Author Topic: CoreAVC - Curse or Blessing? (Read 8441 times)

namaiki · « **Reply #20 on:** February 16, 2010, 12:00:42 AM »

Yes, limiting it to 16-235 is good for small file sizes, that and not everyone want the higher quality.
No. There is no reason to expand a 16-235 source to 0-255.

Renderer should always output to 0 - 255. The thing with Nvidia though, you also have to set 0-255 in the Nvidia Control Panel. So set 0-255 in the codec, in the renderer, and in the graphic card properties.
MPC-HC's default EVR-Custom settings are generally correct and will override nvidia control panel.

I have found no difference between outputting 0-255 and 16-235 on my netbook monitor, same quality.
Intel graphics drivers do not support the change.

Haali? It keeps a buffer, so where VMR9 would skip frames due to lack of CPU power, Haali just uses the buffer. Pretty much, where VMR9 would skip a ton, Haali does not.
VMR9 can have a rendering queue if you use FFShow video. Well, honestly I haven't checked for differences.

Best for software decoding is Haali Splitter + CoreAVC + Haali Renderer.
You mean on old computers, right?

zCoreAVC should bypass the limits on XP/2003 systems. Although, I never checked.
I haven't checked myself, but I have heard that it doesn't.

I have W7, so EVR.
In MPC-HC EVR and EVR-Custom both have their merits.

For me DTV-DVD misbehaves a lot more than MPC's Internal Codec,
For instance, what?

I try to avoid CoreAVC, because I some videos will not have enough CPU power to play without skipping at 50% CPU cap which I use when on battery.
So you use MPC-HC's internal DXVA filter instead?
heh. I'm using CoreAVC in software mode even though I have a GeForece 9600M GT.

Udedenkz · « **Reply #21 on:** February 16, 2010, 01:31:29 AM »

Well if the source is 16-235, it is up to the end-user to expand it. But, if the source is good quality (0-255) then it makes sense limiting the luma range to decrease file size.

Software Decoding of H.264 is legacy. There is no reason, at all, to use it anymore with modern setups - it would be counter intuitive (what the point of new hardware if you ain't gonna use it?). So yeah, when I talk about software that is what I actually mean.

I use EVR (Custom) as I need subtitles. The new Sync Renderer (I think it will replace EVR Custom soon, not sure) that MPC:HC introduced seems liberal at skipping frames for no good reason.

Panning scenes. Motion scenes, stop-go effect - lagg effect. No clue why, only certain videos. They either work with internal or CoreAVC.

Well I try to avoid it, it is my "Plan B". If not for that CoreAVC has no problems.

namaiki · « **Reply #22 on:** February 16, 2010, 01:37:39 AM »

Software Decoding of H.264 is legacy. There is no reason, at all, to use it anymore with modern setups - it would be counter intuitive (what the point of new hardware if you ain't gonna use it?). So yeah, when I talk about software that is what I actually mean.
I use MadVR as the built in scaler is most convenient for me to use. My video card cannot do CoreAVC + CUDA and MadVR at the same time. :p

The new Sync Renderer (I think it will replace EVR Custom soon, not sure) that MPC:HC introduced seems liberal at skipping frames for no good reason.
Bleh. I can't seem to figure out how to set it up either.

Udedenkz · « **Reply #23 on:** February 16, 2010, 01:43:28 AM »

I had 8600M GT and it could handle 1080p just fine. And I used CUDA for folding@home. I am not sure why 9600M GT would not be able to, I mean, ION is based on the 9xxx series.

EDIT: Either the 8400M GS or 8300M GS is the the lowest GPU that Nvidia says can handle True High Definition.

namaiki · « **Reply #24 on:** February 16, 2010, 01:44:40 AM »

Quote from: Udedenkz on February 16, 2010, 01:43:28 AM

I had 8600M GT and it could handle 1080p just fine. And I used CUDA for folding@home. I am not sure why 9600M GT would not be able to, I mean, ION is based on the 9xxx series.

You haven't tried using MadVR, have you.. d;

The 9600M GT is kind of powerful enough, but my video card only has 256MB VRAM which is not enough to run MadVR and CoreAVC + CUDA at the same time.

Udedenkz · « **Reply #25 on:** February 16, 2010, 01:54:10 AM »

Yeah, I haven't tried MadVR. I am satisfied with Bilinear Resizer, 0-255 output, deblocking, and EVR in terms of quality.
From what I read MadVR is for videophiles. I for one can't notice the difference between HD and THD unless I am close to the monitor.

ION uses shared memory - up to 879MB ATM if dxdiag is correct so I might try it. Because now you have go me interested!

EDIT: I think, it is a CoreAVC + MadVR issue and not CoreAVC + MadVR + 9600M GT issue. Software mode CoreAVC + MadVR does not work for me... :/

vuzedome · « **Reply #26 on:** February 16, 2010, 09:09:23 AM »

~~My madVR is grey-ed out, what limitation is this?~~
Never mind, just found out the reason.

namaiki · « **Reply #27 on:** February 16, 2010, 11:23:38 AM »

Quote from: Udedenkz on February 16, 2010, 01:54:10 AM

I think, it is a CoreAVC + MadVR issue and not CoreAVC + MadVR + 9600M GT issue. Software mode CoreAVC + MadVR does not work for me... :/

What is the issue? Make sure that CoreAVC is outputting YV12.

Temuthril · « **Reply #28 on:** February 16, 2010, 06:29:10 PM »

Quote from: Udedenkz on February 16, 2010, 01:31:29 AM

Software Decoding of H.264 is legacy. There is no reason, at all, to use it anymore with modern setups

So what advantages does hardware h264 decoding have over software decoding?

Udedenkz · « **Reply #29 on:** February 17, 2010, 12:40:51 AM »

DXVA advantages are kinda obvious, I would think.
No need for a powerful CPU. No need to upgrade, just update the GPU (and you don't need an expensive GPU either for DXVA) and save some $$$. Most GPUs on modern computers are capable, so it would simply be proper usage of hardware. Otherwise, if you don't game, and don't use DXVA, then well your GPU is not being used - ie - money wasted. CPU is virtually idle, so more power to multitasking. Video options, such as colors, luma range, noise and sharpness are present in the control panel for your GPU and if you ain't satisfied with those, CoreAVC offers a bunch more options that might be of interest.
It is kinda like using a folding@home client, if you have Nvidia, you use two clients, a SMP Client for the MultiCore CPU and a CUDA client for the GPU. You can obviously use just the SMP client alone, but that would not be anywhere as productive.

Quote from: namaiki on February 16, 2010, 11:23:38 AM

What is the issue? Make sure that CoreAVC is outputting YV12.

Tried that, no go. MPC crashes when CoreAVC (software or hardware) + MadVR. So, my guess, is that MadVR is just buggy. $:-\$

namaiki · « **Reply #30 on:** February 17, 2010, 12:50:22 AM »

Quote from: Udedenkz on February 17, 2010, 12:40:51 AM

Tried that, no go. MPC crashes when CoreAVC (software or hardware) + MadVR. So, my guess, is that MadVR is just buggy. $:-\$

What is the crash information? What module? What is the resolution of the file? VSFilter involved? :p

Udedenkz · « **Reply #31 on:** February 17, 2010, 01:08:24 AM »

Quote from: namaiki on February 17, 2010, 12:50:22 AM

What is the crash information? What module? What is the resolution of the file? VSFilter involved? :p

It just crashes - Windows Error Report Screen Pops Up, no external codecs - I only use CoreAAC and CoreAVC, any file that is picked up by CoreAVC.
I wouldn't really want to use MadVR anyway (I just tried it because, well you said it didn't work w. CoreAVC, so I confirmed it - it doesn't work), for multiple reasons.
EVR FTW.

I am thinking about trying CoreAVC + Haali Renderer + High Resolution Animated Subtitles to see if that works.

namaiki · « **Reply #32 on:** February 17, 2010, 01:11:52 AM »

Quote from: Udedenkz on February 17, 2010, 01:08:24 AM

I just tried it because, well you said it didn't work w. CoreAVC, so I confirmed it - it doesn't work

It works in software and in CUDA. Just, in CUDA there is major lag due to my lack of video ram.

I personally would not use Haali's Renderer because I hate bicubic.

Udedenkz · « **Reply #33 on:** February 17, 2010, 01:29:26 AM »

Odd, I am using Home Cinema 1.3.1613.0 at the moment and no luck - it just gets stuck.

~~There seems to be something just wrong with the subtitle animation at the ending theme 1 of To-Love-Ru (DVD) as Haali didn't fix it. Will test more...~~
EDIT: Never mind, animations are just ****ing CPU heavy, more than DTS audio downsampling....

namaiki · « **Reply #34 on:** February 17, 2010, 01:34:36 AM »

Odd, I am using Home Cinema 1.3.1613.0 at the moment and no luck - it just gets stuck.
I'm using MadVR in conjunction with CCCP(ffdshow audio, (my) coreavc 2.0, vsfilter, mpc-hc 1281 32-bit). No doubt that MadVR is still buggy though. Try to use a Forceware that is 18x.xx

There seems to be something just wrong with the subtitle animation at the ending theme 1 of To-Love-Ru (DVD) as Haali didn't fix it. Will test more...
What is this to do with anything? Is this subtitle animation hard or soft subbed? What subtitle renderer? What video renderer? What video decoder? What Trouble release?

Udedenkz · « **Reply #35 on:** February 17, 2010, 02:08:39 AM »

I use internal MPC subtitle renderer. As long as I have subs at 800*600 max and no animation stuff keeps up, I don't think subtitle renderer has CPU specific optimizations - that might have helped.

1281 as in 1.3. 1281 ? That is kinda seriously outdated. Same goes with those drivers.

namaiki · « **Reply #36 on:** February 17, 2010, 02:12:52 AM »

I use internal MPC subtitle renderer. As long as I have subs at 800*600 max and no animation stuff keeps up, I don't think subtitle renderer has CPU specific optimizations - that might have helped.
MPC's internal sub renderer only applies to EVR-Custom, Haali's Renderer, VMRx rendererless. :p
for MadVR you will need to use VSFilter if you want subtitles. You should really check it out (the scaling).

1281 as in 1.3. 1281 ? That is kinda seriously outdated. Same goes with those drivers.
Is it outdated? Yes. Have I experienced any problems? Not yet.

My laptop/computer has first gen Hybrid Graphics which means little driver support.

fohfoh · « **Reply #37 on:** February 23, 2010, 07:43:53 AM »

Hybrid graphics as in... turbo cache? I'm using an intel 945/Nvidia Go 7400 combo. (Yeah, the drivers suck horribly I can't find anything on Nvida website and intel website. The best drivers I had were the ones I got from win 7 beta windows update.)

In all honesty, there should be no reason why a P series intel will have issues with 1080p.

I have a laptop that uses C2D T7200 @ 2.0 Ghz 3 GB ram and I can watch 1080p just fine with CoreAvc. Mind you, I use zoomplayer instead of MPC or those other players. I did note that using coreavc took crappy performance with CCCP + w/e to something like 20-30% load while watching 1080p. Mind you I had Tidan teach me how to set it up.

So essentially I'm using Zoomplayer + CoreAvc w/ AC3 Filter configuration and Haali Media Splitter.

EDIT: Did a test run...

Idles at 50% usage and this is with 4 other programs running. (Chrome, Mozilla FF, winamp and WLM messenger)
File: Evangelion_1.11_You _Are_(Not)_Alone_(2009)_[1080p,BluRay,x264,DTS-ES]_-_THORA

Did I also mention I'm using the integrated graphics card?

Vista says my graphics chip is rated a 2.6 in experience index.
(Mobile Intel(R) 945 Express chipset)

So... whatever you're doing... I think OP has settings issues with CoreAvc.

I don't mean to say I'm an expert on anything... I'm just saying with my set up CoreAvc is a huge blessing.

namaiki · « **Reply #38 on:** February 23, 2010, 08:00:00 AM »

Hybrid graphics as in... turbo cache?
Hybrid graphics as in 9600M GT/4500MHD

I did note that using coreavc took crappy performance with CCCP + w/e to something like 20-30% load while watching 1080p.
Like what? What's the resolution of your screen and the video renderer you were using in MPC-HC (though I guess it doesn't really matter as you seem to be satisfied with your setup)

Did I also mention I'm using the integrated graphics card?
Doesn't really matter as your CPU is doing the decoding.

fohfoh · « **Reply #39 on:** February 23, 2010, 09:14:25 AM »

I use zoom player, not MPC HC. Full screened. Screen resolution... 1280*800 I think? I dunno, I didn't really like MPC HC. Light... yes... but just not my cup of tea settings and setup wise.

Latter part was to OP. His setup is far superior to mine, so he should have been able to play with no problem at all.