Author Topic: Old?  (Read 3562 times)

Offline GoGeTa006

  • Member
  • Posts: 6863
  • The fate of destruction is also the joy of Rebirth
    • Anime Planet listing
Old?
« on: April 25, 2010, 04:25:42 AM »
So I have this Athlon 64 1.8 Ghz 2 GB PC.

It had windows xp installed on it. I decided to delete everything and reinstall and while Im at it do windows 7.
It had some issues that it barely turned on so anyways.

I installed and everything went great. . .but the screen has this lines (like if it was a dead-pixel line) but its not the monitor (I tried CRT and LCD monitors) it has this weird things. . .I tought maybe it was the directx firmware or something so I updated everything. Then maybe I tought it was the video card so I downloaded the newest drivers (nvidia 6600 128 mb)
And I keep getting this lines. . .
One thing I did notice is that the little cooling fan that is attached to the motherboard (not the processor) doesnt spin anymore. . .IM guessing that means that the motherboard is near-death or prolly just zombified already. . .
you guys think it still worth trying to fix that!?

Offline Proin Drakenzol

  • Member
  • Posts: 2296
  • Tiny Dragon Powers of Doom!
Re: Old?
« Reply #1 on: April 25, 2010, 06:05:31 AM »
No, just build a new comp. You can build one fairly cheaply.

The linear nature of your Euclidean geometry both confounds and befuddles me.

Offline NaRu

  • Member
  • Posts: 15225
Re: Old?
« Reply #2 on: April 25, 2010, 06:55:22 AM »
I wouldn't waste my time or money fixing that computer. The CPU is so weak compare to the current CPUs. Just build a new one

Offline Klocknov

  • Member
  • Posts: 1176
  • 次に魅力を消えます。彼らの左側ですか?
    • Klocknov's Blog!
Re: Old?
« Reply #3 on: April 25, 2010, 07:01:43 AM »
I agree, it would be more cost effective to build a new one over trying to save that one.
When Cookies become alcoholics the world has issues, oh wait that has already happened!
When I was growing up I wanted to become a queen, now that I did, I have to avoid brats chasing me with bats.
When the charm wears off, what do you have then?

Offline nstgc

  • Member
  • Posts: 7758
    • http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com
Re: Old?
« Reply #4 on: April 25, 2010, 01:27:49 PM »
He could still salvage his case, ODD and HDD probably. He'd definitely need a new CPU which would require a new motherboard and RAM. He probably should also get a new PSU since the one he has is probably too old (the PSU is the last thing you want to have die on you). The video card is slower than modern onboard video chips (I think).

Yeah, salvage what you can and build a new computer.

Offline GoGeTa006

  • Member
  • Posts: 6863
  • The fate of destruction is also the joy of Rebirth
    • Anime Planet listing
Re: Old?
« Reply #5 on: April 25, 2010, 08:33:52 PM »
Actually most parts are amazing for its time (it was like 1k at the time)

it has 2 SATA 300 GB hard drives
DVD ROM
DVD RW
Firewire


It has a 400W PSU. . .I got another skeleton somewhere with a 550W. . .I think that should cover a new one huh?

Offline nstgc

  • Member
  • Posts: 7758
    • http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com
Re: Old?
« Reply #6 on: April 25, 2010, 08:59:13 PM »
If it were me, even if I had a 1kW PSU, if it was old, I wouldn't use it. I'd rather spend an extra $100 for a new one.

What will you be using this computer for?

Offline GoGeTa006

  • Member
  • Posts: 6863
  • The fate of destruction is also the joy of Rebirth
    • Anime Planet listing
Re: Old?
« Reply #7 on: April 25, 2010, 09:46:03 PM »
If it were me, even if I had a 1kW PSU, if it was old, I wouldn't use it. I'd rather spend an extra $100 for a new one.

What will you be using this computer for?

Well, Its not for me actually its for my (kinda) boss. . .he's a photographer, this computer (The old one in discussion) was his old computer, he still uses it (mostly because of the hard drives filled with pictures) but he just bought an i7 based computer (pretty sweet).

I use most of his computers (he has quite a lot) and I'd have to say for this one to be this old it still runs (when it worked) quite smoothly on XP.

This computer he plans on using it. . .amm I dont really know I've told him a couple of times to trow it away. . .He said his wife will use it, she designs the albums (she uses photoshop a little bit and some album-creator program)

So Id like to say it will be used for media editing. . .but not that much.

Offline Perplexing

  • Member
  • Posts: 73
Re: Old?
« Reply #8 on: April 26, 2010, 11:53:06 AM »
Actually most parts are amazing for its time (it was like 1k at the time)

it has 2 SATA 300 GB hard drives
DVD ROM
DVD RW
Firewire


It has a 400W PSU. . .I got another skeleton somewhere with a 550W. . .I think that should cover a new one huh?

Not bad for parts to be used on a new build/rebuild computer. However (agree or disagree) I am cautious of PSU 550w should be plenty for most builds, however I would make sure it was one from a well know PSU maker. I have had some problems with lesser known companies PSU. Also make sure if you go the route of an add-on video card that the 550w is capable of handling it's needs.

Once you figure out all that you are going to put it I highly recommend going here

http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp

This site will take all of your build info and give you a rough estimate of the power needed to run. More than likely the 550w should be enough. My current computer required
462w to run and I went with a Corsair 850w that way I would have ample power and be prepared for a possible upgrade in graphics card or going SLI or 3x SLI in the future.

I highly recommend Corsair, OCZ, and Cooler Master as these three have been very good makers of PSU's for me

Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | [url=http://www.anime-planet.com/

Offline kyanwan

  • Member
  • Posts: 1880
  • 口寄せ・穢土転生!
Re: Old?
« Reply #9 on: April 26, 2010, 07:25:34 PM »
Replacing the chipset fan (is that what's broken?) is about a $10 undertaking.

Replacing the MB & CPU is about a $200 undertaking.

I wouldn't go with Win7 on that machine.   XP is required, imo.

For a free system that's better than a $500 netbook, it's not that bad.  :P

It's not a bad pc for browsing, work, and some casual stuff.   You won't be playing any HD video on it, or playing any new games ... but free is good.  Otherwise, it would make a really sweet linux play-box.   I've  got a 700mhz P3 box that I mess around with - great for playing around with new code, testing, and learning the OS & such.  ( Trash computer I patched up.  It was a pure piece of shit. )

( it was free, yea? )    

See if you can get it running, but I wouldn't spend more than $10-20 on it.   But hey, it's 2x better than my testbed PC - so it's not that bad - lmao. 
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 07:31:51 PM by kyanwan »
Nothing.

Offline Temuthril

  • Member
  • Posts: 1140
Re: Old?
« Reply #10 on: April 26, 2010, 09:32:28 PM »
You won't be playing any HD video on it

Lower end 720ps could work with CoreAVC.

Offline NaRu

  • Member
  • Posts: 15225
Re: Old?
« Reply #11 on: April 26, 2010, 09:46:18 PM »
If you need a new computer let me know. I get discounts on newegg since I spent many dollars on there

Offline nstgc

  • Member
  • Posts: 7758
    • http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com
Re: Old?
« Reply #12 on: April 26, 2010, 10:27:46 PM »
Replacing the MB & CPU is about a $200 undertaking.

Those two together would cost less actually.

With a about 5 minutes of effort I found the fallowing on newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103687 (CPU $60)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186188 (mobo $40)

Then the RAM will cost $60.

S&H is $6 so for $166 you can get those three things. Not the best in the world, but its not too bad either. While the GPU is slower, I do believe the VRAM is slower than the DDR3 system RAM will be.

[edit] The RAM on the 6600 is father.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2010, 10:31:16 PM by nstgc »

Offline whiic

  • Member
  • Posts: 25
Re: Old?
« Reply #13 on: April 26, 2010, 11:05:29 PM »
What does it mean you've undated "directx firmware"? Firmware is software stored on flash memory located on graphics card itself, drive is something you install to your harddrive and which is used by your operating system to know how to communicate with the graphics card, and DirectX is some kind of abstraction layer common between GPUs (GPUs are made compatible with DirectX, not the other way around, thus differing from drivers). They're three different things. And all of them are updatable.

My suggestions:
- which ever of the three you updated, update the lacking two
- run Prime95 in Torture Test mode to check for stability. It'll run fast Fourier transformations (FFT) and compare the results of known correct answer, trying to find system instability caused by miscalculation.
- try different screen resolutions.

If the lines are present always, even during BIOS POST or BIOS setup screen, exclude driver and DirectX from possible cause. Also excuse northbridge overheating from explanation as it takes several minutes to heat up to the point of showing any instability. GPU hardware or GPU firmware is the problem. Alternatively it could be that motherboard is permanently damaged and doesn't even function normally even when it's not overheated. (If the problems are limited to graphics, then is likely GPU and not motherboard that is toast.)

If the lines aren't there during boot but are present immediately after the boot it may be related to anything software, firmware or hardware. It can be explained by lines being present only with certain resolutions (boot-up procedure doesn't typically use a high resolution). The lines appearing immediately after boot should also excuse overheating of northbridge or overheating of GPU as possible cause. Even if fan failed they'd stay relatively cool for some minutes.

If problems aren't immediately present when booted to Windows but appear soon after, your hardware is toast and/or overheating. No driver, directX or firmware update can save it, fan swap can possibly fix it (unless the fan on GPU is already working, in which case replacing it wouldn't probably do anything (as long as it spins even a little is usually enough to provide bare minimum amount of cooling to keep it stable (especially under 2D use (no 3D acceleration)).

Yeah, I've had GPU issue with... with 2 or 3 cards so far. First was some old ATI card that seized it's fan. I replaced it with a passive heatsink (a small northbridge heatsink torn from a dead motherboard), making it stable for up to 30 minutes of high GPU load. Not good for gaming fix but even years later, it's still used for web surfing and perfectly stable at that. No "artefacts".

Also slightly problematic were passively cooled ATI HD2400Pro and nVidia 6200 (both passively cooled from factory). Both had their share of oddities. Too bad I don't remember what exactly they issues were.

Nowadays running passively cooled (this time with heatpipes) Sapphire ATI HD4670. This is actually problem free GPU *touch wood*. And a killer performer for a passive one. In fact the Sapphire's cooling solution is more effective than the fan-based variants using the same ATI chip. Never managed to get it overheated, not even during FurMarking (like Prime95 torture test but tortures GPU instead of CPU).

If the lines appear only after it has warmed up, and you've made sure it's not GPU at fault, swapping northbridge cooler may help. There are however other components on motherboard that heat up. It's not usually northbridge overheat that causes issues but capacitor leakage/drying (accelerated by long-term overheating). Capacitor trouble may become worse when warmed up but can also be present on cold starts. Potential trouble include:
instability during Prime95 (though it mainly tests CPU for calculation errors)
odd system freezes that don't necessarily even give you bluescreen of death
incapability to boot or inconsistent boot-up success (immediate freezes to freezes in midway to booting OS)
data corruption on stuff that is written to HDDs

I've had to fix two of my computers that suffered from capacitor plague. Desolder electrolytic caps (usually Chinese crap) and replace them with low-ESR Japanese-made capacitors rated for 105 deg C (standard 85 deg C isn't good for elcaps located near hot components).

Here's something to read to make a visual inspection: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

Note that out of the two I fixed, only one showed visible signs of capacitor plague.

Offline Perplexing

  • Member
  • Posts: 73
Re: Old?
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2010, 11:25:19 PM »
Replacing the MB & CPU is about a $200 undertaking.

Those two together would cost less actually.

With a about 5 minutes of effort I found the fallowing on newegg.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819103687 (CPU $60)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186188 (mobo $40)

Then the RAM will cost $60.

S&H is $6 so for $166 you can get those three things. Not the best in the world, but its not too bad either. While the GPU is slower, I do believe the VRAM is slower than the DDR3 system RAM will be.

[edit] The RAM on the 6600 is father.

Honestly that wouldn't be a bad setup. Although personally while looking at the less expensive motherboards I would have to spend a tad more and go with this board

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131619&cm_re=amd-_-13-131-619-_-Product

Two main reasons it offers two more sata ports than the foxconn and it's integrated graphics allows for a DVI hookup. all for $65.00 plus a $2.99 S&H cost.
I would go this route personally due to upgrading ability. You never know when you may decide to buy a Phenom II or add another hard drive or two to go along with the ones you currently have. Of course that depends on GoGeTa006 computing preferences and or amount of anime they wish to store  ;D

Also either the 400w or 550w PSU you have should be plenty good enough for this.

Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | [url=http://www.anime-planet.com/

Offline GoGeTa006

  • Member
  • Posts: 6863
  • The fate of destruction is also the joy of Rebirth
    • Anime Planet listing
Re: Old?
« Reply #15 on: April 27, 2010, 12:17:39 AM »
Replacing the chipset fan (is that what's broken?) is about a $10 undertaking.

Replacing the MB & CPU is about a $200 undertaking.

I wouldn't go with Win7 on that machine.   XP is required, imo.

For a free system that's better than a $500 netbook, it's not that bad.  :P

It's not a bad pc for browsing, work, and some casual stuff.   You won't be playing any HD video on it, or playing any new games ... but free is good.  Otherwise, it would make a really sweet linux play-box.   I've  got a 700mhz P3 box that I mess around with - great for playing around with new code, testing, and learning the OS & such.  ( Trash computer I patched up.  It was a pure piece of shit. )

( it was free, yea? )    

See if you can get it running, but I wouldn't spend more than $10-20 on it.   But hey, it's 2x better than my testbed PC - so it's not that bad - lmao. 

where? If i may get directions. . .?

Offline fohfoh

  • Member
  • Posts: 12031
  • Mod AznV~ We don't call it "Live Action"
Re: Old?
« Reply #16 on: April 27, 2010, 02:19:58 AM »
You buy a fan and hook it up? I used to remove that thing all the time cuz there used to be shitloads of dust that would literally cake on top of the heat sink. It's easy.
This is your home now. So take advantage of everything here, except me.

Offline GoGeTa006

  • Member
  • Posts: 6863
  • The fate of destruction is also the joy of Rebirth
    • Anime Planet listing
Re: Old?
« Reply #17 on: April 27, 2010, 03:02:17 AM »
You buy a fan and hook it up? I used to remove that thing all the time cuz there used to be shitloads of dust that would literally cake on top of the heat sink. It's easy.

yeah but its like a 2cm fan. . .its not like i can just place a 12cm fan over that tiny heat sink

Offline kyanwan

  • Member
  • Posts: 1880
  • 口寄せ・穢土転生!
Re: Old?
« Reply #18 on: April 27, 2010, 07:22:02 PM »
where? If i may get directions. . .?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835425007&nm_mc=OTC-Froogle&cm_mmc=OTC-Froogle-_-Mem ory+++Chipset+Cooling-_-VIZO+Technology-_-35425007
($13.99)

You gotta get that fan off the chipset, and put a new one on.  I've used this one as a good replacement on an Asus A8N-e series board (defective fans) running an Athlon 64 FX55 - works nice.

I also have used this one on the same board:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835118014&cm_re=Zalman_chipset-_-35-118-014-_-Product ($9.50)

The zalman one, though it looks nice, I would never buy again.   It's a real pain in the ass to install - and it's too big.  Really high, and where the chip is - it can hit your video card ... and that's never good.  I uninstalled one of them and replaced it with the vizo one.   It's been running about a year or two, and has worked nicely. 

The chipset cooler is probably clipped in with 2 plastic pins.  Get a needlenose or other small pilers - and squeeze the pin from under the board ( it's like an expanding arrow lock thing.  The pin usually looks like this: http://ep.yimg.com/ca/I/yhst-50621372921554_2096_6676915 - white plastic pin right in the foreground of the picture.  )  See if you can pull it out from the top of the board once you have it squeezed.   If you can't, just twist off the bottom real carefully ( don't scratch or touch the board ) from the bottom - while holding the top still --- OR --- you can snap off the top where it holds the pin down.  Either way should work to break it off.    They're pretty weak, so it can just break right off.   If it has thermal tape on it, you'll want to slowly work it off by twisting it side-to-side.  It may have a paste under it as well ... that may be very rigid due to being old.   Same thing as the thermal tape - just work it slow & easy, it'll wear out.   Don't try lifting it - if secured - until you feel it's good and loose. 

The new fan should have installation instructions on how to secure it and all that.   Make sure the pins are the right distance before you pull off the old one.
Nothing.

Offline Hizoka003

  • Member
  • Posts: 213
Re: Old?
« Reply #19 on: April 27, 2010, 07:25:32 PM »
how do people use the small PSUs??? i run half a dozen HDDs and a dual GPU vid card... i wouldn't try turning on my computer with less then a 700 watt PSU