Elfen Lied question (light spoiler)

[ltorrent]

Please, if someone knows japan, could you tell me what really Lucy says at 3:14 of episode 9? Fun translation (anime-fin) was "I hate you people" but on official U.S. DVD it was "I hate you all" said. Where is true?

[ZeroZero65]

"I hate you people", "I hate you all" isn't it same thing?

[ltorrent]

No, it is not the same. Because 'I hate you all' is like a neutral hating everyone around while 'I hate you people' means that she (diclonius) hates every human being...

[pyro-manic]

Not necessarily. Either translation could be taken to mean either of those things.

[nstgc]

I agree, they are likely the same.

(I hate) (you all) versus (I hate) (you people).

In this case "you all" almost certainly means "you people".

[Cypher]

line she said: お前たちが大嫌いだからだ
literal translation: Because I hate you alot!

he replies: お前たちって。。。？
literal translation: "you"...?

In both lines, the plural meaning of you was intended.

[ltorrent]

Cypher, thank you a lot!

Well, I see that everyone wants to convince me that 'you all' and 'you people' almost the same here. Because of first funsub most people sure that she says exactly 'I hate you people'. In my country even official translation was based on that fansub and it sounds exactly like 'I hate you, human being'. A lot of people like to cite it, but now I think that she actually doesn't say it, although I could agree that it might be assumed by her. Doesn't it look like a kind of translator's imagination? I hope you understand what I mean...

[Path]

Assuming that those lines are transcribed correctly, what she said was: "Omaetachi daikirai dakara da."

Omae means you (leaving aside the finer details of Japanese address), while tachi is simply a plural suffix. In other words, she's clearly talking about multiple individuals--without context it'd be impossible to specify, but since both "you all" and "you people" are widely used in English in lieu of the basic you, it looks accurate enough.

Omaetachi: You (plural intended)
Daikirai: Hate, loath
Dakara: Therefore, so (because works better here, however, or even "that's why," depending on what she said before this)
Da: Just the plain copula

You can probably figure out how they arrived at "I hate you all/people" now.

Tl;dr: There's nothing wrong with either translation.

[ltorrent]

Path, well, now I see. Maybe I'm not as good in English as I supposed to be...

So, when someone says in English 'I hate you people' the word 'people' here refers to every person around but not to human race (aka opposite to animals or plants or even aliens or so on). Am I right here?

I was influenced by Russian (first fansub and official DVD, they are almost the same and translated from English, not Japan) translations where 'I hate you people' was translated literally. There are a huge difference between Russian and English words, you can't just look into dictionary... So 'I hate you people' it turned into something that could be back-translated by meaning as 'I hate you (plural), where under you I mean every human being'. Sorry, Idk how to say it in English shortly, but in Russian it sounds very clearly.

That's why a lot of people in Russia think that Lucy said that she hates human being because she is a diclonius and not human being biologically. And she has a lot of reason to hate human race, indeed. And this cue is cited all-over internet in Russia... Maybe because everyone of us and not only in Russia have own reason to hate human race. But she didn't said it in such way, isn't it?

[Havoc10K]

l suggest understanding this as "I hate poeple, all of you!"
and she has every bit right to feel that way too.

[Path]

So, when someone says in English 'I hate you people' the word 'people' here refers to every person around but not to human race (aka opposite to animals or plants or even aliens or so on). Am I right here?

Yes. Either every person present, or every individual of a select group indicated by the context. Else, she'd likely have said "I hate you humans," "I hate mankind," or something to that effect.

I was influenced by Russian (first fansub and official DVD, they are almost the same and translated from English, not Japan) translations where 'I hate you people' was translated literally. There are a huge difference between Russian and English words, you can't just look into dictionary... So 'I hate you people' it turned into something that could be back-translated by meaning as 'I hate you (plural), where under you I mean every human being'. Sorry, Idk how to say it in English shortly, but in Russian it sounds very clearly.

That's why a lot of people in Russia think that Lucy said that she hates human being because she is a diclonius and not human being biologically. And she has a lot of reason to hate human race, indeed. And this cue is cited all-over internet in Russia... Maybe because everyone of us and not only in Russia have own reason to hate human race. But she didn't said it in such way, isn't it?

Basing a translation on another translation is rarely a good idea, though it makes me wonder what else they got wrong if this comparably easy passage was changed into something else entirely. Of course, omaetachi could theoretically be referring to humans in general, I suppose, though it seems like a strange way to phrase it if so.

[Havoc10K]

l don't remember the episode so l would actually have to know the context of the sentence to actualy acurately answer that, sadly my only copy is a merger of all episodes into one file made by me a long time ago with only one op/ed so l wouldn't know where it was

[ltorrent]

Havoc10K, Lucy said it when Kouta met her for the very first time in the childhood. Well, also you may look at youtube...


Path, thanks a lot.

Basing a translation on another translation is rarely a good idea, though it makes me wonder what else they got wrong if this comparably easy passage was changed into something else entirely.

Yeah, sure, but so few people know Japanese in Russia. No wonder that most of fansubs made from English but I really can't figure out how why officials DVD was made from fansub.

Well, in fact this passage really wasn't so easy to translate from English cos 'people' is really translated to Russian either in the way
as 'nation' or 'humans', there is no exact match. But this 'you people' is more like an idiom that you won't find in a dictionary... So we really can only imagine what else was changed... Luckily there was another fansub appeared made from US official DVD/AHQ. It was translated from English too, but much more accurately.

[Havoc10K]

ah yeh the russian do miss a few words here and there, no wonder tough since it's still a nationalistic country under the guise of democracy, as for it being (the official dvds) done from fansubs, that doesn't really surprise me. Fansubbers usually do much better work than profesional translators.

[ltorrent]

Hey! I can't even figure where you've found the guise of democracy in Russia - one leader, one party, criminal principles rules everywhere and 90% of people are fully satisfied with it. Russian democracy is only to show it to the West, but no only few people know something about democracy here. For most it doesn't matter if there is any democracy or they say that democracy is not good for Russia. Sorry for off topic. I just can't stand it.

[Havoc10K]

l guess you didn't see the sarcasm there.

[ltorrent]

Sorry, sorry, sorry.

Of course I saw sarcasm. I've understood what you've meant.

Just wanted to say what I've said very much. Sorry again.

[CptSpud]

I believe what she means is, "I hate you 'people,'" as to segregate herself from "people," by which she means humans. If you take it like this, then it means she hates all of mankind, which would not surprise me. I would reference the episode to make a more accurate assumption, but I lost Elfen Lied along with a bunch of other anime, so perhaps I'll go find the Japanese version on YouTube later.