RPG's dying?

[Sosseres]

Role playing is a great way to get money when just starting out in a game. Assuming a game goes bronze -> silver -> gold you can usually get a few gold at the start by role playing well, at the very least you have more fun than grinding for a while. It worked in DAoC and EQ2. ^^

[flyawave]

the problem is that some of us were given snes games and told "This is an RPG!" and others were given FF and told "This is an RPG!" or shown Elder Scrolls Oblivion and told... you can see where I'm going.

I see two broad RPG types: the "play your story how you want" type and the "This is a story, play through it" and both have advantages over each other. this can apply to other genres as well. eg. metal gear is of the latter category or Fallout which comes under the former, but the main trend is that JRPGs are almost always the latter and to be honest I prefer it that way

[MammalSauce]

Role Playing Game. Basically a game where you play a character which you create using a set of rules for combat and social interaction. That is by the way what real RPG are anyway, be it pen and paper or pc based.

I don't need to tell that in P&P the freedom and storyline is limited to imagination of players, although a gamemaster may limit that by guiding players back to his planned storyline if they stray too far.

Pc games that get closest to the roleplay element are the ones that have an open world, have a set of rules for skill usage, have a main storyline, yet do not restrict a player to it, have a stat improvement element and should have a bunch of side quests to give the illusion of the freedom the P&P actually have.

Many games have more or less of those things, for me the one that has most of them is the "truest" RPG. For example Elder scrolls games are all sandbox games and have stat buiding, but they are controlled like FPS which make them less "playing a role of your character" and more "take direct control of him and use your own reaction skills". On other hand games like Icewind Dale and Fallout Tactics have stat building and is oriented around combat neglecting the social aspect making them tactical games rather then RPG.
Ofcourse you have that piece of stinking shit of Japanese games made obviosly in a society of little free thinking, making you follow a narrow path, slaying many things containing only one fucking element of the RPG which is stat building and a few dialog option which will lead you to nothing other then one result anyway.

Japanese games do tend to be linear, but many of them still contain the makings of a good RPG. I played Dragon Quest VIII some time ago and it actually possessed most of the qualities that you listed: a nonrestrictive main storyline, an open world, side quests, a set of rules for skill usage, stat improvements, not to mention things like RNGs and good ol' stat-based equipment. I think this makes it as much an RPG as any western game, even if it doesn't let you create your own character, let you loose right from the get go, or have dialogue/story that branches off into a dozen different directions.

But, hey, that's just me.

[fohfoh]

Legend of Zelda.... hey... where's the char creation? I MUST CREATE CHAR!

/sarcasm off

[Proin Drakenzol]

Legend of Zelda.... hey... where's the char creation? I MUST CREATE CHAR!

/sarcasm off

Legend of Zelda has only had one offering in its entire saga that was classified by Nintendo as an RPG (Action/RPG, iirc), and that was Zelda II.

All others are classified as Action/Adventure.

[TorturdChaos]

Personally I think they are dying out.  I guess I should clarify what I think of when I think RPG - because a lot of games list don't stick with me as RPG's.  I'm thinking of the Final Fantasy's, Shadowhearts, Star Ocean, Chrono Trigger & Cross - and Kingdom Hearts (more or less) - games like that. While I love diablo 2, I don't really consider that style of game an RPG - nor do I consider Oblivion or Dragon Age an RPG - although I'm not sure what to call them.  Nor are Devil May Cry or God of War style games and RPG in my opinion.  More of an Action Adventure.

I actually was just thinking the the other day - man I haven't seen a good RPG in a long time.  maybe its just that my definition of RPG hasn't changed since I was 13 or so and first played FF7 and was hooked.  But I have agree my idea of a good classic RPG hasn't been put out in a while, and its rather depressing...

I mean when i look up RPG on GameFAQs i do see Baldur's Gate, Aion, Diablo 1,2 &3, Dragon Age, Fable  and so forth- but that doesn't stick in the classic RPG category with me


EDIT
Also -
Making a clone of the mechanics of a game does not guarantee a great RPG (not hit or top seller, but great.  It may be a top seller just because its riding the success of its predecessor)

Take Legend of Legia for example - first was was great IMO.  The whole Arts system of combat was well thought out, and different from anything around at the time - and I think is what really made the game, without the Arts system it wasn't a block buster game.  If they had tried the same game with a standard turn bases system, I think it would have failed.
Now take Legia 2.  New story, same combat mechanics.  But the story felt kinda lack luster i guess.  Didn't hold up to the first one.  Same innovative combat system, but not as great of a game.

alskndlsandslandasd s.a,ndsa

What the fuck did I just read?

Words.

So explain your confusion with the English language if you have them.

Did you even notice the part where I highlighted?

He just pretty much generalized that JRPG's are the only RPG's, & P&P rpg based games aren't "RPG".

Jesus christ the amount of pure ignorance in that post is enough to make any gamer who wasn't born in the 00's rage. I'm not a fanboy and I think all fanboys should really go on and suck a cock or something, I enjoy JRPG's as much as WRPG's.

RPG's aren't about the fancy FMV's and stupid beautifully rendered cut scenes, it's about role-fucking playing. I "enjoyed" most of the FF titles but let's be honest they've been cranking out the same generic hashed up shitty plot for way too many games now but fanboys are too busy eating up anything that comes out SE even if its bad therefore SE really doesn't need to change their shit if they can sell million of copies of a terrible game.

FFXIII came out recently in Japan and so far most reviews are pretty negative citing it as the most linear and the only good parts are unlocked after 30 or so hours of gameplay which is pretty much near the end of the game. Basically you're put in a straight path and can't explore, can't backtrack, there's no towns you move from point a to z in a straight path.

tl;dr - dishes and chores.

"He just pretty much generalized that JRPG's are the only RPG's, & P&P rpg based games aren't "RPG"."

I wasn't saying that is the definition of RPG that everyone has to use nor is that all the RPG's out here, but those are the style of games that come to mind when I think of an RPG.  FF7 was the first RPG I played - I loved it.  It was like playing through a book.  It had me hooked on that style of games, that sub-section of RPG's.  So when someone says RPG - that style of game is the first thing to pop into my mind.  Oblivion, dragon age, diablo, MMO's - all of those are still in the RPG category, and I enjoyed some of them, but they are not what come to mind when you mention RPG.  I know my idea of an RPG is a very narrow portion of what is traditionally categorized as RPG - but its what I like to play.

This guy put it a lot better than i can:

the problem is that some of us were given snes games and told "This is an RPG!" and others were given FF and told "This is an RPG!" or shown Elder Scrolls Oblivion and told... you can see where I'm going.

I see two broad RPG types: the "play your story how you want" type and the "This is a story, play through it" and both have advantages over each other. this can apply to other genres as well. eg. metal gear is of the latter category or Fallout which comes under the former, but the main trend is that JRPGs are almost always the latter and to be honest I prefer it that way

So yes I like JRGP's.  That is what comes to mind when anyone mentions RPG.  Those are the type of  RPG's I like to play. And to answer the original question of this thread, I see that that JRPG seem to be dying out - and from re-reading the whole thread again, that seems to be general consensus.

[Sosseres]

I am of the opposite opinion of rpgs dying out. They are genre merging with shooters/action/arcade and so on. The stories in those are starting to become very good while allowing a high grade of customisation. They are essentially an rpg with most of the tactic/strategy taken out in favour of a higher pace of action.

There are still RPGs being made, a decent amount, but the cost of producing them compared to many other genres means fewer games are released now. The ones that are released are generally high quality. At least that is my opinion.

[flyawave]

I was first shown a jrpg as my first rpg so as torturdchaos says it's the type that comes to mind... so yeah, jrpg's (and strategy rpg's like ff tactics or langrisser or advancedwars) are dying in favor of (in my opinnion) less enjoyable fpsrpg's etc (fallout is an exeption to the rule that fps+rpg dont mix)

It was like playing through a book.

and that's why it's AWESOME

[Carnivus]

After playing ME2,I can say it is dying out,at least at the beginning of this year.The RPG system was totally toned down to a simple one,ME1 had a great system.I feel that EA had some involvement,I really don't see Bioware doing this.Everything that made ME1 great was castrated or completely removed in ME2.It really darkens my judgement of the overall game,since I love to see what happened to characters after some time.

But now I'm just dissecting a game that deserved better.

Too many shooters appear each year,but RPGs?Just 1-2.That's why they're so good,because they're rare,good and the most recompensing and over-whelming games out there.I am,of course,talking about Western RPGs,since my history with JRPGs revolves around Pokemon games.

[Nikaido]

I really didn't like FF 11's system. The whole, having to walk up to your enemy thing annoyed me. I'm one of those people who plays games for the story first. Gameplay is second on the list.

[MammalSauce]

As far as first-person action RPGs go, I loved the Elder Scrolls series. I thought Bethesda's take on the Fallout series was a bit of a stinker though.

[Stsin]

RPGs are stronger than ever.  People are playing that I never would have thought possible.  I'm talking about MMOs.  Look at the millions of subscribers currently playing WoW.  Have to give Blizzard credit for joining diehard D&Ders and casual mothers/sisters alike on one game... unlike other MMOs.  They are a major reason why there are less stand alone RPG games being released.

I'm on my second play through with Dragon Age, and I love it.  But the side-quests feel way too similar to what I did in WoW.  Heck, Bioware isn't hiding that much is copied from it, like the Dwarven city being like Ironforge, to the PC interface and controls being quite similar.  And they stepped away from the D&D rules by doing it, unlike NWN.  But the good thing about Dragon Age is that there is an end.  Which adds closure and needs a good story to be satisfying.  Though with Dragon Age you are able to take many different paths with different outcomes later like Witcher, without feeling they are punishing you for not following some set morals.  And another good thing about Dragon Age is the toolset (sorry console users).  If don't like the combat rules, change it.  With games like this, I spend more time with the toolset than actual playing it

If it weren't for the MMOs, I'm sure there would be many more RPGs being released.  Because with most of us, our roleplaying appetites are being satisfied with online play.  Because you can't really compete with interaction with other live players.  D&D was never meant to be a solo game.

[DeadSpaceX]

i wouldn't consider me2 an rpg...it has rpg elements, but it's primarily a fps in gameplay, in overall concept it's like most of the rest of biowares releases (i love bioware btw)...a story you play through. Even most FF's tend to be story more than role play driven. You're stuck as the people they choose for you.

Dragons Age should have been open world...it wasn't, fails as an RPG for that reason and quite a few others. Oblivion, Morrowind both have the elements of RPG's the only thing i disliked was the leveled lists(and oblivion being dumbed down for consoles). And my opinions are not the case of what i was introduced to first. rpg's have been my favorite genre...and it does seem they're dying or being replaced by mmo's.

Main quest, side quests, open world, choices, paths, possibility of getting your ass kicked if you wander into the wrong place, hidden things, hidden places, making allies, making enemies, interaction with the enviroment and the population of the world, treasure, leveling and getting stronger, skills, magic, tech...most everything that mmo's do now...

Kinda depressing writing this, i would like to see a good standalone rpg come out...and while i wait...i play mmo's :/

[MammalSauce]

Mass Effect 2 is a third person action RPG/sex simulator.

[flyawave]

^ so true... sex sim that is.

[Sosseres]

Dragons Age should have been open world...it wasn't, fails as an RPG for that reason and quite a few others. Oblivion, Morrowind both have the elements of RPG's the only thing i disliked was the leveled lists(and oblivion being dumbed down for consoles). And my opinions are not the case of what i was introduced to first. rpg's have been my favorite genre...and it does seem they're dying or being replaced by mmo's.

Kinda funny that I liked neither Oblivion or Morrowind due to them being to open and thus losing my interest.

[fohfoh]

I think RPGs are going to converge with others genres then once it gets totally weird and "screwy" it will begin to go back and "become pure" again. (We're in the beginning stages of the "weird and screwy" imo)

[MammalSauce]

^ the fuck?

[flyawave]

^^ makes sense

[southerndoom]

RPGs are not dying but morso evolving.
RPGs have either gone the route of a Final Fantasy.
Lots of cuts scenes,tons of dialoge making it more
of playing an interactive movie than a game.These days
very Anime styled.

Then you have the Dragonage style rpgs.More of a
D&D style system.More of a realistic style look and
turned based can be toggled with space bar.Party based
and it allows you to make your own desicions.Wanna be good guy ok
wanna be an asshole thats ok to.You decide the outcome of things
by your actions.


Then you have the newer hybrids.
Borderlands-FPS/RPG
Diablo-action rpg
Fallout
Oblivion-Action rpg meets skill based system.

MMORPGS-really a catagory on thier own these days.



So no RPGs are not dying its just not Dragon Warrior or Phantasy Star anymore.
Which is both a good and bad thing.