Video playback on a netbook

[vuzedome]

Might get one of these to replace my bigger and over sized HTPC.
Audio isn't really my biggest concern, ffdshow can do everything if you know how to configure it, and I got my PS3 to do blu-ray instead.

[namaiki]

both the Geforce 9400 and HD 3200 do not have the grunt to process 1080p bitrates!!

Just trying to be accurate. The graphics cards do not use shaders to decode video, which is why the lower end video cards should not have problems with higher resolution video. From what I have heard, they basically have a separate video decoding circuit on the card.

Also, CoreAVC's CUDA is different to DXVA. CoreAVC's 'CUDA video acceleration' uses the same above video decoder, but then keeps the video in memory unlike DXVA, and that is why you can have CoreAVC's video output go through video filters and DirectVobSub, which you cannot do with DXVA.

Lastly, beware of which video card you pick in your netbook. For instance, the Geforce 9400M has VP3, which means it cannot accelerate H.264/AVC videos of certain widths. For instance, it cannot accelerate a video that is 1024x576, though it can accelerate a 1280x720 video. Radeon cards seem to have a limitation about which level (level as in, H.264 Level 5.1 is a level) of H.264 they can decode - though this might have been fixed in the latest drivers

And again, note that you have to use a media player that supports DXVA in order to utilise DXVA.
For instance, Media Player Classic Homecinema (MPC Decoder, Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder), Windows Media Player (on Windows 7, but generally only if you don't need subtitles) and soon XBMC.

And again, if you are using the GPU to decode video, the CPU still has to decode audio, unless you are sending that to a receiver as stated before. If the CPU is decoding the video, the GPU is only displaying the video. As fohfoh has previously said, even an 'intel 950 which is an older graphics card' can do that. Though if you are using a video renderer that uses shaders to rescale the video, then you might have problems on slower video cards for that.

[sapsa]

Topix and replays like this make me think "OMG MY NEW BIBLE" ..

Please continue

[lapa321]

Just trying to be accurate. The graphics cards do not use shaders to decode video, which is why the lower end video cards should not have problems with higher resolution video. From what I have heard, they basically have a separate video decoding circuit on the card.

Cool! That means the 3D benchmarks are irrelevant. So i guess now i just have to see if there are reviews that did some sort of video benchmark. The U230 has better CPU and memory bandwidth, so it might actually have the edge here?

Also, CoreAVC's CUDA is different to DXVA. CoreAVC's 'CUDA video acceleration' uses the same above video decoder, but then keeps the video in memory unlike DXVA, and that is why you can have CoreAVC's video output go through video filters and DirectVobSub, which you cannot do with DXVA.

Aw crap, i did another round of googling and read that subtitles take a lot of power. I can choose between those two right? Or does the hardware have to support them?

Lastly, beware of which video card you pick in your netbook. For instance, the Geforce 9400M has VP3, which means it cannot accelerate H.264/AVC videos of certain widths. For instance, it cannot accelerate a video that is 1024x576, though it can accelerate a 1280x720 video. Radeon cards seem to have a limitation about which level (level as in, H.264 Level 5.1 is a level) of H.264 they can decode - though this might have been fixed in the latest drivers

Bakabt has every video size out there, so it might actually get affected by the size limitation. I'm not sure what a h.264 level is tho, does it affect the anime here?

And again, note that you have to use a media player that supports DXVA in order to utilise DXVA.
For instance, Media Player Classic Homecinema (MPC Decoder, Microsoft DTV-DVD video decoder), Windows Media Player (on Windows 7, but generally only if you don't need subtitles) and soon XBMC.

Windows 7 Media Player may not be an issue. It actually plays videos better than MPC on the netbook. And the decoder icon also appears on the taskbar like it does on MPC so you can still select the subtitles.

[namaiki]

Cool! That means the 3D benchmarks are irrelevant. So i guess now i just have to see if there are reviews that did some sort of video benchmark. The U230 has better CPU and memory bandwidth, so it might actually have the edge here?
.....
I think the U230's L335 CPU should be able to play at least 720p videos on it's own. It has the same clock speed as my Intel L7500 which can just play 1080p, but hopefully the AMD CPU isn't weak with multimedia or anything like that.

Aw crap, i did another round of googling and read that subtitles take a lot of power. I can choose between those two right? Or does the hardware have to support them?
.....
Most notebook GPU chipsets will support DXVA. For netbook chipsets, you should  check for support in hardware and software that can use it, just to be safe. CoreAVC's video acceleration will only run on more recent nVidia GPUs (I think on Geforce 8xxx and higher).

If you want subtitles with DXVA, you need to use Media Player Classic Homecinema's internal subtitle renderer or ffdshow DXVA video decoder's subtitle renderer, the former having better looking subtitles IMO.

Bakabt has every video size out there, so it might actually get affected by the size limitation. I'm not sure what a h.264 level is tho, does it affect the anime here?
.....
According to nVidia, VP3 apparently won't accelerate H.264 videos with widths of 769-784, 849-864, 929-944, 1009-1024, 1793-1808, 1873-1888, 1953-1968, 2033-2048 pixels. For a few examples of H.264 level, Eclipse's Maid-sama is High@L5.0, UTW and SS's Angel Beats is High@L4.1. You can find the encoding profile using Media Info (sometimes lies though).

Windows 7 Media Player may not be an issue. It actually plays videos better than MPC on the netbook. And the decoder icon also appears on the taskbar like it does on MPC so you can still select the subtitles.
.....
If you're using DirectVobSub/VSFilter then you're not utilising DXVA, but I guess it doesn't matter if it's still playing without issues.
For DXVA + subtitles, you need to be using the ffdshow DXVA video decoder which has it's own subtitle renderer or CoreAVC or MPC-HC's internal subtitle renderer.

@sapsa: I don't get it.
@lapa321: too lazy to quote and re-quote..

[lapa321]

Since i couldn't find any netbook specific reviews, i broadened my search and came up with this.

http://imouto.my/watching-h264-videos-using-dxva/

I have an I5-750 / ATI 5850. I figure that since it's also from ATI, it might be a good way to test what video acceleration was about. The results were mixed.

The Planet Earth and the Kanon videos. They both ran 30% on Windows 7 media player (Up to 50% on Planet Earth). When i tried MPCHC, Kanon dropped to 5%, Planet Earth stayed at 30%. If this is an indicator of what'll happen on the U230 (3200HD vs my 5850HD), then i'm gonna be back on the fence between the u230 and 1201n.

Does BakaBt have some sort of policy on how the videos are encoded? If not, i hope they put one in place that makes sure the videos are GPU compatible

[fohfoh]

Aren't most GPU video decoding based on either games or media in your either blu ray slot or DVD rom slot? I have no idea... just asking. AFAIK, there isn't a huge difference based on video cards for video playback. At least, I haven't really seen or tested some of the new stuff lately.

[namaiki]

@lapa321: try this setting file for DXVA in MPC-HC.

http://www.mediafire.com/file/2jnmzqzwodu/mpc-hc.ini

put it in the same folder as your MPC-HC.exe
It's exactly what I wrote below.


Also, remember that if you are calculating CPU % usage, put your PC on the High Performance power profile so that the CPU doesn't downclock and try to save power, which would increase the CPU % usage reading.

Does BakaBt have some sort of policy on how the videos are encoded? If not, i hope they put one in place that makes sure the videos are GPU compatible

Probably never, as it can reduce video quality.

Also, I hope you didn't disable V-sync like that tutorial asked you to, and a few other things.

All you needed to do (on Windows Vista or 7) was:
1: Select an EVR video renderer (EVR-CP if you need subtitles)
2: Select a DXVA video filter (either mpc-hc's internal one or the MS DTV-DVD video decoder)
3: Tick auto-load subtitles.

@fohfoh: For displaying video, no there is not any difference. However, some video cards allow you to decode video on the video card itself instead of on the CPU. This can make a difference when the CPU itself isn't fast enough to decode the video.

[lapa321]

I just tried Summer Wars, it's running at 20-30% CPU! I tried switching between Summer Wars and the Kanon sample video. Summer Wars isn't getting accelerated!!! :'(

@namaiki
Thanks, checking.

[namaiki]

lol try my settings file. Please tell me if it works (generally only with Windows 7, though).

[lapa321]

AWESOME! At first it didn't work and the video wouldn't move past the first frame, so i tried downloading new drivers and the now they all stay under 10%!

Thanks! I'm gonna do this when i get the U230!

[namaiki]

Search up a bit about the Radeon HD 3200 just in case. I have no idea whether it will have the same video decoding capabilities/compatibility as your Radeon 5850. They are generations apart.

The Radeon 5850 is UVD2 and the 3200 is UVD. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unified_Video_Decoder *cough* wikipedia *cough*

Lots of bits and pieces about the hardware in the comments here: http://imouto.my/watching-h264-videos-using-dxva/

[sapsa]

For displaying video, no there is not any difference.

You 100% sure, i know that using CoreAVC give lower quality output.
If DXVA dont lower quality i will try that on my 8800gt

[namaiki]

You 100% sure, i know that using CoreAVC give lower quality output.
If DXVA dont lower quality i will try that on my 8800gt

Depends what component is doing conversion to RGB. CoreAVC's YV12 output seems to be pixel identical.

[Mcgreag]

For displaying video, no there is not any difference.

You 100% sure, i know that using CoreAVC give lower quality output.
If DXVA dont lower quality i will try that on my 8800gt

Not true. The h264 spec requires the output of all decoders to be identical. Even the deblocking (this is where the quality in different mpeg-4 asp decoders lay in the past) are exactly the same now. There where some bugs in coreavc back in 2007 that could in some cases produce worse output but those are long gone.

[namaiki]

CoreAVC has options to change levels output for non-RGB output in it's settings. Just avoid using those. (set both to TV or PC)

[NaRu]

I believe you have Nvidia Ion in your net book then it will play 1080p videos. My friend uses his net book for his TV and plays his movies on it. It it runs fine

[namaiki]

ION is good, but it won't accelerate H.264 videos with widths of 769-784, 849-864, 929-944, 1009-1024, 1793-1808, 1873-1888, 1953-1968, 2033-2048 pixels - most videos will be fine.

Still not sure about compatibility with the Radeon HD 3200.

[sapsa]

CoreAVC ain't free, DXVA is.
Is there a big diffrence if any between those two ?

OT: mayby this will help http://thegreenbutton.com/forums/p/79162/393825.aspx

[namaiki]

CoreAVC only accelerates video on nVidia GPUs. CoreAVC's Cuda thing will allow other filters to post-process the video.

DXVA has restrictions on which video renderer you have to use, DXVA doesn't really allow post-processing.