Best Version of Bakemonogatari to Get? gg/qIIq? Thora/Coalgirls? BluRay or TV?

[Arinox]

Hi. I'm a really, really big fan of this series, completedness notwithstanding. I was hoping for some advice on which version to archive permanently to my HDD, until the BluRay comes out with english subs (which I buy so I won't feel as guilty, as I still mostly prefer fansubs over except for a very few and elite set of official subs).

I currently have all 13 episodes from gg. I know that they once trolled episode 2, but I really don't care about that. What I'm looking for is the best version to get based on my criteria, which put translation accuracy and QC on top, with video quality only slightly below (this IS for archive purposes after all, I don't want a crappy sdtv rip).

Now, I've heard a lot of flak from people who simply don't like gg, or the fact that they didn't translate and typeset everything, or that the translation of some lines weren't accurate. And for sure, aside from the amateur-virgin/STDs from hookers/Prostitute-only virginity, I haven't yet seen any other examples pointed out (though this mistranslation is already pretty major from my viewpoint, and warrant me dumping gg and going for a different group if they're better). If you don't know what I mean, there's a conversation from episode 2 whilst Hitagi is changing that has this line which is translated differently between all the major groups, but with the STD line from gg being the most different.

However, aside from that in terms of Audio and Video, I really don't have any complaints with gg. The Vid is phenomenal, especially since they're a speedsub. Also, I really, really liked the karaoke (this anime needs its karaoke, all the OPs and the ED is excellent, and I'm not saying that lightly). The typesetting really didn't bother me much, since I really don't care if every little road sign is translated.

I've heard good things about qIIq. They seem to be the sub group of choice (based on the fact that they've got the better score on aniDB, they were chosen by BOTH coalgirls and THORA), but I'm kinda concerned about a screenshot I saw which showed that yes, they did translate all the signs and japanese text (as opposed to gg translating only a select few signs and only the latter episodes have translated slides at the beginning [the quotes from the novel that flash right before the start of the episode]), but they also sort of killed the original artwork by putting a flat, solid color in place of the original sign. Also, I heard that when they translated the intro quotes/texts, they sometimes overlapped the original japanese (which isn't that big a deal, but if avoidable, seems a bit saddening if it's there).

Now, I'm all for waiting for the best possible release, since I'm already a happy camper with my current gg translations for the time being. So I'm not concerned over speed. But I need a group that at least has some chance of finishing. I'm quickly losing faith in THORA, since they haven't posted anything in almost TWO months, and they've yet to finish Ef-a Tale of Melodies (which I've been waiting for since last year). So coalgirls seems to be the better choice (especially since they're encoding in 720, which my PC can handle better than 1080, which hits me as overkill on my 15.4" laptop screen).

Any thoughts? I'm also thinking about using qIIq's subs with gg's videos (although I don't know how this will work: will the ugly typesetting appear as well? is timing going to be a problem? where do I get their *.ass's or *.srt's in the first place??).

I'm really desperate here, and my OC tendencies are freaking me out since I can't decide whether to dump gg and go with qIIq. My favorite episode is still episode 12, so I guess that'll have to remain gg, since it seems no other group has gotten that far for some reason (correct me if I'm wrong).

Also, I'm hearing some mixed messages with the bluray raws. Added animation is always cool, especially given episode 10 with the exorbitant amount of still inserts, but I've also heard that some animations were vastly changed, and that the original animation was actually better in comparison. I don't really care, as long as the animation is still up to standard, but I was a bit saddened by a comment that said they removed Nadeko's floppy hat from her OP.

Finally is there any major differences between the THORA / CoalGirls / original qIIq release? aside from the encode quality (as I've said, I don't have that big a screen, and as long as the video quality is as good or better than gg's I'm happy.) I mean, did either of the two former encoders do away with the text blocking? Is the karaoke better rendered (I like the qIIq translations of the songs better, but the placement of the text seems awkward, at least from the screenshots I've seen).

I would really appreciate some honest opinions, as well as evidence or proof for any arguments... since the entire reasons why I started this thread in the first place is because I'm tried of not getting any definitive answer because all other discussions turn into flame wars or needless praising of pet subgroups, with little or no actual proof either way.

for reference on the differences in karaoke, typesetting and translations that I pointed out, see this link: http://www.ji-hi.net/bakemonogatari/index.html

I have very limited bandwidth, so I can't go and download a few episodes from each group and compare.

What I'm after, really, is a version of bakemonogatari that has:
1. The Best Translation/QC which seems to be qIIq
2. The Best Typesetting which seems to be frostii or gg (I don't mind not seeing everything, as long as the typesetting isn't obtrusive)
3. The Best karaoke (with gg and qIIq both having pros and cons, based on my limited knowledge of the qIIq's version)
4. the Best Vid which is a tie for me, since my laptop was already pretty happy with gg's release, so if THORA's 1080 or CoalGirls 720 encode are supposedly better, I might not be able to see the difference, rendering the argument moot.

Anyone?

EDIT: I just found out that Koharubi is the provider of CoalGirl's sub scripts. Are they really better? If they are, than  CoalGirls might be worth a look, as it seems to be a good compromise for me. What do you guys think?

[Lupin]

You posted the same topic in different forums

As I have posted in the other thread, stick with what you currently have. The version you are looking for doesn't exist... yet

[vuzedome]

Coalgirls is what you want.
Although my personal choice is THORA, even if their encoder went missing, I'm willing to wait.

[Arinox]

Thanks. So CoalGirls it is, then? I just checked out their site. Seems like they're settling for gg script for the last tsubasa cat arc (11-onwards) since they believe that the other subbers had dropped it.

So anyone else believe the CoalGirls might be the best version for me?

Thanks.

[Zalis116]

(this IS for archive purposes after all, I don't want a crappy sdtv rip).

I wouldn't worry about that, considering you have to go out of your way just to get a Bakemonogatari SDtv-rip in the first place. Most groups didn't even release low-res versions. AniDB is your friend.

Any thoughts? I'm also thinking about using qIIq's subs with gg's videos (although I don't know how this will work: will the ugly typesetting appear as well? is timing going to be a problem? where do I get their *.ass's or *.srt's in the first place??).

If qIIq's typesetting is all softsubbed as the comments out there say, then yes. It will show up if you apply their scripts to a different video. If you're able to DL their releases, you can obtain their scripts by using MKVExtract. Or ask some kind soul to post them on a DDL site for you.

Another option would be editing qIIq's scripts to remove the block overlays, which would require Aegisub and some fansubber know-how.

Timing... I really have no idea, both gg and qIIq used variable frame rates, so it's anybody's guess. My guess is "yes, they'll be different."

EDIT:
@Havok, as to why he's ambivalent on BD vs. TV:

Also, I'm hearing some mixed messages with the bluray raws. Added animation is always cool, especially given episode 10 with the exorbitant amount of still inserts, but I've also heard that some animations were vastly changed, and that the original animation was actually better in comparison. I don't really care, as long as the animation is still up to standard, but I was a bit saddened by a comment that said they removed Nadeko's floppy hat from her OP.

[Havoc10K]

l don't understand the last part of question :
bluRays or TV ?
thats a joke right ?

[Arinox]

Thanks to everyone who responded. I apologize for posting this same thread on two different boards, but I honestly didn't know which place to post a question such as this.

Upon further investigation based on blog posts on the net, I've come to accept the new animation used in the BluRays and DVDs. I honestly don't find them worse than the original scenes, and the one new scene that was drawn not to my liking (the one with Hitagi looking at you from Episode 9) flashes on the screen fro less than a second, so no biggie. All the other redrawn scenes were cool, because they were stylistically coherent with the rest of the anime. Plus of course, the new animation, especially the <spoiler>Spirit Snake Psuedo-Hentai Tentacle Rape Scene</spoiler>. I miss Nadeko's Floppy Hat, though.

With regard to the translation, I've yet to fully decide on who has the best. If what Zalis said is true (and I doubt him for a minute) then even the qIIq typesetting (with horrible, horrible sold blocks of gradient color) would then be ok, since I would just turn off the subs for a second to absorb and appreciate the actual animation, then turn it back on to continue watching and understand what's written and said. In all honesty, except for the signs and the storyboards/novel quotes, there are some other typesettings that are quite good (case in point, documents that were typeset with english).

However, now that it would seem that I've settled on qIIq over gg in terms of subtitle quality, I'm even more confused since I've seen some stuff (enough times for me to think of it as valid) on the net that says Koharubi has THE BEST translation. You see, more so than most animes, Bakemonogatari really needs its original language intact, not just a reinterpretation of the dialogue. At least, that's what I think.

So I would really appreciate it if anyone could outright tell me which sub script seems like the best, in their opinion. Please cite some examples, if you could.

Depending on this I'll decide to:
If qIIq is the best subs, then I'll download the qIIq 720 releases. and learn to live with the typesets. Then replace with THORA once it's done.
If Koharubi is the best, then I'll download CoalGirls.
If the cons outweigh the pros with either one, I'll still with gg (since I really, really like the karaoke, the title screen, and am content with the subs.)

As you guys can probably tell, I'm nitpicky with my archives, since I have limited HDD space and bandwidth, I tend to want THE best (even if there's really no way to gauge which release that would be). I can be content with my subs, but as long as there exists as possible BETTER release, I will not rest until torrenting has been done.

Thank you again, everybody.

[namaiki]

qIIq - *everything* is softsubbed.

[kristen]

namaiki, the only group that did not fully softsub everything was Koharubi. That's not really a deciding factor at all.

Here's the way I see everything as of episode 10.

1. Blu-Ray over TV, most definitely. There are lots and lots of scenes redrawn, episode 10 is actually animated, and it just plain looks better. I would not consider any TV group over a BD group for this series. So, take away Koharubi and gg, as they will not do the complete BD.
2. qIIq-Thora and Coalgirls use the same typesetting, so there is no use in discussing block typesetting. You will get it with a BD version.
3. Both q-T and CGi are releasing commentary tracks and TV previews.
4. No group used hardsubbing.

These are what's the same. What's different is:

1. Coalgirls uses the Koharubi script, qIIq-Thora uses the qIIq script. You are right that multiple places have called the Koharubi script the best. While Thora chose qIIq's script, you cannot use that as a basis, as that is a joint. Blinx01 chose Koharubi's script + qIIq's typesetting for what it matters.
2. Coalgirls uses FLAC audio, qIIq-Thora uses AC3.

So, I'd go with CGi. Especially considering Adenozin has been mia for almost 2 months.


PS: Floppy hat is in the 2nd version of the 4th OP, according the the CGi website.

[namaiki]

My post was simply in response to Zalis116 and Arinox's posts. >_>

[Arinox]

Thank you all. So I'll be going with the CoalGirls version then. Hope they finish soon, or decide to release a patch with koharubi's script if the latter do decide to finish the series. I wouldn't be able to tell, but maybe after watching the first 9 episodes of the CG+Koharubi releases, I'd be discontented with using gg's scripts for the remaining 5 episodes. Especially since Episode 12 was something I really enjoyed.

Thanks for the tips, everyone.