What makes an Anime good?

[harpy]

Story.

Pure and simple.   Without a good story with well developed and established characters,  you are just watching shit.

Fan service is OK, but if you are watching a show purely for those reasons,  then that's your problem to justify.

Whether it is a bunch of words printed on a page, or a comic book, or strip, or an animated work,  the story is the strongest point and the whole reason for watching.  Despite the fact  the art may be horrendous, and the music might blow,  or the fan service level ridiculous,  a good story will keep you around until resolution.

I read the question as what makes an Anime good and not was makes xxx good. So I had to pick why I watch anime. ^^

You don't care about what is happening as long as it looks and sounds good? o_0 And you would not watch anime if it does not look all nice and don't sound all nice, but have an amazing story? o_0

You did mention dialogues, but, you got to have a story to have a good dialogue....

[Havoc10K]

targetted audience also makes an anime good, if it's reaching the audience, then it spreads, but the three most important things remain:
Soun
Artwork
Drama (plot/story/you name it/script for some)

if all that succeeds, it's a win.

[Sosseres]

You did mention dialogues, but, you got to have a story to have a good dialogue....

I disagree on this point. Great dialogue is an end to itself outside of the story. Story is of course nice, but nothing that determines if something is good or not. Else episodic comedy series would be in a lot of problems.

You don't care about what is happening as long as it looks and sounds good? o_0 And you would not watch anime if it does not look all nice and don't sound all nice, but have an amazing story? o_0

I had how it looks as my last point, it is more important than the story though. It is the same way when I read, I read for character interactions/development/prose and to a much lesser degree for the story. Then if all else is good story has its role. How a scene is developed is more important than the overall story for me.

The promise of a good story is what takes me through the bad parts, that and fast forward.

[Havoc10K]

basicaly as long as the story is good, you can watch stick drawings and you will be satisfied, l have higher demands that just that.

[Chef]

I find the argument regarding sound and specifically art/drawing interesting.

I think that it's a legitimate complaint when an anime has bad art, but that what constitutes bad art may be very close-minded for some people here. The purpose of writing, music, drawings etc is to convey a message. If you don't want to hear that message, not matter how good or well it is being conveyed it won't reach you. Which means if you have a very immediate and negative reaction to any art-style that you aren't familiar with, it could be quite a mental block you're building for yourself that prevents you from enjoying a quality product.

For me when I encounter anything with a very foreign style, be it in art or music or whatever, I try to withhold judgment. Or at least, if that is impossible, I give it a fighting chance to prove itself. No one is immune to the feeling of automatic rejection of new things, but I find if I'm analytical and really try my best to see value in a form, I often do. And really, if an anime has a great story, the chances are even if the art and music is very weird and hard to like at first, it is also very deeply thought of and full of meaning. Something you might not get from your average art style that you're used to.

When you answer the question "What makes anime good?" I think your answer has to be more complex than "Good art!" You have to also answer what you think makes art in anime good. For me, being easy on the eyes, realism, and complexity are not mandatory qualities. They are undoubtably good qualities, but something that is not drawn realistically, something that is even very confusing can often have value buried beneath that you have to connect to the story. I value very symbolic art as well, and it doesn't have to be realistically drawn. It can be very squiggly, sketchy lines, and I will ask myself "Why did they choose to make those lines squiggly?" If I can answer that question, then it is good art. If I can't, then I either don't get it, or there was no meaning to be found in the first place and it is bad.

An example, I guess, is Kaiba. Very strange art style, but very symbolic and interesting. It's off-putting the first 2 episodes, but after that I began to love it. I often like old animes too, because the detail in the backgrounds is always superb, and important to the story and underlying messages of the work. Then I can give an example of say, Clannad, or Jigoku Shoujo... Very normal, very average art style. I really liked those animes, but I wouldn't say the art style helped or hurt them. It was just typical, but I suspect this is what people mean when they say "it has to be good art." It was absolutely mediocre art, despite some powerful images, because nothing could be emphasised in such a rigid style.

[cdexswzaq]

I'd say that it is impossible to formulate good definitions for what constitutes a quality anime, as with any other form of entertainment, such as movies, VG's, etc.

To a large degree, you have to judge it based on what it's trying to accomplish. Remember when Metal Gear Solid 4 came out, and all the people who disliked it because they "thought they were buying a game, not a movie"? Well, guess what? That's exactly what Kojima was trying to accomplish. He has stated that he wanted to try blurring the lines separating games and movies. It would be like watching Rambo and then complaining that you don't like violence. Well, then you're in the wrong place.

So what I'm saying is, that it's would be wrong to generally value, say, storyline over good action scenes on any level but the purely individually subjective one.

[Scudworth]

I LIKE PANTSU!

[Havoc10K]

I LIKE PANTSU!

+1

[Chef]

I'd say that it is impossible to formulate good definitions for what constitutes a quality anime, as with any other form of entertainment, such as movies, VG's, etc.

To a large degree, you have to judge it based on what it's trying to accomplish. Remember when Metal Gear Solid 4 came out, and all the people who disliked it because they "thought they were buying a game, not a movie"? Well, guess what? That's exactly what Kojima was trying to accomplish. He has stated that he wanted to try blurring the lines separating games and movies. It would be like watching Rambo and then complaining that you don't like violence. Well, then you're in the wrong place.

So what I'm saying is, that it's would be wrong to generally value, say, storyline over good action scenes on any level but the purely individually subjective one.

You're right, but the question proposed is 'what makes an anime good?' not 'what order do you put value on vague attributes?' I know that's the way many people are answering this question and you're making a good point, but it'd be nice to at least try to turn it into a valuable discussion.

I'll give you some encouragement. I want you (please) to think of an anime that made you think 'wow...' at the end, and then share what things that anime did right to achieve that feeling. Of course part of it might just be speaking directly to you, which is a little boring, but you could think of many other things I'm sure. Of course this question open to anyone else ^^ And I don't want to be bossy, I just think this is a topic with some potential, but needs a direction.

[forsaken]

I LIKE PANTSU!

I LIKE OPPAI!

I'll give you some encouragement. I want you (please) to think of an anime that made you think 'wow...' at the end, and then share what things that anime did right to achieve that feeling. Of course part of it might just be speaking directly to you, which is a little boring, but you could think of many other things I'm sure. Of course this question open to anyone else ^^ And I don't want to be bossy, I just think this is a topic with some potential, but needs a direction.

The last anime to really wow me was Appleseed Ex Machina. Only discovered it recently, having seen the first part way back when... I've showed it to several friends and even my dad, all of them were stunned by the quality aswell.

1080p just leaves you breathless. I have a 32" Full HD TV and seeing that film in the maximum resolution makes for a stunning viewing experience.

Obviously the action is wicked in the film, due to it's 3D rendering and seamless animation. I guess the wow-factor here is visuals. The characters, soundtrack and story are alright, but the thing that really got me excited throughout watching this was the quality of the artwork.

The last film before that was Sword of the Stranger. Again, due to the quality of the animation, choreography and detail of the action/fights, aswell as the fact that the main character is a badass.

[Neco]

I've only had a few make me go  "wow", but more in the  "I wish I lived in that world" sense, and not so much for any Message..

Gall Force: Eternal Story  had a great impact on me for some reason,  even though I was only around 12 years old when I saw it..   Maybe it was the whole creation story aspect,  or just being attached to the characters.  But it was a pretty decent story packed into 85 minutes, even to this day.  The ending made me sniffle a little when I was laying in bed later that night, thinking  "Why'd they (Rabby & Patty) have to die?"

I actually have rare comics for Eternal Story,  that when I heard about from a friend, jumped at the chance to get them (he owed me), so he bought them off ebay.   I've never really gone to those lengths for any other series,  more out of dedicated to the series itself, than for a need to further any knowledge of the story or something like that.  Although they don't really reveal anything (I haven't read them fully, I keep them sealed after a minor page tear incident). Just kind of recap the story in Comic form.

Ghost in The Shell,  although I won't pretend to understand the whole message there,  made me see technology and cybernetics in a completely different light..   I wouldn't mind having a full prosthetic body at all, now.

That's about it really, I guess.   Not very often something comes along and impacts me though..   Not in the philisophical sense..

FLCL,  Paranoi Agent, Evangelion -  I just don't get it and have no desire to.

[summertime]

If I had to summarize with one sentence only, I'd say it's an anime that makes you want to see more, cause such an anime can cover pretty much everything you look for in itself.

But, I must say I couldn't understand initially, why people in this thread started mentioning art. Up until now I always thought that there was no real difference in art, all characters had those big, disproportionate eyes and, you know, they all looked the same . The only way to differentiate between the characters (visually) was by their gender, eye color, hair color, clothing and hair style. Then I watched one episode of Monster and suddenly remembered thinking at it's beginning 'Wow, this anime deserves a good grade only for having such unique and realistic art'. So, yeah, here I am now, an enlightened man . Still, what I appreciate most in an anime is the story and character development.

[Neco]

The way characters are drawn is not "Art".   You are confusing the STYLE of drawing with Art in that case.   Anime & Manga are a style of Art that have common characteristics.

Art is a pretty broad term, otherwise, however.  Art could mean the actual background Art, such as  filler scenes, the background where the scene is taking place,  the way the story is expressed and the mechanisms used to tell it, and convey the actual method.

[Chef]

If I had to summarize with one sentence only, I'd say it's an anime that makes you want to see more, cause such an anime can cover pretty much everything you look for in itself.

But, I must say I couldn't understand initially, why people in this thread started mentioning art. Up until now I always thought that there was no real difference in art, all characters had those big, disproportionate eyes and, you know, they all looked the same . The only way to differentiate between the characters (visually) was by their gender, eye color, hair color, clothing and hair style. Then I watched one episode of Monster and suddenly remembered thinking at it's beginning 'Wow, this anime deserves a good grade only for having such unique and realistic art'. So, yeah, here I am now, an enlightened man . Still, what I appreciate most in an anime is the story and character development.

Characters in anime don't always have big eyes and what not. I also disagree with the poster above me who thinks anime is a style of art. I always thought anime was just short for animation and has become specific to Japan since the word cartoon is more popular outside Japan. Case and point, I would never call a cartoon made in America, no matter what its style, anime, and I doubt many other people would either.

In any case, when we talk about differences in art and style, I think we're talking more the difference between Kaiba, Kemonozume, Death Note, and I dunno, whatever in your mind typifies the most cliche kind of art style for anime. Even just the body shape of characters is vastly different between animes, and some people don't like it when it's not what they're used to and it's also not realistic. When someone talks about art they think is bad, I find they're usually talking about something like Kemonozume which basically makes the whole show look like a bunch of sketches (although I think it's quite good). Some people mistake that for laziness and that can ruin an anime for them.

[forsaken]

Characters in anime don't always have big eyes and what not. I also disagree with the poster above me who thinks anime is a style of art. I always thought anime was just short for animation and has become specific to Japan since the word cartoon is more popular outside Japan.
+1

Case and point, I would never call a cartoon made in America, no matter what its style, anime, and I doubt many other people would either.
-1: I consider Avatar to be anime, but most hardcore weeaboos would probably fight me on that one But generally you're correct in that western stuff is generally cartoons whereas eastern stuff is anime. The difference in my eyes is the artwork and artstyle as opose to just the geographic location where it was made.

Another distinction is content. Cartoons are merely directed at children, while anime targets all age-groups and handles a much wider spectrum of storyline, mature subjects and explicit content.

[Chef]

Of course techincally all cartoons and animes are drawings, and they could techincally be completely interchangable, but if a person says 'Do you want to watch an anime?' or 'Do you want to watch a cartoon?' You know anime refers exclusively to Japan, whereas cartoon is pretty much used by all nations except Japan.

Cartoons are not just directed at children. That's misinformed. Even though this is getting really off-topic, I will give a few examples to make my point. Totally Spies: Canadian/French orgin, art style exactly like Japan. What would anyone call it? A cartoon, because it's on teletoon (Canada's Cartoon Network), and because it's in English (and French). Undergrads: American cartoon. Who is it directed at? Young adults. Simpsons: All ages. Clone High: Young adults. A number of other shows I don't remember the name of, but were on late night Teletoon because they had very adult, very not appropriate for children themes. Even though the characters did not have normal size eyes, and had at least a few anime cliche art styles, they would without a doubt be considered cartoons by your average guy on the street. You might get away with calling Spirited Away a cartoon, just because it's English dub is so good, but if the person knows it's from Japan they probably call it an anime.

In any case, it's semantics and I feel a bit silly for being so thorough... The real point I'm getting at is that even if you think there's a visible difference in style between cartoons and animes, there are so many darkhorses and weird art styles within both realms that they won't apply to anything you might typically think of when imagining either art style. If you say there is, you're basically denying Kaiba and Kemonozume are animes, and they clearly are.

[ZeroZero65]

Good story, beautiful artwork, good background music.

[Shirow]

After bluntly staring at all these enormous posts, I wondered: "What's the big deal? ZeroZero65's post sums it up just fine". But after a few moments of thinking, I must say the story is a bit deeper.

As we all know, anime production is layered and very complex. And there are billions of factors that affect the outcome. It starts with a bright (well, let's assume this) idea, and then everything must be done right in order to ensure the implementation will remain as bright. Producers must call up brilliant director, which must gather all the staff. And the staff is what makes anime good, if we've taken a materialistic approach. Every person's work is imporant, as well as every frame in anime.
Creators are obliged to put their hearts, pieces of their souls into anime (or whatever else actually) if they want an impressive result. And that is what matters to us.
But I guess this is obvious.

If to think the other way...
Good anime affects my mind and my heart. It makes me think and it makes me cry or laugh. That's what matters most to me. If anime is catchy on the inside, I will ignore it outside flaws (if any). If it is catchy only on the outside and has nothing else to offer - I will ignore the title itself.
That's how it is for me, and I think it's useless to list all the epithets for good anime here.

[Chef]

As we all know, anime production is layered and very complex. And there are billions of factors that affect the outcome. It starts with a bright (well, let's assume this) idea, and then everything must be done right in order to ensure the implementation will remain as bright. Producers must call up brilliant director, which must gather all the staff. And the staff is what makes anime good, if we've taken a materialistic approach. Every person's work is imporant, as well as every frame in anime.

Isn't anime usually/almost always taken from a manga? I mean, thinking just about story, that gives the author a lot of control, which is something nice I think. It gives a coheasiveness and control that you don't get when there's a room full of 20 mediocre writers trying to pump out the next episode. I can't say for sure how true animes are to the mangas though, because I don't read manga. I did read some of the Death Note manga, and it seemed very faithful.

I just wanted to bring that up, because that's something that might contrast significantly with American produced television shows, which were mostly just scripts written by some hopeful, bought, then mutilated into something that would just sell as well as possible to a mainstream audience, without regard to initial vision. That's changing the question a bit from "what makes an anime good" to "what makes anime good" but I think it's interesting.

That's how it is for me, and I think it's useless to list all the epithets for good anime here.

I think if you simplify things too much, yes, the discussion is pretty worthless. But for aspiring artists reading and posting on this forum, it is nice to think about these things if you get very specific and develop ideas for WHY we like things, not just WHAT we like. Of course we all like an anime that plays with our emotions and gets us involved... But how is that done? It's like when being interviewed... it's very boring to give 'yes' or 'no' answers... Or when you write an essay, it's not enough to just make a list of bullet points... Thoughts need to be elaborated and complicated to be worthwhile. One has to think "what would a stranger get from reading this?" So for example, if it's mundane to just say "I like anime that pulls my heart strings" maybe we can think about specific, but common elements that do this for you... To scratch only the surface, we might imagine long, detailed character development is needed to get your sympathy for their emotions, and thus an anime is good when it only asks you to care about characters it's properly presented to you (rather than perhaps the main characters mother dying at the very beginning of the show, leaving you feeling 'uh okay... I don't really have any attachment so I don't care and this is just needlessly dramatic').

Another thing is proper use (and absence of use) of music to effectively provoke emotion. An anime is good when it knows how to use silence to make the audience reflect or feel alone. Obviously appropriate music is good, but how about specially composed music? For an audience never to have heard a track before can make an anime truly engaging, because we don't get caught up in a routine of cliche songs that we know how we're supposed to feel to... We actually have to analyse and think and concentrate on the music which can be a very powerful tool for engaging your audience, or at very least animes that use music that is too cliche might be hurting themselves because of this.

I think there is a lot to say on this topic if only one is willing to really ponder it

[Shirow]

Chef, of course in most cases the origin of anime is manga, this fact is so well-known that I didn't even mention it.
But manga is being just a shell, mostly. Or rather starting point, base, whatever you call it.
And director decides what to build on this substructure. Another but is... what you said about the story is quite right. And I also do not read manga, at all.

North American cinematograph is industry in first place, exactly. Keyword there is 'production'. Not 'creation'. What we get is products (as a rule but not always). I don't want this. I want to enjoy the art. Because of that I love European cinematograph and anime. Although I see no difference between modern anime and Hollywood. Really. It's like they're selling out. It's painful to see, but it seems just like that to me. Most things that make anime good are no more.

Aw, you're so strict; although thoughts need to be polished, that's right.

If to get closer to topic and push it further... Character's presentation is a stand out point. First impressions last forever. So if creators are able to make you love the character right away - it's great, you'll be instantly sticked to the screen. On the other hand, creator can bring watcher to character's true face only through detailed exploration of personality and depiction of deeds; so, there are different methods to manipulate watcher's engaging in the show.
Other things is what scriptwriters put into character's mouth. These words better find a responce in our hearts. For example, saying something like "Hey! Tell me your real name! How will we become friends, if I don't know your name?" will pull a tear from my eyes, and thus leaving me satisfied.

Voicing is what makes anime good, and there are no doubts to that, voice is one of the most impressive features of anime. Seiyū do their work superbly, showcasing the palette of feelings and emotions that hardly will leave somebody untouched.

...for aspiring artists reading and posting on this forum...

What kind of artists?