Author Topic: RPG's dying? (Read 11369 times)

DaggerLite · « **Reply #60 on:** January 04, 2010, 10:22:36 PM »

Quote from: kyanwan on January 04, 2010, 10:03:33 PM

What is Akira Toriyama?

A writer / artist.

IMO - computer programmers are terrible for creativity ... outside of devising new ways to crunch numbers & process data. ;) The better they are and more devoted to the trade - the more they've got all of the personality of a doorknob. Having the personality of a doorknob ... does not a good story produce.

Games aren't made by one person. They have programmers, sound engineers and composers, writers, etc. It seems like you're implying that other RPGs aren't scripted by professionals. I can't speak for all of them, of course. The problem is that just because a game is well written by a professional, it can still be full of clichés and stuff that causes it to not sit well with most players.

The sole problem in my case is that I don't have time to play RPGs much now a days since I now have other obligations, with the vast internet taking up pretty much what I have left of spare time. I just recently got to play Kingdom Hearts 2 and thought it was horrible compared to the first. That's all just because they messed up the story. But aside from that, I can't really say that there are no good RPGs around just because I haven't played them. People have suggested a bunch of them in this thread, and I'm sure Uncharted 2 (RPG?), Tales of Vesperia, Bayonetta, and so on are good games if you actually give them a try. Or perhaps people could list the games they played recently that did not sit well, having played more than the first 5 hours of it.

As for graphics, I am sure most people will agree with you. It doesn't matter if it looks great if the gameplay and story sucks, or vice-versa. However, you can't make a game today with the graphics of a game made in '95 and expect it to hit anything else than a small niche market. Most poor looking games today are done so purposely. I think most companies would like their games to be as good as it can be overall.

fohfoh · « **Reply #61 on:** January 05, 2010, 12:12:41 AM »

Quote from: DaggerLite on January 04, 2010, 10:22:36 PM

As for graphics, I am sure most people will agree with you. It doesn't matter if it looks great if the gameplay and story sucks, or vice-versa. However, you can't make a game today with the graphics of a game made in '95 and expect it to hit anything else than a small niche market. Most poor looking games today are done so purposely. I think most companies would like their games to be as good as it can be overall.

Umm... actually you can. It's called the wii. In fact you can have WORSE graphics than 1995. (Hints at the black and white and red games from that console)

DaggerLite · « **Reply #62 on:** January 05, 2010, 12:26:22 AM »

Quote from: fohfoh on January 05, 2010, 12:12:41 AM

Umm... actually you can. It's called the wii. In fact you can have WORSE graphics than 1995. (Hints at the black and white and red games from that console)

Well, I stand corrected. ;p

But it's not exactly what I was aiming for. I was speaking of games for "gamers." Not this new generation of games for everyone crap. Making an RPG with delicious graphics versus a game with visible pixels in isometric view or low polygon counts, the prior is obviously more desired by the bigger market. At least, that's what I'd think.

fohfoh · « **Reply #63 on:** January 05, 2010, 01:03:54 AM »

Quote from: DaggerLite on January 05, 2010, 12:26:22 AM

Quote from: fohfoh on January 05, 2010, 12:12:41 AM
Umm... actually you can. It's called the wii. In fact you can have WORSE graphics than 1995. (Hints at the black and white and red games from that console)

Well, I stand corrected. ;p

But it's not exactly what I was aiming for. I was speaking of games for "gamers." Not this new generation of games for everyone crap. Making an RPG with delicious graphics versus a game with visible pixels in isometric view or low polygon counts, the prior is obviously more desired by the bigger market. At least, that's what I'd think.

True, but in all seriousness, I believe that a few of those games are all "test beds". Or "cash cows". Something to keep the bankflow rolling while they figure out the "BIG" projects.

Btw... I was hinting at games like "No more heroes" which displays graphics that rival someone trying to rip off an SNES with a toothpick, paperclip, several sticky notes and with one of those game doctor things, and finding a way to convert the thing to an orange shaped tank top. Game is fun though... but not really an rpg in the same sense you guys want.

kardz · « **Reply #64 on:** January 05, 2010, 05:41:20 AM »

Quote from: TorturdChaos on January 04, 2010, 01:27:42 AM

Personally I think they are dying out. I guess I should clarify what I think of when I think RPG - because a lot of games list don't stick with me as RPG's. I'm thinking of the Final Fantasy's, Shadowhearts, Star Ocean, Chrono Trigger & Cross - and Kingdom Hearts (more or less) - games like that. While I love diablo 2, I don't really consider that style of game an RPG - nor do I consider Oblivion or Dragon Age an RPG - although I'm not sure what to call them. Nor are Devil May Cry or God of War style games and RPG in my opinion. More of an Action Adventure.

I actually was just thinking the the other day - man I haven't seen a good RPG in a long time. maybe its just that my definition of RPG hasn't changed since I was 13 or so and first played FF7 and was hooked. But I have agree my idea of a good classic RPG hasn't been put out in a while, and its rather depressing...

I mean when i look up RPG on GameFAQs i do see Baldur's Gate, Aion, Diablo 1,2 &3, Dragon Age, Fable and so forth- but that doesn't stick in the classic RPG category with me

EDIT
Also -
Making a clone of the mechanics of a game does not guarantee a great RPG (not hit or top seller, but great. It may be a top seller just because its riding the success of its predecessor)

Take Legend of Legia for example - first was was great IMO. The whole Arts system of combat was well thought out, and different from anything around at the time - and I think is what really made the game, without the Arts system it wasn't a block buster game. If they had tried the same game with a standard turn bases system, I think it would have failed.
Now take Legia 2. New story, same combat mechanics. But the story felt kinda lack luster i guess. Didn't hold up to the first one. Same innovative combat system, but not as great of a game.

alskndlsandslandasd s.a,ndsa

What the fuck did I just read?

fohfoh · « **Reply #65 on:** January 05, 2010, 06:56:58 AM »

Quote from: kardz on January 05, 2010, 05:41:20 AM

Quote from: TorturdChaos on January 04, 2010, 01:27:42 AM
Personally I think they are dying out. I guess I should clarify what I think of when I think RPG - because a lot of games list don't stick with me as RPG's. I'm thinking of the Final Fantasy's, Shadowhearts, Star Ocean, Chrono Trigger & Cross - and Kingdom Hearts (more or less) - games like that. While I love diablo 2, I don't really consider that style of game an RPG - nor do I consider Oblivion or Dragon Age an RPG - although I'm not sure what to call them. Nor are Devil May Cry or God of War style games and RPG in my opinion. More of an Action Adventure.

I actually was just thinking the the other day - man I haven't seen a good RPG in a long time. maybe its just that my definition of RPG hasn't changed since I was 13 or so and first played FF7 and was hooked. But I have agree my idea of a good classic RPG hasn't been put out in a while, and its rather depressing...

I mean when i look up RPG on GameFAQs i do see Baldur's Gate, Aion, Diablo 1,2 &3, Dragon Age, Fable and so forth- but that doesn't stick in the classic RPG category with me

EDIT
Also -
Making a clone of the mechanics of a game does not guarantee a great RPG (not hit or top seller, but great. It may be a top seller just because its riding the success of its predecessor)

Take Legend of Legia for example - first was was great IMO. The whole Arts system of combat was well thought out, and different from anything around at the time - and I think is what really made the game, without the Arts system it wasn't a block buster game. If they had tried the same game with a standard turn bases system, I think it would have failed.
Now take Legia 2. New story, same combat mechanics. But the story felt kinda lack luster i guess. Didn't hold up to the first one. Same innovative combat system, but not as great of a game.

alskndlsandslandasd s.a,ndsa

What the fuck did I just read?

Words.

So explain your confusion with the English language if you have them.

Futaba · « **Reply #66 on:** January 09, 2010, 04:08:54 PM »

Quote from: kyanwan on December 28, 2009, 07:47:24 PM

Quote from: Futaba on December 24, 2009, 10:03:39 AM
RPGs will never die. People like GRINDAN FOREVER too much. RPGs with cool next gen graphics are going to take a while to make because there's an expected 40+ hours of gameplay for most RPGs, not 6-8 like most other stuff that gets cranked out.

WHAT? May I remind you, one of the most lived, most epic, most perfect, most imitated RPGs of all time, was invented IN THE UNITED STATES by none other than the father of the ultimate RPG - Gary Gygax - yes, I speak of D&D. D&D had infinite storyline - it's not about grinding, it's about enjoying the story, having some fun - having character depth. 6-8 hours of gameplay is NOT a game. People are too un-creative these days.

What does this have to do with my post at all? I said it takes a lot more time to crank out next-gen graphics over a 40+ hour videogame AND have good writing and lore development for decent immersion, and that easy-to-make 6 hour action games are all the rage these days because they are easy to make.

You just started yelling about the U.S. and DnD for no real reason.

Oh and an infinite storyline means you are grinding forever. If not for levels, then for gear, moniez, rank, land, TO SAVE THE WORLD etc. The playstyle of an RPG is a grind, no matter what kind you play. You choose your class, develop your playstyle as you level, and repeat the same basic strategy on every enemy you encounter. You always encounter lots of small enemies and some sort of boss enemies. The storyline is not at the forefront 100% of the time, because you can't have a game be completely story and have anyone still care about it at 50+ hours. That's called a visual novel, not a game. The story is there is there so you feel immersed and the grind is fun for you. You feel like so-and-so on whatever mission to save whatever and discover something cool.

kardz · « **Reply #67 on:** January 09, 2010, 08:49:28 PM »

Quote from: fohfoh on January 05, 2010, 06:56:58 AM

Quote from: kardz on January 05, 2010, 05:41:20 AM
Quote from: TorturdChaos on January 04, 2010, 01:27:42 AM
Personally I think they are dying out. I guess I should clarify what I think of when I think RPG - because a lot of games list don't stick with me as RPG's. I'm thinking of the Final Fantasy's, Shadowhearts, Star Ocean, Chrono Trigger & Cross - and Kingdom Hearts (more or less) - games like that. While I love diablo 2, I don't really consider that style of game an RPG - nor do I consider Oblivion or Dragon Age an RPG - although I'm not sure what to call them. Nor are Devil May Cry or God of War style games and RPG in my opinion. More of an Action Adventure.

I actually was just thinking the the other day - man I haven't seen a good RPG in a long time. maybe its just that my definition of RPG hasn't changed since I was 13 or so and first played FF7 and was hooked. But I have agree my idea of a good classic RPG hasn't been put out in a while, and its rather depressing...

I mean when i look up RPG on GameFAQs i do see Baldur's Gate, Aion, Diablo 1,2 &3, Dragon Age, Fable and so forth- but that doesn't stick in the classic RPG category with me

EDIT
Also -
Making a clone of the mechanics of a game does not guarantee a great RPG (not hit or top seller, but great. It may be a top seller just because its riding the success of its predecessor)

Take Legend of Legia for example - first was was great IMO. The whole Arts system of combat was well thought out, and different from anything around at the time - and I think is what really made the game, without the Arts system it wasn't a block buster game. If they had tried the same game with a standard turn bases system, I think it would have failed.
Now take Legia 2. New story, same combat mechanics. But the story felt kinda lack luster i guess. Didn't hold up to the first one. Same innovative combat system, but not as great of a game.

alskndlsandslandasd s.a,ndsa

What the fuck did I just read?

Words.

So explain your confusion with the English language if you have them.

Did you even notice the part where I highlighted?

He just pretty much generalized that JRPG's are the only RPG's, & P&P rpg based games aren't "RPG".

Jesus christ the amount of pure ignorance in that post is enough to make any gamer who wasn't born in the 00's rage. I'm not a fanboy and I think all fanboys should really go on and suck a cock or something, I enjoy JRPG's as much as WRPG's.

RPG's aren't about the fancy FMV's and stupid beautifully rendered cut scenes, it's about role-fucking playing. I "enjoyed" most of the FF titles but let's be honest they've been cranking out the same generic hashed up shitty plot for way too many games now but fanboys are too busy eating up anything that comes out SE even if its bad therefore SE really doesn't need to change their shit if they can sell million of copies of a terrible game.

FFXIII came out recently in Japan and so far most reviews are pretty negative citing it as the most linear and the only good parts are unlocked after 30 or so hours of gameplay which is pretty much near the end of the game. Basically you're put in a straight path and can't explore, can't backtrack, there's no towns you move from point a to z in a straight path.

tl;dr - dishes and chores.

Sosseres · « **Reply #68 on:** January 09, 2010, 09:11:55 PM »

I like linear games. With choices during the linear path. The opposite taken to far makes games like oblivion that is no fun at all, for me.

fohfoh · « **Reply #69 on:** January 09, 2010, 10:19:48 PM »

Quote from: kardz on January 09, 2010, 08:49:28 PM

Quote from: fohfoh on January 05, 2010, 06:56:58 AM
Quote from: kardz on January 05, 2010, 05:41:20 AM
Quote from: TorturdChaos on January 04, 2010, 01:27:42 AM
Personally I think they are dying out. I guess I should clarify what I think of when I think RPG - because a lot of games list don't stick with me as RPG's. I'm thinking of the Final Fantasy's, Shadowhearts, Star Ocean, Chrono Trigger & Cross - and Kingdom Hearts (more or less) - games like that. While I love diablo 2, I don't really consider that style of game an RPG - nor do I consider Oblivion or Dragon Age an RPG - although I'm not sure what to call them. Nor are Devil May Cry or God of War style games and RPG in my opinion. More of an Action Adventure.

I actually was just thinking the the other day - man I haven't seen a good RPG in a long time. maybe its just that my definition of RPG hasn't changed since I was 13 or so and first played FF7 and was hooked. But I have agree my idea of a good classic RPG hasn't been put out in a while, and its rather depressing...

I mean when i look up RPG on GameFAQs i do see Baldur's Gate, Aion, Diablo 1,2 &3, Dragon Age, Fable and so forth- but that doesn't stick in the classic RPG category with me

EDIT
Also -
Making a clone of the mechanics of a game does not guarantee a great RPG (not hit or top seller, but great. It may be a top seller just because its riding the success of its predecessor)

Take Legend of Legia for example - first was was great IMO. The whole Arts system of combat was well thought out, and different from anything around at the time - and I think is what really made the game, without the Arts system it wasn't a block buster game. If they had tried the same game with a standard turn bases system, I think it would have failed.
Now take Legia 2. New story, same combat mechanics. But the story felt kinda lack luster i guess. Didn't hold up to the first one. Same innovative combat system, but not as great of a game.

alskndlsandslandasd s.a,ndsa

What the fuck did I just read?

Words.

So explain your confusion with the English language if you have them.

Did you even notice the part where I highlighted?

He just pretty much generalized that JRPG's are the only RPG's, & P&P rpg based games aren't "RPG".

Jesus christ the amount of pure ignorance in that post is enough to make any gamer who wasn't born in the 00's rage. I'm not a fanboy and I think all fanboys should really go on and suck a cock or something, I enjoy JRPG's as much as WRPG's.

RPG's aren't about the fancy FMV's and stupid beautifully rendered cut scenes, it's about role-fucking playing. I "enjoyed" most of the FF titles but let's be honest they've been cranking out the same generic hashed up shitty plot for way too many games now but fanboys are too busy eating up anything that comes out SE even if its bad therefore SE really doesn't need to change their shit if they can sell million of copies of a terrible game.

FFXIII came out recently in Japan and so far most reviews are pretty negative citing it as the most linear and the only good parts are unlocked after 30 or so hours of gameplay which is pretty much near the end of the game. Basically you're put in a straight path and can't explore, can't backtrack, there's no towns you move from point a to z in a straight path.

tl;dr - dishes and chores.

I know that, I wanted to know what you didn't tear him a new asshole instead of just going "What?"

Proin Drakenzol · « **Reply #70 on:** January 09, 2010, 11:11:37 PM »

Quote from: fohfoh on January 09, 2010, 10:19:48 PM

Quote from: kardz on January 09, 2010, 08:49:28 PM
Quote from: fohfoh on January 05, 2010, 06:56:58 AM
Quote from: kardz on January 05, 2010, 05:41:20 AM
Quote from: TorturdChaos on January 04, 2010, 01:27:42 AM
Personally I think they are dying out. I guess I should clarify what I think of when I think RPG - because a lot of games list don't stick with me as RPG's. I'm thinking of the Final Fantasy's, Shadowhearts, Star Ocean, Chrono Trigger & Cross - and Kingdom Hearts (more or less) - games like that. While I love diablo 2, I don't really consider that style of game an RPG - nor do I consider Oblivion or Dragon Age an RPG - although I'm not sure what to call them. Nor are Devil May Cry or God of War style games and RPG in my opinion. More of an Action Adventure.

I actually was just thinking the the other day - man I haven't seen a good RPG in a long time. maybe its just that my definition of RPG hasn't changed since I was 13 or so and first played FF7 and was hooked. But I have agree my idea of a good classic RPG hasn't been put out in a while, and its rather depressing...

I mean when i look up RPG on GameFAQs i do see Baldur's Gate, Aion, Diablo 1,2 &3, Dragon Age, Fable and so forth- but that doesn't stick in the classic RPG category with me

EDIT
Also -
Making a clone of the mechanics of a game does not guarantee a great RPG (not hit or top seller, but great. It may be a top seller just because its riding the success of its predecessor)

Take Legend of Legia for example - first was was great IMO. The whole Arts system of combat was well thought out, and different from anything around at the time - and I think is what really made the game, without the Arts system it wasn't a block buster game. If they had tried the same game with a standard turn bases system, I think it would have failed.
Now take Legia 2. New story, same combat mechanics. But the story felt kinda lack luster i guess. Didn't hold up to the first one. Same innovative combat system, but not as great of a game.

alskndlsandslandasd s.a,ndsa

What the fuck did I just read?

Words.

So explain your confusion with the English language if you have them.

Did you even notice the part where I highlighted?

He just pretty much generalized that JRPG's are the only RPG's, & P&P rpg based games aren't "RPG".

Jesus christ the amount of pure ignorance in that post is enough to make any gamer who wasn't born in the 00's rage. I'm not a fanboy and I think all fanboys should really go on and suck a cock or something, I enjoy JRPG's as much as WRPG's.

RPG's aren't about the fancy FMV's and stupid beautifully rendered cut scenes, it's about role-fucking playing. I "enjoyed" most of the FF titles but let's be honest they've been cranking out the same generic hashed up shitty plot for way too many games now but fanboys are too busy eating up anything that comes out SE even if its bad therefore SE really doesn't need to change their shit if they can sell million of copies of a terrible game.

FFXIII came out recently in Japan and so far most reviews are pretty negative citing it as the most linear and the only good parts are unlocked after 30 or so hours of gameplay which is pretty much near the end of the game. Basically you're put in a straight path and can't explore, can't backtrack, there's no towns you move from point a to z in a straight path.

tl;dr - dishes and chores.

I know that, I wanted to know what you didn't tear him a new asshole instead of just going "What?"

I noticed this bullshit, too.

WTF kind of retard defines RPGs by those games that are furthest from the core of the genre?

Although, Diablo II isn't really much of an RPG, but primarily in the same ways that Japanese RPGs such as Final Fantasy aren't RPGs.

TheProfileth · « **Reply #71 on:** January 11, 2010, 06:08:39 AM »

Some one mentioned "fallout", "rpgs" and "dying"?
Well first of all I will not allow anyone to say that Fallout 3 is a good RPG unless you consider Brutal Legend a good RTS. It is a FPS with RPG trappings nothing more. Fallout 2 is still my favorite game of all time. If they had made Fallout 3 without the fallout license and under a different name my insane furious hate for Fallout 3 would not be as much. Another good RPG series is Heroes of Might and Magic, the 4th game is my favorite but they are all good. I don't think rpgs are dying I think all genres of games are dying and the modern consumer is to stupid to buy something that has quality, (fucking itouch, my ZuneHD is just as good) now I am just ranting I gotta go kill something to let off this anger.

kardz · « **Reply #72 on:** January 11, 2010, 02:46:36 PM »

Should have been called Post-Apcalyptic FPS with RPG elements: The Game

MammalSauce · « **Reply #73 on:** January 11, 2010, 02:49:04 PM »

Define "RPG".

AceHigh · « **Reply #74 on:** January 11, 2010, 04:48:09 PM »

Quote from: MammalSauce on January 11, 2010, 02:49:04 PM

Define "RPG".

Role Playing Game. Basically a game where you play a character which you create using a set of rules for combat and social interaction. That is by the way what real RPG are anyway, be it pen and paper or pc based.

I don't need to tell that in P&P the freedom and storyline is limited to imagination of players, although a gamemaster may limit that by guiding players back to his planned storyline if they stray too far.

Pc games that get closest to the roleplay element are the ones that have an open world, have a set of rules for skill usage, have a main storyline, yet do not restrict a player to it, have a stat improvement element and should have a bunch of side quests to give the illusion of the freedom the P&P actually have.

Many games have more or less of those things, for me the one that has most of them is the "truest" RPG. For example Elder scrolls games are all sandbox games and have stat buiding, but they are controlled like FPS which make them less "playing a role of your character" and more "take direct control of him and use your own reaction skills". On other hand games like Icewind Dale and Fallout Tactics have stat building and is oriented around combat neglecting the social aspect making them tactical games rather then RPG.
Ofcourse you have that piece of stinking shit of Japanese games made obviosly in a society of little free thinking, making you follow a narrow path, slaying many things containing only one fucking element of the RPG which is stat building and a few dialog option which will lead you to nothing other then one result anyway.

Quote from: TorturdChaos on January 04, 2010, 01:27:42 AM

I mean when i look up RPG on GameFAQs i do see Baldur's Gate, Aion, Diablo 1,2 &3, Dragon Age, Fable and so forth- but that doesn't stick in the classic RPG category with me

As I already strongly hinted in a post above this quote: Eat shit and die.

NaRu · « **Reply #75 on:** January 11, 2010, 05:47:59 PM »

The best RPG games were for the SNES....Those types of RPG are dead in my mind.

flyawave · « **Reply #76 on:** January 11, 2010, 06:00:07 PM »

Quote from: NaRu on January 11, 2010, 05:47:59 PM

The best RPG games were for the SNES....Those types of RPG are dead in my mind.

like the langrisser series?? (I only played the ps1 remakes, but still...was fun)

Proin Drakenzol · « **Reply #77 on:** January 11, 2010, 10:52:30 PM »

Quote from: NaRu on January 11, 2010, 05:47:59 PM

The best RPG games were for the SNES....Those types of RPG are dead in my mind.

Those weren't really RPGs.

You miss turn-based hack 'n' slash with a decent story.

fohfoh · « **Reply #78 on:** January 11, 2010, 11:24:21 PM »

Quote from: Proin Drakenzol on January 11, 2010, 10:52:30 PM

Quote from: NaRu on January 11, 2010, 05:47:59 PM
The best RPG games were for the SNES....Those types of RPG are dead in my mind.

Those weren't really RPGs.

You miss turn-based hack 'n' slash with a decent story.

Diablo and FF series (At least 7 to X/X-2) according to Ace's definition are probably the furthest. Demon's souls is probably much closer but still has the part where you are required to follow a narrow path (at least within the worlds). A true RPG is probably more rare nowadays due to the fact that most people nowadays are retards hyped up on sugar and caffeine with the attention span of a retarded chicken with avian flu and cannot keep an attention span for longer than 5 minutes without doing anything.

WOW... do we need to say anything? Or do we deem this game to go repeatedly fuck a cactus?

Morgia · « **Reply #79 on:** January 12, 2010, 10:13:51 AM »

Quote from: fohfoh on January 11, 2010, 11:24:21 PM

WOW... do we need to say anything? Or do we deem this game to go repeatedly fuck a cactus?

although the cactus idea seems really appealing... wow still has more roleplaying elements than FF or any JRPG for that matter... the fact alone that you can halfway choose the appearance of your char and your class etc takes them far ahead of "here play spiky hair guy x and spiky hair guy y that are childhood friends and form your group throughout the whole game now...just follow the road" ... at least you can choose *not* to fulfill certain quests in WoW, you can also choose to avoid certain ~~leveling~~ grinding areas altogether... and if you want to have some rpg like in p&p ...ah well... there's always the lesbo-elves in Goldshire XD (uhem... maybe you'll even find one of the rare players that like real rpg apart from the ero aspect - good luck *muahahahaha*) darn, it even has more rpg elements than some other games of the same genre like Aion... still... far too many aspects to hate the game nonetheless.