Author Topic: Power Supply Unit (PSU)  (Read 1117 times)

Offline vuzedome

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Power Supply Unit (PSU)
« on: March 14, 2010, 10:45:14 PM »
Alright, here's some question for all you PSU gurus out there.
Actually I just wanted to hear the opinions of others.

Modular or non-modular?
Single rail or multi-rail?
Bigger or smaller fan?
And if you all would like to debate on, which brand?

I'm using this as a reference in buying a unit, but I know my wattage requirements so I'm neglecting that question.

And for those who use units with up to the kilowatts, do share a bit more on that.


« Last Edit: March 14, 2010, 11:10:14 PM by vuzedome »
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Offline nstgc

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Re: Power Supply Unit (PSU)
« Reply #1 on: March 14, 2010, 10:52:48 PM »
Modular: It'll make life so much easier
Multi-rail: The entra rail helps keep the voltage in your video card stable.
Bigger fan: Keeps it cooler.

Go to Google and see which PSUs are recommended for DFI motherboards. Those tend to be the best.

As for brands, Corsair, OCZ, and PC Power&Cooling make good ones. Check the list of recomended PSUs for DFI boards though.

I use a 620W Corsair PSU. I'm not sure what the model number is, but it has two rails, is modular, and has a 180mm fan.

Offline Mag-X

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Re: Power Supply Unit (PSU)
« Reply #2 on: March 14, 2010, 11:33:24 PM »
Not sure if it matters to you or not, but I'll be buying a power supply soon with a single 12v rail. Apparently, PSUs with split 12v rails won't be able to handle Fermi cards.

http://www.semiaccurate.com/2010/03/01/fermi-power-requirements-leak/
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Offline Viseroid

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Re: Power Supply Unit (PSU)
« Reply #3 on: March 15, 2010, 12:44:15 AM »
Modular or Non-modular?
-It depends on how much stuff you're going to connect and how much you feel like organizing your cables. I don't have a modular and it's fine since I use every cable except 2 PCI-E that I tuck under behind my motherboard tray.

Single or multi-rail?
-Depends, sometimes a good single rail will beat out a dual rail. However, I think most of the stuff nowadays is dual rail and are SLI-ready. Multiple rails will allow for better stability, read some reviews before you buy.

Bigger or smaller fan?
-A bigger fan won't have to turn as fast and would then make less sound. The general rule with fans is the bigger, the better, and the quieter.

Which brand?
I use a Corsair 750TX 750W. Corsair is a pretty good brand and I think I remember it handling test loads up to 1000W. Of course when you go that high you start losing efficiency, also why not just buy a 1000W :P?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006&Tpk=tx750w%20corsair

Offline Viseroid

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Re: Power Supply Unit (PSU)
« Reply #4 on: March 15, 2010, 12:58:21 AM »
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3990
This is a pretty good FAQ for PSU rails. Definitely worth a read when shopping for a new PSU.

Offline mgz

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Re: Power Supply Unit (PSU)
« Reply #5 on: March 15, 2010, 01:14:44 AM »
Modular: It'll make life so much easier
Multi-rail: The entra rail helps keep the voltage in your video card stable.
Bigger fan: Keeps it cooler.

Go to Google and see which PSUs are recommended for DFI motherboards. Those tend to be the best.

As for brands, Corsair, OCZ, and PC Power&Cooling make good ones. Check the list of recomended PSUs for DFI boards though.

I use a 620W Corsair PSU. I'm not sure what the model number is, but it has two rails, is modular, and has a 180mm fan.
dont forget silverstone they make great psus

i personally prefer corsair and silverstone

most rigs need a 750w psu or less a 1000w unless your running like 3 video cards and 10 HDDs is not needed and is a complete waste
modular vs non modular vs partially modular is all on you. Modular can make things less cluttered but you might have to worry about you losing cables  for later use.

Personally i just grabbed a nice corsair 750 it was cheaper at bestbuy then on newegg. at like 115 or 120


http://www.bestbuy.com/site/Corsair+-+750W+ATX+CPU+Power+Supply/9358303.p?id=1218090912061&skuId=9358303
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139006

bestbuy one is more expensive now but if your lazy and have one near u its convenient at times
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 02:00:42 AM by mgz »

Offline NaRu

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Re: Power Supply Unit (PSU)
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2010, 01:41:08 AM »
I use PC power and Cooling PSU.

This is the one I use

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703013
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 01:42:46 AM by NaRu »

Offline nstgc

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Re: Power Supply Unit (PSU)
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2010, 01:55:08 AM »
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3990
This is a pretty good FAQ for PSU rails. Definitely worth a read when shopping for a new PSU.

Thanks. I'm glad I read that. I'm also wondering if my PSU has two actual sources or is just one source split in two.

[edit]

Quote
Is it true that some PSU's that claim to be multiple +12V rails don't have the +12V rail split at all?

Yes, this is true. But it's the exception and not the norm. It's typically seen in Seasonic built units (like the Corsair HX and Antec True Power Trio.)

I have a Corsair HX :(
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 01:58:09 AM by nstgc »

Offline vuzedome

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Re: Power Supply Unit (PSU)
« Reply #8 on: March 15, 2010, 02:04:36 AM »
http://www.jonnyguru.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3990
This is a pretty good FAQ for PSU rails. Definitely worth a read when shopping for a new PSU.
Wow... now that's something new to me. Never thought the rails can go like that.

And about that Fermi leak,
If Fermi is that power hungry, I doubt there'll be any stable juice left for the other stuff,
I mind as well should just buy another unit just to power the Fermi card.  ;D
What do you guys think?
« Last Edit: March 15, 2010, 02:09:11 AM by vuzedome »
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Offline Gamerzhell

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Re: Power Supply Unit (PSU)
« Reply #9 on: March 15, 2010, 02:44:21 AM »
Even at 300w (which is the PCIe limit), your entire computer will max 500w usage, and that's with everything being 100% utilized.

A 500-550w PSU from a trustworthy name brand will sufficiently power a GTX480 + i7 with room to spare.

Wattage is not important in PSUs, a typical gaming computer will struggle to draw over 300w. What's most important is the amperage. Alot of good quality PSUs will be able to provide more than their listed wattage on the box, ie Corsair VX450 can provide 550w. Look for a high amp rating rather than wattage in a PSU, typically you'll see around 30-40 amps in 400-500w PSUs, 60-75 amps in 600-750w PSUs, and 80+ amps in 800w+ PSUs. Going for a name brand will make it easier to choose something that won't break easily as they usually live up and past their expectations, the two most trusted brands I know are Seasonic and Corsair (which are rebranded Seasonics), any model from any of their ranges would easily live up to its expectations and beyond.
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Offline Lupin

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Re: Power Supply Unit (PSU)
« Reply #10 on: March 15, 2010, 11:43:40 AM »
Modular or non-modular?
The only problem I can see in modular PSU is that the connections between your components and the PSU is much weaker than non modular ones.

Offline Proin Drakenzol

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Re: Power Supply Unit (PSU)
« Reply #11 on: March 15, 2010, 11:57:19 AM »
Modular: It'll make life so much easier
Multi-rail: The entra rail helps keep the voltage in your video card stable.
Bigger fan: Keeps it cooler.

[...]

As for brands, Corsair, OCZ, and PC Power&Cooling make good ones. Check the list of recomended PSUs for DFI boards though.

[...]

I agree. I personally use a Corsair kilowatt, modular, multi-rail PSU.

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Offline kureshii

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Re: Power Supply Unit (PSU)
« Reply #12 on: March 16, 2010, 03:56:50 PM »
On multi-rails
The Corsair HX series is not true multi-rail... except the HX1000. That is based on the same CWT platform as the Thermaltake Toughpower 1500W, and has 2 separate PFC circuits. Personally I'm not too concerned about multi-rail capability, and it's not a deciding factor for my PSU purchases. They don't actually help to stabilise voltages anyway, unless both rails are on separate filters (rather rare). The main reason for multi-rail systems is supposedly for safety, to avoid having >20A voltages on a single user-accessible cable.

Preferred PSUs
I tend to go for Seasonic-OEM units for <700W PSUs. That means mainly Corsair and Seasonic units. Seasonic's S12II series are a well-known budget option, their M12II are well-reputed mid-end units, and their X-series is one of the rare few fully modular, 80Plus Gold-rated PSUs. The Corsair VX/HX series have a similar reputation (the higher-wattage HX and TX units are CWT OEM PSUs though, not Seasonic.)

On modular cables
Modular cabling is nice, but it adds extra cost to the PSU. If neat cable management and the idea of not having to discreetly tuck away unused cables is important enough to you to justify the price premium, go for it. Not all modular PSUs are equal though, some are only partially modular, i.e. you get 24-pin mobo, 4-pin ATX12v/8-pin EPS12V, and maybe some PCIe cables from the PSU, while the rest of the cables are modular.

On fans
Whatever the fan used, all you need to look out for is whether it is quiet enough for you (if noise matters in your selection criteria), and provides enough cooling for the PSU. For that you'll have to check PSU reviews. Naturally, 120mm fans tend to be quieter and pull more air than 80mm fans, though that doesn't necessarily mean there aren't any quiet or effective 80mm fans.

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PSU wattage ratings (and why they matter less than most people think)
Here I might also venture that the wattage rating on a PSU is usually the least important consideration (assuming you're not just looking for a PSU that does the job cheaply enough, and are looking for a PSU that best suits your needs). There is no standard wattage rating method among manufacturers, and you'll often find both PSUs that can easily provide above their wattage rating, as well as PSUs that will crap themselves below their rated wattage. Manufacturer rating serves as a quick guide for filtering your PSU choices (it's a bad idea to use a PSU rated lower than your peak system power draw anyway...), but other than that it simply isn't very useful. This forum post summarises generically the various ways that less reputed PSU brands use to give their PSUs higher wattage ratings than they're actually capable of.

As an example, many generic or cheaper PSUs will have small-print stating that the rated power is peak power wattage and should not be sustained for more than 30 seconds (or thereabouts), or at temperatures above 50 degrees Celsius (which a heavily-loaded PSU can often exceed). On the other hand, there are also high-end units that are rated much lower than they can actually push, e.g. the Corsair HX1000. This is done for various reasons, e.g. for 80Plus certification. Since that certification requires >80% efficiency at 20%, 50% and 100% loads, manufacturers may rate the PSUs lower to ensure that at 100% of the rated load, efficiency still stays >80%. (You really shouldn't be buying non-80Plus rated PSUs for a good build, anyway.)

Rough PSU checklist
For most intents and purposes, you really just need to ensure that:

1)   The PSU isn't too inefficient at typical power loads. >80-85% is good enough for most people, go higher than that if you're an efficiency freak, or if  (like me) you like spending more money on performance factors that won't matter to most people.

2)   The PSU can comfortably handle your system's peak power loads for lengthy periods of time. You never know when you might want to try your hand at encoding or rendering, and the last thing you want is a PSU that starts (figuratively) sweating and panting at such loads. Note that this figurative effort has nothing to do with the rated wattage; at the very least, you want to ensure that the PSU doesn't run too hot (usually also indicating low efficiency or inadequate cooling) at such loads, which the manufacturer's wattage rating does not guarantee.

3)   The PSU actually meets your needs. This bundles various other factors, some of which have already been mentioned above:
a)     Ensure the cables are the right length (not too long if using an SFF case, and not too short if using a full tower case).
b)     Check that the PSU fits your computer case (important if you're using a SFF case).
c)     Has the connectors you need. Especially check for ATX12V/EPS12V connectors; cheaper motherboards tend to have the ATX12V connector housing, while high-end motherboards have EPS12V. Not all PSUs are ATX12V-compatible, if you're pairing a high-wattage PSU with a cheaper motherboard, make sure it is ATX12V-compatible. Vice-versa if pairing a low-wattage PSU with a high-end motherboard (check EPS12V compatibility).
d)     Has a cooling airflow path that is compatible with your case flow of choice. Most PSUs are now designed to pull air in front the side fan, and push it out the back (where the main power connector is plugged), but some older units still in stock (especially PC Power and Cooling units) pull air from the front (where the cables come out from) instead, or perhaps even use a back-to-front airflow pattern (quite rare though). This is probably a non-consideration if you're buying a brand new PSU.

This is a good guide for those looking for a quick list of recommended PSUs, and PSUs to avoid. You are still reminded to do your own reading though, and not to take everything at face value.

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On Fermi's reported power draw
Wait 10 more days and reviews of it will be out. Check the actual power draw for it then. If you read the relevant forum thread, the 42A current requirement is for the whole system, not the GPU alone. That shouldn't be too difficult for most good >600W units to achieve (would you trust an expensive Fermi card with a cheap PSU, anyway?).



@vuzedome: What do you want to know about kilowatt units? I have a Corsair HX1000W and Silverstone OP1000-E (don't ask... let's just say my build plans changed drastically), and have used both for some time, although I've never actually loaded them anywhere near their rated limits. With regards to manufacturer-provided cables, PSU size and user experience I can maybe help to answer some questions, although keep in mind that my system power draw is probably less than 200W in typical usage scenarios. I am slowly working towards getting a Seasonic X650 as a replacement, but in the meantime this is all I have :x
« Last Edit: March 18, 2010, 02:33:01 PM by kureshii »