Discussion Forums > Gaming
RPG's dying?
agentspliff:
--- Quote from: Proin Drakenzol on December 31, 2009, 09:19:30 PM ---]
I think 4e is far better than 3/3.5e and way closer to 2e than 3e ever was. I also think that Pathfinder is total garbage, but I always thought Paizo's stuff has kind of sucked giant donkey balls.
--- End quote ---
I hate responding to obvious trolls, but I have to ask, how the heck do you figure that 4e is closer to 2e?
Proin Drakenzol:
--- Quote from: agentspliff on January 01, 2010, 04:29:03 PM ---
--- Quote from: Proin Drakenzol on December 31, 2009, 09:19:30 PM ---]
I think 4e is far better than 3/3.5e and way closer to 2e than 3e ever was. I also think that Pathfinder is total garbage, but I always thought Paizo's stuff has kind of sucked giant donkey balls.
--- End quote ---
I hate responding to obvious trolls, but I have to ask, how the heck do you figure that 4e is closer to 2e?
--- End quote ---
Heavier tactically, simplified and streamlined skill systems, better role/organization of classes.
Other reasons I like 4e: less attempt at "simulationism" and more focus on game balance, toned down wizards (and I normally play arcane spellcasters), beefed up martial characters, removal of class-alignment restrictions, removal of ECL (rather they release a balanced PC version or not at all), streamlined and simpler encounter design, better handling for traps, attacker rolls for all to-hits, the entire Power system.
It's not a troll at all, asswipe, it's my honest fucking opinion.
TorturdChaos:
Personally I think they are dying out. I guess I should clarify what I think of when I think RPG - because a lot of games list don't stick with me as RPG's. I'm thinking of the Final Fantasy's, Shadowhearts, Star Ocean, Chrono Trigger & Cross - and Kingdom Hearts (more or less) - games like that. While I love diablo 2, I don't really consider that style of game an RPG - nor do I consider Oblivion or Dragon Age an RPG - although I'm not sure what to call them. Nor are Devil May Cry or God of War style games and RPG in my opinion. More of an Action Adventure.
I actually was just thinking the the other day - man I haven't seen a good RPG in a long time. maybe its just that my definition of RPG hasn't changed since I was 13 or so and first played FF7 and was hooked. But I have agree my idea of a good classic RPG hasn't been put out in a while, and its rather depressing... :(
I mean when i look up RPG on GameFAQs i do see Baldur's Gate, Aion, Diablo 1,2 &3, Dragon Age, Fable and so forth- but that doesn't stick in the classic RPG category with me :(
EDIT
Also -
Making a clone of the mechanics of a game does not guarantee a great RPG (not hit or top seller, but great. It may be a top seller just because its riding the success of its predecessor)
Take Legend of Legia for example - first was was great IMO. The whole Arts system of combat was well thought out, and different from anything around at the time - and I think is what really made the game, without the Arts system it wasn't a block buster game. If they had tried the same game with a standard turn bases system, I think it would have failed.
Now take Legia 2. New story, same combat mechanics. But the story felt kinda lack luster i guess. Didn't hold up to the first one. Same innovative combat system, but not as great of a game.
DaggerLite:
What most people seem to think of as a true RPG (including myself) is the typical linear but in-depth storytelling RPG. But aside from the fact that you can live into the role of the main character, there's very little role play in them. In fact, I doubt most people will even live into it unless the main character is really bland and generic. Personally, I never lived into any Final Fantasy characters at all, even if we had the occasional choice of dialogue. It's the great and epic story that makes a good RPG.
You still can't deny the fact that sandbox games have a much greater role play element in them, but this is an element I think most people are not actually interested in. Diablo(clones) and MMOs can't be denied their RPG classification either, even if it bases it's success more on gameplay than anything. You just can't say it's not an RPG just because they lack the aspects you're looking for in one: a somewhat linear and in-depth story.
I honestly haven't played that many typical RPGs as of late, so I can't really say whether the newer stories got through to me or not.
kyanwan:
Here's something that I consider great in RPGs.
Complexity combined with simplicity. You should have a choice, to play either way, and have an equal amount of fun.
If you want to be the ultimate beastly beast who tears up anything in-game, you can do it. You can tune your character so insanely - that it just blows your mind away. It's the most complex game out there.
Go thru the list there -
- FF6
- Chrono Trigger
- Chrono Cross ( 40 CHARACTERS! )
There were deep storylines, crazy amounts of options, even many combinations to be discovered to enhance your gameplay. They were well done.
Style over substance.
Fancypants graphics don't make a great game. Too many are all about the FMVs, cutscenes, effects, etc - how much of your gameplay do these special things take up? 1%? 10%? Look at one of the most miserable games of recent times ( yes, I played it finally - and it was disgusting imo ) - MGS4. What did they do all wrong? There's no gameplay. IT SUCKS ASS.
Too heavy on the feed, too weak on the interactive.
I liked Portable Ops more. That's BAD.
People are forgetting what gaming is all about - it's about the gameplay. It's about the fun. It's about the depth of the game, discovering how to play better, building an advantage by using the game's built-in-depth ... to make you a better player.
Even some games with a great storyline - they've got just the beginnings of a storyline. That's it.
Hmm ...
makes me think a bit. Who did the older RPGs?
Game designers ... or writers?
I see a game often mentioned as one of the best games of all time: Chrono Trigger.
Who did the story and characters for this game?
Akira Toriyama
What is Akira Toriyama?
A writer / artist.
IMO - computer programmers are terrible for creativity ... outside of devising new ways to crunch numbers & process data. ;) The better they are and more devoted to the trade - the more they've got all of the personality of a doorknob. Having the personality of a doorknob ... does not a good story produce.
The people involved in these project designs - need to be purely creative. If these titles are done by creative people & writers ... then they need better writers & artists.
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