AMD confusion (and nonchalant intel talk)

[GoGeTa006]

once more AMD. . .anyways the word got around and some random lady friend of a friend of my boss's wife called me and told me she wants to buy a computer off me. So im in newegg right now searching. . .looking at some nice deals (i found an i5 combo really nice). . .anyways I was looking for a "budget-yet-nice" PC. . .which means AMD. . .so I grabbed my pants and read and re-read the socket AM3 or AM2. . .anyways
Im looking at the motherboard's support and theres this thing that keeps bothering me, see if someone here can help me (i couldnt find it on google)

difference betweent Athlon II x4 and Athlon x4 (or phenom II x4 and phenom x4)

cause say, a motherboard says:


compatible with Athlon II / Phenom II
or (another mb)
Athlon x4 / Athlon x3

does that mean its NOT compatible with Athlon II x4 ?

oh btw

(click to show/hide)

if anyone interested in what happened in the finale of that RMA. . .it got approved

I like intel better. . .its more simple. . .but AMD is better when you're on a budget. . .but thats a whole different issue. . .

[Natheria]

so I grabbed my pants and read and re-read the socket AM3 or AM2. . .anyways

So which one goes in which socket again?  

Anywho...

Phenom x4 etc are the older versions made on the 65nm (nanometer) process where as the II x4's are 45nm. Smaller process means they run cooler and you can clock them higher etc. That's pretty much the only difference.

[GoGeTa006]

so I grabbed my pants and read and re-read the socket AM3 or AM2. . .anyways

So which one goes in which socket again?  

Anywho...

Phenom x4 etc are the older versions made on the 65nm process where as the II x4's are 45nm. Smaller process means they run cooler and you can clock them higher etc. That's pretty much the only difference.

and that means . . .?
if i buy a compatible
Athlon II = Athlon II x4?
Athlon x4 = Athlon II x4?

[Natheria]

Pretty much. Same chip, different manufacturing process.

Now if you want something really confusing, go look up Kurishii's thread on the Core i series.

[GoGeTa006]

Pretty much. Same chip, different manufacturing process.

Now if you want something really confusing, go look up Kurishii's thread on the Core i series.

wait what?. . .both things are right?

on that other thing
I was reading a little bit about that (not on his thread tho). . .quite confusing the core i3 vs the i5. . .

[fohfoh]

Isn't the only difference between the i3 and i5 hyperthreading?

[Natheria]

No, that's the difference between the Lynnfield i7 and the i5. i3 doesn't have turbo unlike i5 (artificially OCs two cores when your running something like a game that doesn't really need all 4 cores).

The problem with the Core i series is that once you get into i5 and i3 territory (and we're not even gonna get into the 1156 vs 1366 socket differences) you start running into re branded Core2's (yeah, there's duel core i5s and i3s...). and the difference between integrated graphics (Clarkdale vs Lynnfield) along with the different chip sets (p55, h55, h57...etc). Kurishii explains it better.

Edit: Wait a sec... Apparently Clarkdales do have hyper threading?  -_-

[GoGeTa006]

i changed the title since this thing is drifting away =.=

and my question wasnt clearly answered

anyways. . .

[fohfoh]

Found this chart...


I guess it's that stupid i5 7xx that's screwing with people.

Personally, I'd make your client a guinea pig and try out the i3. I doubt they're gaming or anything on it, so a dual core with HT should be enough IMO. Not to mention it's "low" so the cost shouldn't be too bad... but in all honesty, you build it, and test it out.  i5 on the other hand seems too high yet low at the same time. If not i5, go i7 sort of deal.

[GoGeTa006]

MM sounds interesting. . .using the client as guinea pig. . .cause i have this build (assuming the processors are compatible)

without piece specs

Athlon II x4 @ 2.6 Ghz
4 GB RAM
512 Radeon vid card
500 GB 7200 rpm HD
19" Monitor
======================
598
+ tax n shipping
678

would be charging around 800. . .iono if she'll think its worth it. . .cause seeing the market you can get a whole (crappy) desktop for around 600 (w monitor). . .and windows 7 original key (i'd have to share my vista key. . .i have 7 now)
so im at a loss
i dont think she'll be gaming. . .so prolly a crappy compaq or dell would suit her. . .but why did she ask me then =.= ill talk to her l8r on

just checked best buy. . .theres an AMD sempron compaq desktop (w monitor) for 350. . .

or go with a mobo with integrated graphic card. can drop the price for her to 650

[mgz]

MM sounds interesting. . .using the client as guinea pig. . .cause i have this build (assuming the processors are compatible)

without piece specs

Athlon II x4 @ 2.6 Ghz
4 GB RAM
512 Radeon vid card
500 GB 7200 rpm HD
19" Monitor
======================
598
+ tax n shipping
678

would be charging around 800. . .iono if she'll think its worth it. . .cause seeing the market you can get a whole (crappy) desktop for around 600 (w monitor). . .and windows 7 original key (i'd have to share my vista key. . .i have 7 now)
so im at a loss
i dont think she'll be gaming. . .so prolly a crappy compaq or dell would suit her. . .but why did she ask me then =.= ill talk to her l8r on

just checked best buy. . .theres an AMD sempron compaq desktop (w monitor) for 350. . .

or go with a mobo with integrated graphic card. can drop the price for her to 650

eh given your post about amd x4 chip ide suggest you tell the individual that you would prefer not to build someone elses PC since you arent terribly experienced given you dont understand exactly what chips are compatible with what chipsets

[Natheria]

Can you link us the mobos you were thinking of using?

I kinda got the feeling i missed something from the original question. Does this have to do with chip sets or sockets? Because x4/II x4 are AM2+/AM3.

[Arveene]

I will say the Athlon II x4 is a great deal for it's price. Quad core under $100? Fuck yeah!

[Sosseres]

Found this chart...


I guess it's that stupid i5 7xx that's screwing with people.

Personally, I'd make your client a guinea pig and try out the i3. I doubt they're gaming or anything on it, so a dual core with HT should be enough IMO. Not to mention it's "low" so the cost shouldn't be too bad... but in all honesty, you build it, and test it out.  i5 on the other hand seems too high yet low at the same time. If not i5, go i7 sort of deal.

That image isn't 100% correct, there are some older i7 models that only support 1066 MHz ram without overclocking it (they say they are easy to overclock though). This is probably due to the the three channel ram support vs the two channel ram support. http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/CS-029913.htm

[fohfoh]

Found this chart...


I guess it's that stupid i5 7xx that's screwing with people.

Personally, I'd make your client a guinea pig and try out the i3. I doubt they're gaming or anything on it, so a dual core with HT should be enough IMO. Not to mention it's "low" so the cost shouldn't be too bad... but in all honesty, you build it, and test it out.  i5 on the other hand seems too high yet low at the same time. If not i5, go i7 sort of deal.

That image isn't 100% correct, there are some older i7 models that only support 1066 MHz ram without overclocking it (they say they are easy to overclock though). This is probably due to the the three channel ram support vs the two channel ram support. http://www.intel.com/support/processors/sb/CS-029913.htm

Might be true... not sure. I'm pretty sure the server I built using the 920 i7 uses 1066MHz ram. Maybe they updated certain CPUs... or... old Mobo restrictions or old BIOS restrictions? I have no idea.

[GoGeTa006]

Can you link us the mobos you were thinking of using?

I kinda got the feeling i missed something from the original question. Does this have to do with chip sets or sockets? Because x4/II x4 are AM2+/AM3.

ok then. . .so the only thing that matters is the socket type?
have i been tricked all this time?
let me rephrase my original question, see if i can get it a bit more clear.

When I buy an intel chip i check the motherboard to be compatible
(example)
I want a core2quad. . .I look for motherboards compatible with core2quad. . .simple
I want an i7/i5/i3 . . .I look for a motherboard compatible with i7/i5/i3. . .simple also

when it comes to AMD

I want a Phenom II x4. . .(say i dont know (now i do) but say i dont know that socket thing)
Im looking at motherboard's "compatibility" - Phenom II x2 / Athlon II <-- not ocmpatible with II x4?
or another example Phenom x4 / Athlon x4 <----- not compatible with Phenom II x4?

Thing is Phenom II and Phenom are the same thing? (same for athlon)
if the socket is the same (say am2) a motherboard will read Phenom II x4 / Phenom II x2 / Phenom II / Phenom x4 / Phenom x2 ? (if they are all am2)

[Lupin]

Thing is Phenom II and Phenom are the same thing? (same for athlon)
if the socket is the same (say am2) a motherboard will read Phenom II x4 / Phenom II x2 / Phenom II / Phenom x4 / Phenom x2 ? (if they are all am2)

Phenom II != Phenom

[kyanwan]

MM sounds interesting. . .using the client as guinea pig. . .cause i have this build (assuming the processors are compatible)

without piece specs

Athlon II x4 @ 2.6 Ghz
4 GB RAM
512 Radeon vid card
500 GB 7200 rpm HD
19" Monitor
======================
598
+ tax n shipping
678

would be charging around 800. . .iono if she'll think its worth it. . .cause seeing the market you can get a whole (crappy) desktop for around 600 (w monitor). . .and windows 7 original key (i'd have to share my vista key. . .i have 7 now)
so im at a loss
i dont think she'll be gaming. . .so prolly a crappy compaq or dell would suit her. . .but why did she ask me then =.= ill talk to her l8r on

just checked best buy. . .theres an AMD sempron compaq desktop (w monitor) for 350. . .

or go with a mobo with integrated graphic card. can drop the price for her to 650

You'll need to consider this as well -

the equipment you'll be setting her up with is NOT BY A LONGSHOT the same as you'd get with a market box PC that's the same price, or less.   What you're giving is modular, upgradable, customizable - and far more versatile & better quality. 

What you normally get with those value PCs is stripped down equipment that usually sucks - almost always sucks. 

---

BTW - grats with your success @ RMA.

[sdedalus83]

I want a Phenom II x4. . .(say i dont know (now i do) but say i dont know that socket thing)
Im looking at motherboard's "compatibility" - Phenom II x2 / Athlon II <-- not ocmpatible with II x4?
or another example Phenom x4 / Athlon x4 <----- not compatible with Phenom II x4?[/color]

Thing is Phenom II and Phenom are the same thing? (same for athlon)
if the socket is the same (say am2) a motherboard will read Phenom II x4 / Phenom II x2 / Phenom II / Phenom x4 / Phenom x2 ? (if they are all am2)

The first Phenom sucked ass.  It couldn't clock worth shit, and the performance was barely better than an Athlon 64.  Phenom II and Athlon II chips have been known to overclock really, really well and their performance is reasonably close to that of a similarly clocked Core 2.

All AM3 CPUs, Phenom II X2, X3, and X4, Athlon II X2, X3, and X4, will work on all AM3 and all AM2/2+ motherboards.  AM3 means DDR3, which AM2 and AM2+ chips(All Phenoms, some Athlon II and Phenom II) do not support.  AM3 chips can use either DDR2 or DDR3, depending upon the motherboard used.

At this point, there's no reason to get an AM2 or 2+ board unless you need to save $50 - $70 on the board and memory, or if you already have an AM2 or 2+ board and want to upgrade processors.  Just get an AM3 board and AM3 processor.  You'll still spend less than you would on a dual core i3 chip and matching board.

[Natheria]

When I buy an intel chip i check the motherboard to be compatible
(example)
I want a core2quad. . .I look for motherboards compatible with core2quad. . .simple
I want an i7/i5/i3 . . .I look for a motherboard compatible with i7/i5/i3. . .simple also

This will get you in trouble if your not careful. You wouldn't want to buy an i7 with a Bloomfield core and try sticking it into an 1156 socket.