preffered sub font

[nstgc]

There is currently another discussion going on about fansubs versus prosubs. One major issue seems to be the style of the font. So I figured I'd make a topic on the subject.

If I had to choose a single font style it would be as fallowed. My perfered font style is arial or any other stylized font, and bold. They tend to be easier to read. As for color, I like a dark solid blue (in the neighborhood of [00002c00]) and on the inside a pale transparent yellow (about [ffff80d0]). In both MPlayer and whatever CCCP uses the boarder is about a 4. Its easy to read and doesn't obstruct the video too much.

I like it when subbers change the color based on the hair color of the character speaking. It makes it much easier to tell who is talking (even in real life talking to real people in English I can have trouble distinguishing who is saying what). When they do I prefer the inside to be a transparent light gray ([d0d0d0d0]) and the outside border to match the hair as closely as possible.

I'd give an example, but I think that most subbers do a good enough job that its not worth changing. The last time I went to the trouble to change it was for the old rips of Card Captor.

My biggest problem with the DVD subs is that they are terribly blocky at which resolutions. Many of E-D's subs are like that as well except in an ugly gray color.

[Sosseres]

I don't have my subtitle settings set up correctly right now due to a fresh re-install. So settings taken from memory. ^^

But once I get around to it again I'll have Gungush font, normal bold, with a green colour with black border. Border width around 4 or so and shadow around 3. The biggest problem I have is with font size, I tend to end up around 36-48 size in the directvobsub settings.

I also like the per character coding of subtitles. Sometimes it makes the subtitles hard to read though. :/

[Chef]

I think it depends on whether the subs are hardcoded or soft. Softsubs have the additional concerns of compatibility with users and thus have to be fairly common. If we could all decide on an uncommon, but excellent font it would be possible to just add a download link to the font. The decision would have to be near unanimous though which I think is unlikely.

I don't know too much as I have only a small experience... I know that I've disliked subs that have this white on red scheme going on, especially when there's more red than white. I think the ideal is white on black, with a friendly, spacey style.

I think the best way to make a good argument for this is just to have comparison images and polls. One for fonts that basically everyone should have, and another for uncommon fonts that might be ideal for hardcoded subs. The latter is probably the more interesting of the two, since soft subs can be changed to whatever suits the viewer (albeit a tech savvy viewer).

[bobjoe]

I think the best way to make a good argument for this is just to have comparison images and polls. One for fonts that basically everyone should have, and another for uncommon fonts that might be ideal for hardcoded subs. The latter is probably the more interesting of the two, since soft subs can be changed to whatever suits the viewer (albeit a tech savvy viewer).

For styled subs, the font is INCLUDED in the mkv file, so it doesn't matter what fonts the user has installed.

As for my opinion on the matter of preferred styling, I'll say I prefer:

• A wide, Serif font (I know most people say Sans-Serif is easier to read on a TV, but on a computer screen I prefer Serif)
• Solid white letters with thick colored borders
• NO transparency or drop shadows
• Colorcoding based on hair color (with the border being the part that changes color) is my favorite "extra" feature, but it's rarely done
• I also prefer EVERYTHING suftsubbed, because I render the subs at desktop resolution, and scaled hardsubbed text looks really ugly

[Chef]

I only ever watched one anime that included the fonts (Death Note, but not from bakaBT), and for some reason they didn't install properly. I got squares all over the intro, and the torrent seemed to be really meticulously put together... with previews in seperate files and a bunch of weird junk (though I guess I could investigate more to see if it's not just really bad video hardcoded). I think for the sake of simplicity it's worth it not ask the user to install your random fonts. Still, my experience is isolated and it might just have been a rare case.

It's hard to think of a time when I'd want highly stylized subs though, just because I personally think they're distracting. Subs should be minimalist because they have nothing to do with the intentions of the anime. If you start making them funny colours, I might start associating characters with that colour... which can change the meaning of what's going on. Maybe the subber thinks a character is evil, so he gives him a dark looking colour... That doesn't give me a chance to decide for myself, and it's plot spoiling. It requires the subber to be very mature in their design desisions, which is something that might be rare in non-professionals.

Hardsubs are basically convinient for people like me who don't want to watch anime on their computer... I put it on my PMP instead (Cowon S9). Subtitle and MKV support is very uncommon on portable players, so I don't think Hardsubbing should be forgotten yet, as doing it myself takes forever and often requires troubleshooting.

[nstgc]

I have only once had ASS subs in mkv containers fail and I use Ubuntu as my primary OS. MS fonts aren't standard, for obvious reasons.

I have never, not once, seen an anime where they color the subs differently for a character based on anything other than hair color. If you want to start thinking up every possible negative consequence of prosubs versus fansubs, this discussion could quickly decline into lock'dom.

[Scudworth]

I like it when fansubs give different colour subs for diff. people.
It was very useful in Shuffle as they matched them up with their hair colours.
and I off the top of my head also bottle fairy.
I can follow it much easier when everyone is talking at once.

[miasmacloud]

Doing hair color-based subs is fucking retarded.
See: Characters with blond hair.

[Mag-X]

I do like when they match the subs to hair color, but I've only ever seen that on hard subbed AVIs.
The most important thing is font. I want Helvetica, or something similar like Arial. I hate when they do stupid shit like bright green cursive subs.

If I don't notice the subs, they're working correctly. I shouldn't realize I'm reading them.

[Hizoka003]

for me it depends on the anime, some anime just seem to call out for a special font. then there are things like OP with the way KF started having special fonts for special movies, that just really fits in that anime.

every anime is unique so i don't think i could settle for just one font/color, it needs to be what it suited for that anime

[alex.vision]

Is it just me or are stylized fonts hard to read,  the fonts that are almost like cursive strain my eyes and brain.

[Sosseres]

I have never, not once, seen an anime where they color the subs differently for a character based on anything other than hair color. If you want to start thinking up every possible negative consequence of prosubs versus fansubs, this discussion could quickly decline into lock'dom.

A.F.K release of Full Moon wo Sagashite is one of my favourite examples of it being done. Though it can be argued it is done on hair colour most of the time even in that series. What I like the most is that the main colour changes making it really easy to spot the difference.

All in all it is one of my favourite fansubs, probably due to how much I like the series.

[kureshii]

The only example of multi-coloured subs I remember liking is from Mochi's release of Letter Bee. They used a dark blue outline for the main dialogue, and dark grey outline for lines in flashback scenes, which had a sepia filter applied. It fit like a glove, and was quite aesthetically pleasing.

[iindigo]

I typically don't override sub settings, as there have been a total of maybe two MKV releases in which I did not like the sub styling. I've had far more trouble with vobsubs, what with they're way of sitting almost in the middle of the screen and blaring yellow at my eyes - distracting as hell and makes me miss half the animation.

[bobjoe]

I've had far more trouble with vobsubs, what with they're way of sitting almost in the middle of the screen and blaring yellow at my eyes - distracting as hell and makes me miss half the animation.

For this reason, I absolutely refuse to download a vobsub release. I watch only soft-text-subs or hardsubs (when there is no soft-text option). Imagesubs/vobsubs are just too cancer to look at for long.

[Havoc10K]

I also like the per character coding of subtitles. Sometimes it makes the subtitles hard to read though. :/

l really enjoy the anime when each character has their own subs colored out, it's really interesting, and you can really follow the plot, true that in some years ago those fonts sometimes were hard to follow, but lately it was really enjoyable.

[Zalis116]

My preferred styling is any bolded "boring" sans-serif font, like Arial, Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Abadi, Century Gothic, or Lucida Sans. Especially Lucida Sans. Some serif fonts can work, if the other parameters are good. Text Color: Pure white (for fansubs) or mostly-pure yellow (for R1-rips), like #HCCCC00. Border: 2-3 pixels, pure black, 100% opaque. Shadow: 1-2, pure black, 50% transparent. Margins: 6-8% of the video dimensions, so for 1280x720 that would be around 96 Left/Right, 54 Vertical. I don't really care about "subs fitting the style of the anime," because I don't think subs should be part of the aesthetic. They're just text, there to be read quickly and mentally filed away.  Sure, it's nice when fansubbers pull it off, but you're just as likely to get impractical garbage like these subs or these, all in the name of "fitting the anime."

I like it when fansubs give different colour subs for diff. people.
It was very useful in Shuffle as they matched them up with their hair colours.
and I off the top of my head also bottle fairy.
I can follow it much easier when everyone is talking at once.

The best multicolor/hair-matching subs I've seen were in Arienai's Pretty Cure releases. Those remained readable because they actually changed the colors of the text and used black borders to prevent the colors from blending into the backgrounds. The problem with letting the border define the subtitle colors is that when they match too closely to hair or whatever, you wind up with situations like this.

I have never, not once, seen an anime where they color the subs differently for a character based on anything other than hair color.

This release does non-hair-based character coding, pretty much at random. The results aren't good.

I typically don't override sub settings, as there have been a total of maybe two MKV releases in which I did not like the sub styling. I've had far more trouble with vobsubs, what with they're way of sitting almost in the middle of the screen and blaring yellow at my eyes - distracting as hell and makes me miss half the animation.

I made a run-down of the various DVD subtitle styles in this post and few or none of them struck me as "almost in the middle of the screen". You'll also note that not all of them use yellow. I know we've had this conversation before, but I miss more of the animation when I'm trying to parse out overstyled "aesthetically pleasing" fansubs spanning from corner to corner at the very bottom of the screen. That's why I override something or other on just about every softsubbed .mkv release I watch these days.

For this reason, I absolutely refuse to download a vobsub release. I watch only soft-text-subs or hardsubs (when there is no soft-text option). Imagesubs/vobsubs are just too cancer to look at for long.

That's a shame, because some shows aren't available any other way.

True that in some years ago those fonts sometimes were hard to follow, but lately it was really enjoyable.

I can't fully agree. To some extent, older fansub stylings were better, because they used simpler fonts, thicker borders, more contrasting colors, and sometimes more margins. Possibly because everything was hardsubbed back then, so they didn't have the "Can't read it? Well it's softsubbed, you can change it" cop-out that modern fansubs routinely employ.  For instance this early 2002 release is great styling in my book. And somehow, people back then watched the show and survived that color without dying of cancer or whatever. Hardsubs that allow me to sit back and watch from 1.5m away >>> softsubs that force me to override styling in every episode.

*Having seen some anime on DVD via an HD projector at my local anime club, I can agree that aliasing on imagesubs is an objectively measurable problem on high-res displays. That's why I've been doing OCR and providing .srts on some shows for the community's benefit. Call me a crazed crusader if you will, but I do keep others' preferences/wants in mind. Sometimes

[iindigo]

I made a run-down of the various DVD subtitle styles in this post and few or none of them struck me as "almost in the middle of the screen". You'll also note that not all of them use yellow. I know we've had this conversation before, but I miss more of the animation when I'm trying to parse out overstyled "aesthetically pleasing" fansubs spanning from corner to corner at the very bottom of the screen. That's why I override something or other on just about every softsubbed .mkv release I watch these days.

Well, I have yet to download any vobsubs that aren't white or state road yellow. But then again, I avoid vobsubs whenever possible. As for "middle of the screen" and all that, it's obviously an exaggeration, but after becoming used to fansubs which are more modern in some aspects (such as not having to worry about overscan since CRTs are nigh extinct when it comes to monitors), they really get on one's nerves because it feels like they're vying for more attention that the actual content itself. When subs are lower in position on the screen, it feels like I'm actually watching a show instead of reading a book with animated backgrounds on the pages.

I can't fully agree. To some extent, older fansub stylings were better, because they used simpler fonts, thicker borders, more contrasting colors, and sometimes more margins. Possibly because everything was hardsubbed back then, so they didn't have the "Can't read it? Well it's softsubbed, you can change it" cop-out that modern fansubs routinely employ.  For instance this early 2002 release is great styling in my book. And somehow, people back then watched the show and survived that color without dying of cancer or whatever. Hardsubs that allow me to sit back and watch from 1.5m away >>> softsubs that force me to override styling in every episode.

There's a nice medium to be found. As far as width goes, I tend to like how Eclipse styles most of its releases, which typically take up between 70%-80% of the bottom of the screen. In comparison, vobsubs often feel forced into a narrow column that eats up far too much vertical space.

[bobjoe]

For this reason, I absolutely refuse to download a vobsub release. I watch only soft-text-subs or hardsubs (when there is no soft-text option). Imagesubs/vobsubs are just too cancer to look at for long.

That's a shame, because some shows aren't available any other way.

I've never had a problem finding a hardsubbed/softsubbed release of anything I ever looked up. I'm sure there are hundreds of old obscure anime that I'll never want to watch that aren't avaliable any other way, but even if I did want to watch something like that, OCR'ing vobsubs isn't impossible (obviously it isn't trivial and it can easily take longer than just watching the whole episode, but I would do it if I really had to).

[Tiffanys]

My preferred styling is any bolded "boring" sans-serif font, like Arial, Tahoma, Verdana, Helvetica, Abadi, Century Gothic, or Lucida Sans. Especially Lucida Sans. Some serif fonts can work, if the other parameters are good. Text Color: Pure white (for fansubs) or mostly-pure yellow (for R1-rips), like #HCCCC00. Border: 2-3 pixels, pure black, 100% opaque. Shadow: 1-2, pure black, 50% transparent. Margins: 6-8% of the video dimensions, so for 1280x720 that would be around 96 Left/Right, 54 Vertical. I don't really care about "subs fitting the style of the anime," because I don't think subs should be part of the aesthetic. They're just text, there to be read quickly and mentally filed away.  Sure, it's nice when fansubbers pull it off, but you're just as likely to get impractical garbage like these subs or these, all in the name of "fitting the anime."

Oh, I sooooo agree with this. I can't stand those extremely fancy fonts. They're just so hard to read that it takes away from the point of even having a sub in the first place. Subs should definitely be for reading, not fitting the anime. I spend so freakin' long trying to make out what it says because I read those stupid fonts way slower than normal that I end up having to pause or be very active in trying to read, so much so that I hardly even get to watch the animation at all and just feel exhausted by the time the episode's over.

Just recently I had to download a different version of a sub because the font the first group used was horrendous (pretty much like your Rosario + Vampire example, like so). I would've just changed the sub per each episode, but they were hardsubbed. Grr...

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I also don't like subs that are too BIG. It makes it really hard to read and gets in the way (example).

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As for subs... Pretty much exactly what Zalis said. "Normal" fonts, white.

I've never seen subs colored based on the character's hair color... I think that'd actually kinda be neat... I know I've been confused as hell as to who was saying what in some animes (also a problem in the Fate/Stay Night game...).