RPG's dying?

[Proin Drakenzol]

So no RPGs are not dying its just not Dragon Warrior or Phantasy Star anymore.
Which is both a good and bad thing.

Which were never the base line for RPGs to begin with.

[DeadSpaceX]

Guess it is true, what you were introduced to as an rpg first sticks with you in many cases...to me there hasn't been a true standalone rpg ever. They are stories, you have choices, but those choices all have predetermined outcomes. Someone mentioned that it's an rpg if you can choose a good or evil path...no...it's still a predetermined path. Quite simply, you cannot go outside the storyline to do anything to change the path they've (game devs) have designated for you.

Role Playing Game, not Story Playing Game. MMORPG's are closest to the reality (or unreality) of an RPG, you can be good, or evil, make allies and enemies...and the game doesn't end when you complete a quest. In fact, the world is persistent and the choices you've made carry through your entire time playing. I play mmo called rappelz, and another perfect world, choices i've made in both games, friends and enemies i have, guilds i'm in, etc...is closer to a role playing experience than any standalone rpg.

Oblivion could have been that way, with a better AI, more choices besides just killing things (to make money) buying or building a orchid, farm, smithy, etc. Kvatch instead of being triggered, should have happened at a predetermined time/date...and the enemies should have kept coming whether i was there or not, eventually overwhelming the npc defenders and spreading out through the land.

Sosseres made a point that oblivion lost his interest, it's valid, there was no urgency...if you didn't trigger events they didn't happen. another that relates to play style, some like the story path, consider that an rpg...i like them too...but it is just a story, a predetermined path. an SPG.

The closest standalone game i've seen to an rpg...isn't even classed as one, X3 series, reunion or terran conflict, you can be anything, do anything within that universe. many things occur without you triggering them...you have no real path but one you choose. Dragons age wasn't d&d like, but then again, the d&d branded games weren't d&d like either, they had the rules, but little of the freedom or role play elements. If you have to follow a predetermined path to victory, given limited choices...that's not role playing. Unless of course you like that role, like the paths chosen for you.

[Fool010]

You have to admit that true roleplaying (though complete seems more appropriate) and the need for a storyline cannot coexist.
The storyline is needed to give a sense of purpose to the game, but at the same time it's a limit to your freedom of choice.
Complete roleplay on the other hand means you're making the story, which eliminates any scripted storyline.

Sandboxing doesn't equate to roleplay, because freeroaming doesn't mean you're free to choose what you're doing. You may go wherever you want, but it's irrelevant because the storyline won't move unless you go where you're supposed to.

Neither computer games, nor console games are RPG. The former, at best, have a bit more of RPG elements.

See it like a train ride, you can't change the direction, you can change tracks only a limited number of times, and you can't change tracks whenever you want. Above all, you can't go anywhere the tracks don't lead to.

[fohfoh]

^ the fuck?

Creation of RPG Hybrids.

Many will show up.

Then someone will sit back, and design a game that "goes back to the roots".

[DeadSpaceX]

You have to admit that true roleplaying (though complete seems more appropriate) and the need for a storyline cannot coexist.
The storyline is needed to give a sense of purpose to the game, but at the same time it's a limit to your freedom of choice.
Complete roleplay on the other hand means you're making the story, which eliminates any scripted storyline.

Sandboxing doesn't equate to roleplay, because freeroaming doesn't mean you're free to choose what you're doing. You may go wherever you want, but it's irrelevant because the storyline won't move unless you go where you're supposed to.

Neither computer games, nor console games are RPG. The former, at best, have a bit more of RPG elements.

See it like a train ride, you can't change the direction, you can change tracks only a limited number of times, and you can't change tracks whenever you want. Above all, you can't go anywhere the tracks don't lead to.

That is the crux, and devs should recognize that. It would not have been hard (i'll keep using oblivion as an example) to make the main quest, the pending invasion and destruction of the world happen regardless of the characters triggering the actions. If i spend all my time in oblivion just sight seeing and roaming around( which i tend to do)...events should still occur without triggers. And should escalate to the point where i would essentially lose the game, more gateways opened, flood of enemies, important npc's killed in the invasion, making it impossible to win thereafter. At least without slaughtering every single thing to save the world. But you can't even kill an essential npc in that game...old ultima series...you could even kill the king. Bad choice, but you could do it.

Instant gratification...gam e devs want you to win, no one wants to play a game they lose(devs think), even if that loss is caused by inaction. So...there are triggers, elements that lead a player down the garden path to the inevitable happy ending, or sad ending...but still a predetermined ending.

Games, RPG's could still have a storyline, and a purpose...just takes more effort and imagination from game developers to do it. Oblivion instead of being so event/trigger driven by the players actions...could have had it's own timescale...which it fucking should have had...but time is meaningless in the game. I pick on it because it was the closest to the realization of role playing of any standalone thus far that labeled itself as an rpg.

[nstgc]

You can have story line and RP'ing. Its just difficult. Thats why PnP RPGs will continue to exist even among modern alternatives (or the lack of).

I myself have preordered FF XIII. I can't say with certainty that I'll get my moneys worth out of it, but I'm sure I'll enjoy it. I'm certain, in fact, that I'll end up disappointed.

[MammalSauce]

^ the fuck?

Creation of RPG Hybrids.

Many will show up.

Then someone will sit back, and design a game that "goes back to the roots".

i just don't get it

[fohfoh]

^ the fuck?

Creation of RPG Hybrids.

Many will show up.

Then someone will sit back, and design a game that "goes back to the roots".

i just don't get it

Then don't bother, your little mind is overloaded.

* fohfoh casts forget on mammalsauce.

[MammalSauce]

Oh we're role playing now?

* MammalSauce equips [+1 Rubber Shield of Kindergarten Comebacks].

* MammalSauce uses [Scroll of Glue] on fohfoh.

Ha ha I'm rubber, you're glue

[nstgc]

Oh we're role playing now?

* MammalSauce equips [+1 Rubber Shield of Kindergarten Comebacks].

* MammalSauce uses [Scroll of Glue] on fohfoh.

Ha ha I'm rubber, you're glue

fail

[fohfoh]

Oh we're role playing now?

* MammalSauce equips [+1 Rubber Shield of Kindergarten Comebacks].

* MammalSauce uses [Scroll of Glue] on fohfoh.

Ha ha I'm rubber, you're glue

wtf?

[MammalSauce]

That's not how you role play.

[cicle]

I hate the fact that most RPGs have kept the RP in the name but really only the G is left in the game....

[fohfoh]

That's not how you role play.

True. But roleplaying well might actually entice others to join you.

I hate the fact that most RPGs have kept the RP in the name but really only the G is left in the game....

Uhh... more like PG is left out of the RPG?

Just play the damn thing. There is no "role".