Mark:
                    11/2: Fuck man. You got anything natural for a hangover? What about that Tumeric stuff? I hear it works better than Asprin.
                    11/5: Ah my dick is raw. Too much jacking off.
                     


Please notice the focus on the SOLUTION OR CAUSE to the pain as opposed to focusing on the problem itself.



Also women tend to get diagnosed for medical problems more than men do, because men are afraid to talk about stuff even with their doctors. This is more common among older men, I think younger men are more educated now about their health and are seeing doctors like they are supposed to, WHEN THE ISSUE WARRANTS PROFESSIONAL HELP. However, there in lies the distinction. It could also be that women are more prone to worry and be hypochondriacs than men, since they remember a lot of things that we simply forget. This leads to skewed stats for medical conditions, and also could account for why women may in general, be more expressive about their pain. Or it could be that women are just more expressive about even minor things such as small headaches.

Very important excerpts from the article that are 100% true:

Women focus on the emotional aspects of their pain, which makes it worse, while men tend to focus on the physicality.

"Women who concentrate on the emotional aspects of their pain may actually experience more pain as a result, possibly because the emotions associated with pain are negative."

"Women tend to report to pain at lower thresholds than men. We know that we have far more women attending pain clinics than men too.

"More research needs to be done. It's hugely important because most of the drugs we use in pain have been tested on men.    There is some evidence that women respond better to different pain killers than men."

Wow I didn't know that last part! No wonder popping a pill may not work for women sometimes. I've always recommended pain killers but they have always declined. Maybe it is because the pain killers are actually less effective for females than it is for males. Perhaps they also need to address the psychological component of the pain as well? 

To play devil's advocate here's a rebuttal from one of the commenter's on the article:

"There's no way that anyone can accurately assess anyone else's pain. How can I convey to you how much I hurt in a way that really lets you know?"

This is bullshit because: Basically a child or baby let's the parent know it's in pain by crying (in those old enough to voice their pains, whining or complaining). Hence you do know how much pain a person is in because they are telling you verbally. (If they are mute then that's a different story entirely) This is why I am concerned regarding females because I don't know if they are just groaning about feeling sluggish or are really in some sort of debilitating pain.

I don't think that Men remain silent when they are in pain just to appear manly. However, instead of focusing on words, we focus on actions. Men will go to the Doctor and typically find out what is wrong if the pain is bad enough. My grandfather has never told my grandmother about any of his health issues. But now that he has dementia and is in a nursing home we have been privy to his medical file and he has seen the Doctor on numerous occasions regarding pains throughout the years.

So it may in fact be a fallacy that older men just "ignore" pain altogether or refuse to seek treatment for it.

I guess this means that Men go to the Doctor...You just won't know until they are either dead or mentally incapacitated! LOL

[fohfoh]

Soccer 101.

Walk it off.
If that doesn't work, rub some dirt in it.

In all honestly, I'm quite certain I ignore most of my pain. I get annoyed that pain hampers my physical performance and find ways to try and get my body to use other areas/muscles to absorb impact so that it's less painful and I can keep up my performance. I recall partially tearing a ligament. The pain was nothing. The fact I felt like I was clogging up walk ways and stuff because I was moving slow was more of an issue for me.

For females though... isn't there also the issue of Fibromyalgia? Though this one is more rare.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibromyalgia

[vuzedome]

pain, Pain.... Pain? PAIN!! pain.... palin.... Palin? Palin!? PALIN!!

[Neco]

regarding men not going to the doctor, or not reporting things to their doctors.   Those opinions are things I have read in various studies of chronic conditions over the years.

I have plenty of anecdotal evidence to support that conclusion myself, but then thats the crux of the matters.  Its all anecdotal unless there is a serious study that is very thorough, published in a peer reviewed medical journal.

The two chronic conditions I have are both dominated by female sufferers.   I kind of find that hard to believe.   It also comes down to social development and cultural implications, how a person was raised to cope, etc..

As per your examples.  That sounds like typical whiny girl shit.  They either voice it to you because they are just being whiney, or they maybe think you care or something like that.   I get random aches and pains all the time,  but I almost never say anything to anyone, unless its like a really bad headache interferring with some work, or a conversation or something.

Those are all every day aches and pains.


But I must rebut the whole baby crying thing.

You absolutely, cannot understand the amount of pain someone else feels, or how they feel it.  It is physically impossible.   Just like  when people get together and ask dumb questions like  "what does an orgasm feel like for a girl/guy?"  etc..   The other person/gender can't possibly know that kind of thing.   Pain is a deeply rooted personal response to negative stimuli.   As individuals we all cope with it differently,  across what is probably an average range of  coping ability.

A baby might cry,  but they cry for numerous reasons.   Firstly its the only way they know how to vocalize to get the attention of their parents.  But they may need to be changed, or they may be cranky for no reason, or maybe they are hungry?    But even for pain in particular,  you cannot know how another person feels when they are in pain.  You can only know that they are IN pain.   There is a big difference.

One of the conditions I suffer from is a severe form of Restless Legs Syndrome ( Refractory RLS - 24/7 almost always treated with strong opiates).   Its the butt of a lot of stupid jokes,  but its a neurological condition with genetic factors also playing a part.   However,  the one thing every RLS sufferer I come across agrees upon is this -  

Nobody can understand our pain,  not even other RLS sufferers.  Because we all interpret pain differently.   Some people feel like their muscles are ripping apart or knotting up, others feel burning sensations,  others feel like  electricity or soda bubbles are running through their arms or legs (it is not exclusive to the legs) ,  and some people just simply feel pain.

The closest thing we will ever have to allowing one person to understand the suffering of another,  outside of  virtual physical simulation,  is the Pain Scale.   There are all kinds of pain scales but the one I have in mind is the  1 to 10 chart you would see in a Hospital room or something.  When someone says "I feel like a 7"  its pretty easy to understand they hurt a hell of a lot..  But thats as close as we can ever come, really.

edit: Just to add on to that.  You can guage someones pain by the intensity and tone of their vocalizations (e.g screaming in agony) but again all you can understand is that someone is IN pain, and that it is very severe.  You still have no idea what that feels like for them.

[kurandoinu]

Fellow Restless Leg Syndrome sufferer here. Mines gotten milder lately, suffered pretty badly with it last year and trying to explain to my boyfriend what was up was always a hard one as its not something I can really describe. He does now know that if I start pulling funny faces and wiggling my legs about a lot that its kicked in again and I'm probably gonna be cranky.

[AceHigh]

Life is pain....


damn, that guy is the coolest one of the goth kids. 

[furuoshiki]

Life is pain....


damn, that guy is the coolest one of the goth kids. 

Ace- Iori Yagami?

FohFoh- Yes Fibromyalgia sounds very familiar. I think mostly females have that. I don't know any males with it. Maybe it could be that, sub-clinical version?

Neco- While I understand what females do whine and nag more than males, these particular females whine not about boyfriends or gossip, they are whining constantly about being in pain. Perhaps what FohFoh suggested is the case. Maybe they have some sub-clinical illness that is causing this.

[Neco]

Fellow Restless Leg Syndrome sufferer here. Mines gotten milder lately, suffered pretty badly with it last year and trying to explain to my boyfriend what was up was always a hard one as its not something I can really describe. He does now know that if I start pulling funny faces and wiggling my legs about a lot that its kicked in again and I'm probably gonna be cranky.

Go figure,  everywhere else on the Internet the first response is always a joke or someone saying they heard it was made up to sell pills.   Ah well..  

I'll tell you what though,  keep a good doctor in reserve and pray it does not progress fastly.  Getting the -proper- medication can be a pain in the ass.  I've heard from several people who have been called drug seekers and even one person who spent the night in jail for "doctor shopping"  just because they were trying to find a doctor who would prescribe them painkillers.

Pain is obscenely undertreated in this country largely thanks to the D.E.A and FDA instilling the fear of GOD into doctors who want to keep their licenses.    I got really lucky..  my doctor (was) a great guy and I'm glad I got the chance to straighten out my meds before he passed away.   I about freaked out until I was reassured the clinic would continue seeing me and prescribing my Methadone.