New look for Ubuntu with the release of Lucid Lynx!

[fohfoh]

Anyway, I'm exiting this argument with a final note - what it boils down to is that UIs need to be a pleasure to use regardless of who is using them.

Wrong: it's impossible to please everyone no matter what you do.

Agreed. And the above two have probably never seen the new superbar for win7. It's slightly better than the older versions of windows, but not as "fun" as multiple desktops.

[nstgc]

Anyway, I'm exiting this argument with a final note - what it boils down to is that UIs need to be a pleasure to use regardless of who is using them.

Wrong: it's impossible to please everyone no matter what you do.

Agreed, thats why the UI should be as customizable as possible.

Anyway, I'm exiting this argument with a final note - what it boils down to is that UIs need to be a pleasure to use regardless of who is using them.

Wrong: it's impossible to please everyone no matter what you do.

Agreed. And the above two have probably never seen the new superbar for win7. It's slightly better than the older versions of windows, but not as "fun" as multiple desktops.

I don't understand why this sounds so much like you can have one, the other, but not both. The screen shot I posted has the avant windows navigator. While I can't say that there I've seen a UI for an OS with a better start menu than Windows 7, over all, the new superbar falls short of AWN and the OS X Dock (which AWN is clearly modeled after).

[fohfoh]

Anyway, I'm exiting this argument with a final note - what it boils down to is that UIs need to be a pleasure to use regardless of who is using them.

Wrong: it's impossible to please everyone no matter what you do.

Agreed, thats why the UI should be as customizable as possible.

Anyway, I'm exiting this argument with a final note - what it boils down to is that UIs need to be a pleasure to use regardless of who is using them.

Wrong: it's impossible to please everyone no matter what you do.

Agreed. And the above two have probably never seen the new superbar for win7. It's slightly better than the older versions of windows, but not as "fun" as multiple desktops.

I don't understand why this sounds so much like you can have one, the other, but not both. The screen shot I posted has the avant windows navigator. While I can't say that there I've seen a UI for an OS with a better start menu than Windows 7, over all, the new superbar falls short of AWN and the OS X Dock (which AWN is clearly modeled after).

That statement was made in retrospect to iindigo's statement about windows being clunky on the interface and w/e. True, its clunky, but it's not THAT clunky.

[Xiong Chiamiov]

This doesn't feel like an upgrade - it looks like something strait out of the XP era.

The Windows 7 windowing decorations are a straight copy of the most popular QT theme (Oxygen?).  The issue is that Ubuntu (combined with the terribleness that was KDE 4.0) has people convinced that Gnome is the prettiest "Linux" there is, which is completely not true, according to most people's aesthetics.

Honestly, Linux can be quite beautiful.  Most of us just don't feel the need to make it so.

I didn't think compiz was part of the default install....

For quite some time.

He he he... you linux and mac kids can argue about "flashy" and "shiny" and all other gay stuff out there, but the rest of us who actually use OS to run 'something else other than itself will use windows.

Actually, I use Linux because I do more than just the OS.  The occasional 3d game is about all I can use on Windows (well, and Firefox, I suppose).

Hell, 95% of the time I use a pc, I don't see the desktop and all the shit there. Why do people even care about that?

Some of us do in fact see our desktops quite frequently.

[AceHigh]

Actually, I use Linux because I do more than just the OS.  The occasional 3d game is about all I can use on Windows (well, and Firefox, I suppose).

To be honest, Linux is useful to me as well for some tasks more then windows. However pretty much all of those tasks are something that don't make me care about desktop.... hell even a screen for that matter. Last time I used Linux it was for the VPN server, vent server etc... in other words anything that has something to do with servers and rarely needs my attention.

In fact I would use Linux instead of Windows if it could run: games and programming applications that I use at work.

[iindigo]

Well if this thread has proven anything, it's that people's computer use needs, habits, and preferences vary wildly.

The Windows 7 windowing decorations are a straight copy of the most popular QT theme (Oxygen?).  The issue is that Ubuntu (combined with the terribleness that was KDE 4.0) has people convinced that Gnome is the prettiest "Linux" there is, which is completely not true, according to most people's aesthetics.

Honestly, Linux can be quite beautiful.  Most of us just don't feel the need to make it so.

I believe you, it just seems that well-done Gnome, KDE, xfce, etc themes are in the minority. The last time I had a look around places like gnome-look.org I can honestly say that I was not impressed at all. Perhaps I was just looking in the wrong places... do you have any suggestions as to where these aesthetically pleasing Linux themes might be hiding?

[disassembler]

A better screenshot can be found here:

I don't like it at all. The colors are weird (but Ubuntu seems to have a penchant for those), the widget arrangement is different from everything else for no particular reason, and the whole mess has an air of "amateur-made XP theme" around it. I don't find the new icons particularly impressive, either... the old tango ones were much nicer.

Why don't we see more Linux themes sitting in the realm of modern and cutting edge?

Linux wasn't meant to be Apple, nor was it meant to be windows. It's an alternative.

Regardless, I know a handful of freelance designers who could make Linux look pretty badass (sans Mac & Windows)! Not that it wasn't fine the way it was...I just don't see a problem with making something great even better.

P.S. The comment wasn't meant to be obnoxious or anything, just saying I know of a few people who could make Linux look pretty sweet without mimicking Win or Mac.

[nstgc]

@Ace: Being able to see your desktop or not doesn't matter. Being able to see your open windows and navigate among them easily is what matters.

@iindigo: You're thinking too small. Why talk about themes? They are little more than reskins. For a different experience you need to replace the UI, or at least give it an overhaul.

[iindigo]

@iindigo: You're thinking too small. Why talk about themes? They are little more than reskins. For a different experience you need to replace the UI, or at least give it an overhaul.

That's true. The UI's look does make some amount of difference, though; for example, working with an XP install with no theme changes will sometimes give me a headache after a while because Luna's colors are too bright/strong.

What are most Linux window mangers like in terms of functionality these days? Last one I really played with was GNOME, which seemed fairly complete, but lacked certain things (like an Exposé equiv) and WindowMaker (a clone of the old NeXTSTEP/OPENSTEP window manager).

[nstgc]

Gnome by itself uses Metacity which is intentionally bare. Ubuntu comes with Compiz Fusion preinstalled which replaces Metacity. You need to enable certain feature in the GUI, but it has more features than OS X. As you can see in the screen shot, you can install an OS X like dock. It doesn't just look like the OSX dock, it functionality is similar as well. Last I used it (about a year ago) it was still kind of buggy so I'm not using it now. I don't need a dock nor do I need a task bar. I just take my cursor to the top of my screen and hit the top mouse button. It spreads all open windows out. I believe thats what Exposé does.

[edit] I don't suggest viewing the various YouTube videos that have been uploaded demonstrating the 1337ness of Compiz since all they really show is the eye candy part of it.

[Xiong Chiamiov]

The Windows 7 windowing decorations are a straight copy of the most popular QT theme (Oxygen?).  The issue is that Ubuntu (combined with the terribleness that was KDE 4.0) has people convinced that Gnome is the prettiest "Linux" there is, which is completely not true, according to most people's aesthetics.

Honestly, Linux can be quite beautiful.  Most of us just don't feel the need to make it so.

I believe you, it just seems that well-done Gnome, KDE, xfce, etc themes are in the minority. The last time I had a look around places like gnome-look.org I can honestly say that I was not impressed at all. Perhaps I was just looking in the wrong places... do you have any suggestions as to where these aesthetically pleasing Linux themes might be hiding?

Try KDE-look.  Screenshot threads are always nice (and people usually provide links to their configs), although they do tend to lean towards the minimalistic.

[nstgc]

I'd advice against KDE. Its kinds kind of glitchy and not as functional as it looks.

[iindigo]

Indeed. Last I tried it, it was also something of a clunkbeast in comparison to other WMs...

[darkphon22]

I'm a huge fan of the Elementary icon theme, Albatross GTK+ theme, and Xfce for many of these reasons. The themes are simple and easy-to-recognize but quite beautiful as well.

Xfce is awesome because of its configurablity and speed. Everything down to how your clock displays time is easily customizible (and 99.9% of time you don't have to edit a text file, though there is always that option). Most of all though, it is designed to be fast and to stay out of your way. There are no animations as there is no reason to hide slowness. Windows can simply pop-up instead of ssssllllliiiiddding into view.

User interfaces should not just be pretty, they should be elegant and even graceful, which is a much harder thing to achieve.

[nstgc]

Xfce is indeed nice. Its clean, functional, and fast. The Xfce task bar also comes with an icon box. Its functionality is comparable to the WIndows 7 taskbar, and below that of OS X's. I would use Xfce if it weren't for the fact that Compiz Fusion works better with Gnome. The Scale plug-in (which is what they call expose) is extremely useful, making multitasking so much easier.

[darkphon22]

Ya Compiz Fusion (in fact compositing in general on Linux) messes up V-Sync with video on Linux, so I can't use it. From what I read, X11 can't handle 2 programs V-Syncing at once cuz of its design. In fact, V-Sync with X11 is essentially a dirty hack.

One of these days, I would like to help engineer a replacement for X11 that natively supports 3D accelerated windows management and V-Sync w/o elaborate hacks. X11 is essentially now a custy old pig (though very well-engineered for its time). It really needs to be replaced.

[nstgc]

I haven't don't have V-sync problems. I didn't have any trouble with the ATi drivers, and with nVidia drivers I just needed to enable two things in the nVidia control panel (plus some tweaking). I also needed to enable V-sync in Compiz. I don't know about that being a "dirty hack" but I certainly don't have problems now. Getting nVidia's drivers to V-sync openGL was a pain in the ass, but it wasn't something that can't be done given time and patients.

Of course, I also don't use X11. I use OpenGL. I can't remember how to switch it manually. On a previous release of Ubuntu I had to manaully tell nVidia (but not ATi) to use OpenGL instead of X11, but in 9.04 and 9.10, it's default.

[darkphon22]

Using OpenGL is a great workaround for Compiz, though it still breaks VDPAU as I believe it uses X11 to render the video.

I've had a really hard time getting things to stop tearing with both Compiz and VDPAU being used at the same time. Using OpenGL for both probably would fix it, but then I lose the H.264 acceleration.

[nstgc]

I've almost always used MPlayer. Before I used vdpau's render I used the open gl render. Just set "vo = gl" in "~/.mplayer/config". If that doesn't work tack on ":swapinterval=1".

I don't quite understand the problem. I assume you built some player with vdpau support so you should have both the render and the decoder. What renderer your desktop uses is irrelevant.

[darkphon22]

VDPAU is a different video output from OpenGL. You set "vo = vdpau" to enable it. I believe the VDPAU output uses X11, which causes V-Sync issues when using compositing. This is as X11 can't properly V-Sync when two or more applications are V-Syncing at once.

Using OpenGL for everything is a pretty good solution as I believe all OpenGL apps only count as one application as the rendering is all handled within OpenGL. X11 has issues syncing outputs from two applications at once though, which you run into when one application renders using X11 directly and one application renders using OpenGL.