Discussion Forums > Technology
Proprietary video codec H264 and open-source WebM
K7IA:
--- Quote from: Lupin on May 28, 2010, 04:19:47 AM ---
--- Quote from: K7IA on May 27, 2010, 09:06:54 PM ---Proprietary video codec H264 and open-source WebM
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Err... How do you compare a codec to a container?
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Fortunately I didn't. This thread is about "Proprietary video codec H264 and open-source WebM" , but I understand that it's a common mistake. There isn't much of a comparison anyway, except the following line.
--- Quote from: K7IA on May 27, 2010, 09:06:54 PM ---If you dig into these articles you will notice that the bottom line is WebM's video codec (VP8) lacks encoding features when compared to H264 (what I interpret as "bigger file size compared to H264").
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--- Quote from: halfelite on May 27, 2010, 09:51:51 PM ---They cannot stop you from watching what you already have.
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Now we are not talking about your 2 year-old newspapers, books, magazines you previously bought here. The video needs to be decoded in real-time every time you watch it on your player, with the technology that is patented by these companies. There is no other way to evade this unless you convert it something else. It is not enough that you store the file on your hard drive.
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Also consider this. Why would Google go to great lengths to come up with something alternative to H264, which we all acknowledge that performs very good, and buy "On2" - the company that developed VP8 video codec - and make it publicly available license free.
You might think that the sole reason why microsoft and apple are against Theora (yet another previous generation proprietary free video codec from On2 - formerly known as VP3) in HTML5 is because it doesn't shrink the video enough compared to H264. Well if this is the case then they should gladly support VP8 as well since it is comparable to VP-1 and H.264 Baseline.
--- Quote ---Overall verdict on the VP8 video format ... I expect VP8 to be more comparable to VC-1 or H.264 Baseline Profile than with H.264. Of course, this is still significantly better than Theora, and in my tests it beats Dirac quite handily as well.
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Source: http://x264dev.multimedia.cx/?p=377
Unfortunately, the big picture says it is about CONTROL, Apple & Microsoft's grip on a video format that even the pirates are not reluctant to use. Being free-of-charge today doesn't mean it is free.
vuzedome:
So, who wants to join the vuzeD video codec project?
WebM can kiss itself goodbye when this is done.
Now, onto more serious stuff,
WebM, not going to happen.
Lupin:
--- Quote from: K7IA on May 28, 2010, 05:02:16 AM ---Fortunately I didn't. This thread is about "Proprietary video codec H264 and open-source WebM" , but I understand that it's a common mistake. There isn't much of a comparison anyway, except the following line.
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The topic is misleading. It hints at a comparison between the two (which obviously cannot be made)
The links you've provided mostly speaks about VP8 and H264.
Daiz:
--- Quote from: K7IA on May 27, 2010, 09:06:54 PM ---the very content we download and archive is encoded with Apple & Microsoft technology and they apparently can stop us from viewing them anytime they want. They don't have to stop P2P sharing of files.
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This is completely untrue. Nobody can stop you from viewing H.264 files, nor can anyone stop you from encoding them.
Fansubs are already breaking the law so we might as well use the best video format available. That's all there is to it.
K7IA:
Here is a little more on the issue.
Mozilla and Opera call for Google open codec in HTML5 spec
You might get the impression while reading that article that the WebM's VP8 is solely for watching and encoding video available as online (streaming) content and this is just about browsers' ability to play video on a HTML5 compliant page. Well you can't expect them to talk about piracy :)
--- Quote from: Daiz on May 29, 2010, 10:41:03 AM ---Nobody can stop you from viewing H.264 files, nor can anyone stop you from encoding them.
Fansubs are already breaking the law so we might as well use the best video format available.
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I had heard about Microsoft's "Palladium" during an IRC chat in 2002 and it's ATMEL companion chip which was about to wreck havoc on pirates. Apparently it turned into this
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Next-Generation_Secure_Computing_Base
Believe me, a software company that produces an operating system - along with its kernel - can do anything if it wants to. Not only they can prevent you from watching your favorite pirated video, they can even prevent you from putting that file on your hard disk or any media you can use with your computer.
Don't confuse this with EC's pressure on Microsoft to allow users to choose their default internet browser. No court will help you if you claim that you can't watch your pirated movie.
This is not about today anyway.
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