Author Topic: R1 and R2 Anime Questions  (Read 2922 times)

Offline Xemnarth

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R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« on: January 19, 2010, 05:24:08 AM »
- Are all R1 (US region) anime necessarily dubbed? And when there is a dub of one anime, does its title usually change? (Example: Familiar of Zero, Fullmetal Alchemist, Fighting Spirit).

- Are all R2 (JP region) anime necessarily not dubbed? Do they always retain the original Japanese title?

These are my questions for now. Informative replies are appreciated.

Offline Xiong Chiamiov

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #1 on: January 19, 2010, 05:56:20 AM »
- Are all R1 (US region) anime necessarily dubbed? And when there is a dub of one anime, does its title usually change? (Example: Familiar of Zero, Fullmetal Alchemist, Fighting Spirit).
No, and no.
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Offline kureshii

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #2 on: January 19, 2010, 06:15:45 AM »
1) Clannad didn't get an English dub.
2) Kite didn't get a title change (unless you consider katakana->english to be a title change)
3) I don't see any reason why domestic-release Japanese DVDs/BDs would require dubbing in any language other than Japanese (unless they intentionally included other languages in the script). But there are international releases that are both Japanese&English-dubbed, e.g. the upcoming Gundam Unicorn.

Offline Xemnarth

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #3 on: January 19, 2010, 06:17:21 AM »
So..
There are R1 (US) Anime that are not dubbed.
There are R2 (Japan) Anime that have English dub and title? (like Afro Samurai?)
« Last Edit: January 19, 2010, 06:18:59 AM by Xemnarth »

Offline Zalis116

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #4 on: January 19, 2010, 06:25:02 AM »
- Are all R1 (US region) anime necessarily dubbed? And when there is a dub of one anime, does its title usually change? (Example: Familiar of Zero, Fullmetal Alchemist, Fighting Spirit).

- Are all R2 (JP region) anime necessarily not dubbed? Do they always retain the original Japanese title?

These are my questions for now. Informative replies are appreciated.

There have always been a few sub-only releases here and there, often for older shows where the materials necessary for dubbing (often isolated Music & Effects audio tracks) could not be found on the Japanese side. Or where they didn't think the expense of dubbing was warranted or necessary.

The growing trend in recent years has been to release "niche" titles sub-only. Media-Blasters, Bandai, Nozomi (Rightstuf), and whatever remains of ADV have adopted this strategy. With the ongoing decline in anime sales and the economic recession, they were finding that the additional sales generated by English dubs on some titles did not recoup the costs of dubbing. So all you who say "dubs suck, I don't want to pay for something I don't want," you won't have to do so on many shows now and in the future.

As for title changes... how is "Familiar of Zero" a title change? If you start with the original title "Zero no Tsukaima," and go with the principle that "A no B" in Japanese = "A's B" or "The B of A" in English, "Familiar of Zero" is a perfectly logical, straightforward translation. Titles tend to be more accessible to the average consumer when they're not a string of incomprehensible foreign words. "Fullmetal Alchemist" was a title the Japanese came up with, and appears alongside the "Hagane no Renkinjutsushi" kanji in the in-show logos. "Alchemist of Steel" just doesn't sound as cool. Quite often, the Japanese will have a title in mind that they will make the licensee use for the English release. Like with Kimi ga Nozomu Eien, "Rumbling Hearts" was a subtitle of one of the PS2 games, and that's what they made Funimation use for the English title of the anime.

"Hajime no Ippo" is a pun that doesn't translate well, so that title got changed. Generally, if a title can be translated in a concise way that's not overly-lame, they will translate the title. If they can't, like with wordy titles such as "Mahou Tsukai ni Taisetsu na Koto," they'll use a different title of their or the Japanese licensor's choosing. And in many cases, the titles are left untranslated, for better or worse. See this page.

As for R2J releases, I don't see why they wouldn't use the original titles. Sometimes they will include English dubs, but only for shows where English dubs were already made elsewhere. The Utawarerumono and Kanon Blu-Rays, for example, include ADV's English dubs. And of course, there are titles like Afro Samurai and Vampire Hunter D that were originally done in English.

IIRC they chose not to ruin, butcher, or destroy Afro Samurai by redubbing it into Japanese with two-bit seiyuu like Takehito Koyasu and Norio Wakamoto that only voice act because they can't get any other acting work. Because you can never replace Samuel L Jackson. Plus, they didn't increase the costs for Japanese consumers by adding a Japanese audio track they didn't want, thus putting Afro Samurai DVDs/BDs in line with the reasonable, totally non-ripoff prices of R2J anime DVDs that don't have foreign dubs  :P


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Offline Havoc10K

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #5 on: January 19, 2010, 09:50:03 AM »
1) Clannad didn't get an English dub.

thank the [insert your deity you worship here] for that !

Offline Crimson13

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #6 on: January 19, 2010, 04:06:54 PM »
1) Clannad didn't get an English dub.

thank the [insert your deity you worship here] for that !

*grumble* it means I have to wrestle with my wife to watch it on the big tv.

Offline kurandoinu

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #7 on: January 19, 2010, 04:56:56 PM »
Doesn't R2 cover more than just Japan DVD wise? Pretty sure the UK is an R2 area as well

Offline Nazo

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2010, 05:09:14 PM »
Doesn't R2 cover more than just Japan DVD wise? Pretty sure the UK is an R2 area as well
That's correct, although Europe's R2 is done in PAL whereas Japan's R2 is done in NTSC. But when it comes to anime, generally R2 refers to Japanese R2s (sometimes R2J is used to differentiate).

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Offline Zalis116

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2010, 06:13:54 PM »
1) Clannad didn't get an English dub.

thank the [insert your deity you worship here] for that !
Why? How would the existence of a Clannad dub affect you? Who's going to hold a gun to your head and force you to listen to it?

And why assume that a Clannad dub would be bad? When it comes to other Key shows, ADV's dubs for Air and Kanon 2006 were both good. If they'd gotten the same director back, I'm sure Clannad's would've been fine as well.


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Offline Nazo

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2010, 08:46:33 PM »
1) Clannad didn't get an English dub.

thank the [insert your deity you worship here] for that !
Why? How would the existence of a Clannad dub affect you? Who's going to hold a gun to your head and force you to listen to it?

And why assume that a Clannad dub would be bad? When it comes to other Key shows, ADV's dubs for Air and Kanon 2006 were both good. If they'd gotten the same director back, I'm sure Clannad's would've been fine as well.
I agree really. The only ones who are allowed to complain about dubs are those that are forced to listen to them and hate them, or those that buy the R1s and have to pay a higher price due to the dub cost factored into the pricing of the DVDs >_>

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Offline Daiz

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #11 on: January 20, 2010, 07:51:55 AM »
two-bit seiyuu like Takehito Koyasu and Norio Wakamoto that only voice act because they can't get any other acting work. Because you can never replace Samuel L Jackson.

BEST BE JOKING DUDE

Offline Temuthril

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #12 on: January 21, 2010, 04:12:45 AM »
1) Clannad didn't get an English dub.

thank the [insert your deity you worship here] for that !
Why? How would the existence of a Clannad dub affect you? Who's going to hold a gun to your head and force you to listen to it?

And why assume that a Clannad dub would be bad? When it comes to other Key shows, ADV's dubs for Air and Kanon 2006 were both good. If they'd gotten the same director back, I'm sure Clannad's would've been fine as well.
I agree really. The only ones who are allowed to complain about dubs are those that are forced to listen to them and hate them, or those that buy the R1s and have to pay a higher price due to the dub cost factored into the pricing of the DVDs >_>

Japanese DVD prices, etc.

Offline Zalis116

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #13 on: January 21, 2010, 09:26:04 AM »
two-bit seiyuu like Takehito Koyasu and Norio Wakamoto that only voice act because they can't get any other acting work. Because you can never replace Samuel L Jackson.

BEST BE JOKING DUDE
Don't worry, I am. Note the :P on the end. But I wouldn't want to explain the whole joke.

As for "dubs make anime more expensive," the question is, "just how much more"? At typical rightstuf.com studio sale pricing, a $50 13-ep sub-only set (like what Nozomi sells) will sell for $30. A $60 Funimation dual-language set will go for $36. $6 / 13 eps = $0.46 per episode. Is that really such a burdensome extra cost to bear?


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Offline kureshii

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #14 on: January 21, 2010, 11:01:09 AM »
Could also think of it as the dubbing process adding 20% to the price, by the same measurement. I don't really care if there's an english dub track or not, as long as the DVD volume is at an acceptable price for me.

But if that 20% premium for dubbing is accurate, I'd be glad to have it waived; I'm still ordering and waiting on Marimite (4 seasons) and Aria (3 seasons) R1 DVDs, 20% of that is enough to buy another 1 or 2 series.

I understand that these R1 releases are primarily aimed at the N.American consumer market and so will always be tailored towards their needs, but as an “international customer”* who doesn't care much for American dubbing, I’d naturally pick the option that gives me what I want at a cheaper price.

* by international customer I mean “customer who has to read the International Orders part of shipping policies of any online retail site”

Offline Xemnarth

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2010, 06:04:39 AM »
Thanks everyone for the input. :)

Next question is...

How do I differentiate between subbed-only R1 releases and R2J fansubed releases? Through subs source? Are there other indicators? Not all fansubs directly tell the region of their DVD releases.

Examples include, Clannad, Kashimashi: Girl meets Girl, Girl`s High School Students and Otoboku: Maidens are Falling for Me.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2010, 06:09:41 AM by Xemnarth »

Offline kureshii

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2010, 06:40:37 AM »
R1 DVD releases will have the names of the staff involved in the R1 production, and these are almost all English names.

If the credits have been cut out, you'll just have to ask the encoder/raw-provider.

Offline Xemnarth

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2010, 07:31:30 AM »
Thanks for an informative answer, kureshii.

Offline glordit

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2010, 01:20:31 PM »
Thanks everyone for the input. :)

Next question is...

How do I differentiate between subbed-only R1 releases and R2J fansubed releases? Through subs source? Are there other indicators? Not all fansubs directly tell the region of their DVD releases.

Examples include, Clannad, Kashimashi: Girl meets Girl, Girl`s High School Students and Otoboku: Maidens are Falling for Me.

I have noticed with R1 DVD's they switch the intro/closing credit's with english, but some keep the Kanji names. R2 as far as I know is just like the original TV broadcast put onto DVD/Blu-Ray.

Offline Zalis116

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Re: R1 and R2 Anime Questions
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2010, 02:03:33 PM »
Thanks everyone for the input. :)

Next question is...

How do I differentiate between subbed-only R1 releases and R2J fansubbed releases? Through subs source? Are there other indicators? Not all fansubs directly tell the region of their DVD releases.

Examples include, Clannad, Kashimashi: Girl meets Girl, Girl`s High School Students and Otoboku: Maidens are Falling for Me.
I have noticed with R1 DVD's they switch the intro/closing credit's with english, but some keep the Kanji names. R2 as far as I know is just like the original TV broadcast put onto DVD/Blu-Ray.
I've seen about four methods used for credits on R1 DVDs:

1) Change everything to English
2) Leave kanji credits, but add English credits as hard or softsubs
3) Leave kanji credits, add extra credit scroll in English after each episode
4) Leave kanji credits, add one aggregate credit scroll in English at the end of each disc (often not seen in rips)

Other ways to tell:

Date of release -- does the release predate the R1 DVD release? If so, then it's R2.
Release group -- has the group in question ever fansubbed anything? A good way to tell this is to see if they've ever released anything that's not licensed in R1. If they haven't, then the release is probably R1.
Subtitle style and presentation -- vobsubs are an obvious R1 giveaway, but even R1-rip groups that OCR and re-style DVD subs generally* don't change the subs themselves beyond basic spell-check. So in most cases, lack of karaoke effects, plainer typesetting, and a higher degree of localization = R1. Of course, you can't really judge this ahead of time without DLing an ep.

*KAA would be an exception, you may have to check the release threads in their forum to see if their releases are R2 + edited fansubs from some other group, R2 source + edited R1 subs, or R1 source + edited R1 subs.


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