Author Topic: So who's made the leap to SSD?  (Read 4652 times)

Offline nstgc

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2010, 09:05:20 PM »
I was cleaning up and realized something. They said there was an aproximately 2GB throughput, with 24 drives in a RAID 0 configuration. Thats about 85MB per second per drive! My 5400 RPM HDD gets 100MB/s.

Thats a terrible example. Either those are shitty drives, a shitty RAID, or they are bottle necking. I suspect that last option. In either case, its a bad example.

Offline dogsinafen

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #21 on: May 28, 2010, 10:18:03 PM »
Get a nice fast HDD for the OS and use slower drives for data...
I'll switch to SSD for my OS once the price drops A LOT. As of now HDD to plenty for shit cheap.

Offline mgz

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #22 on: May 28, 2010, 11:13:26 PM »
have you considered scsi drives, 15k rpm still much cheaper then SSD not sure if mac can has use them though as its not typical HDD interface for home users

Offline iindigo

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #23 on: May 29, 2010, 12:19:30 AM »
I really want to get away from mechanical drives. Yeah they're cheap, but they're noisy, they're hot, they're not all that fast anymore, and they all have the possibility of just hunkering up and dying at any given moment.

Offline Natheria

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #24 on: May 29, 2010, 12:43:44 AM »
Well even if you buy an SSD right now you're still going to have a bunch of HDDs for the rest of your data. Until memory volume increases and prices drop drastically HDDs are going to be around for a long time to come (i give it 5 years).

Offline nstgc

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #25 on: May 29, 2010, 01:12:49 AM »
I really want to get away from mechanical drives. Yeah they're cheap, but they're noisy, they're hot, they're not all that fast anymore, and they all have the possibility of just hunkering up and dying at any given moment.

It depends on the drive. With the exception of my 500GB Seagate, all my other drives that I've used for any appreciable amount of time (the WD drives I buy tend to die within days...bad lot probably), have been fairly quiet. My 5 160GB SG drives are inaudible unless under full load and my Samsungs (1 of each: 1TB and 2TB) are silent under full load. I also purchased fans that don't make a lot of noise. In particular my front fan is rated at 8dB, my CPU fan is silent unless under heavy load, and I can't hear the fan in the back due to its location. The only fan I can hear is the GPU fan and thats when I'm playing any game. The point is, my fans aren't that loud, and neither are my drives if you exclude that POS SG.

Offline fohfoh

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #26 on: May 29, 2010, 09:57:07 AM »
Aren't there a few seagates that run at like 5800 rpm instead of 5400?
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Offline mgz

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #27 on: May 29, 2010, 08:44:38 PM »
I really want to get away from mechanical drives. Yeah they're cheap, but they're noisy, they're hot, they're not all that fast anymore, and they all have the possibility of just hunkering up and dying at any given moment.
scsi drives are drives made for use in server they are pretty much the six million dollar man of HDDs running at 15k rpm and designed to be used 24/7

Offline kyanwan

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #28 on: May 31, 2010, 01:28:12 AM »
I really want to get away from mechanical drives. Yeah they're cheap, but they're noisy, they're hot, they're not all that fast anymore, and they all have the possibility of just hunkering up and dying at any given moment.

Technically SSD is "moving" at a microscopic level.   The memory is a big array of switches.  ;)

So a perfect SSD would have an insanely long MTBF - which is when the actual "moving" circuitry wears out.

-----

I've used SCSI in a desktop before-  the performance was noticeable.

The drives - like said - are faster RPM, better quality, bigger caches, they take CPU load off the system ( drives and cards have integrated CPUs ).   If you're using them standalone, they'll give you a bit of a boost.  If you're using them in a RAID array, they'll burn like crazy. 

Speaking of burn - they really do get hot too.   When I had a 3 drive 10k RPM cage - that thing was like a heater. 

----

I wouldn't bother with the 5k drives.  7200 or 10K.   Pretty bad when just a faster spin = more performance. 

----

Anyway - seriously - speaking of these drives ... I saw the first IDE flash chips come out way back when from M-systems.  I was sitting around talking with some friends about how kick ass it would be to play Quake 1 on those things.

Man - the more I talk about it - the more I want to grab some of the hardware I once dreamed of.  ^^
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Offline bloody000

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #29 on: June 07, 2010, 06:09:02 AM »
X-25M 34nm 80GB here. I will never want to boot from consumer-grade HDD again. it's that good.

And I probably would be married and had kids before it fails. the durability issue is completely overblown: even at a modest 10,000 cycles with 3.0x write amplification, you are looking at over 70GB per day non-stop for 10 years(80GB drive). of course this is assuming wear levelling work as intended.
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Offline sdedalus83

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2010, 06:22:37 AM »
When I can get a pair of 64GB drives in the 250/200 class for about $75 each, then I'll jump.

Offline fohfoh

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2010, 05:42:36 PM »
When I can get a pair of 64GB drives in the 250/200 class for about $75 each, then I'll jump.

Sounds like quite a while. Probably at least 1.5-2 years down the road. (Which is a long time for technology)

The X25 @ 40GB was flying around for about 120 recently AFAIK, 80 GB at like 240

Corsair or someone was offering 64GB for about 140/150 or so.

Either that... or some kind of boxing day deal.
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Offline mgz

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2010, 10:03:41 PM »
When I can get a pair of 64GB drives in the 250/200 class for about $75 each, then I'll jump.

Sounds like quite a while. Probably at least 1.5-2 years down the road. (Which is a long time for technology)

The X25 @ 40GB was flying around for about 120 recently AFAIK, 80 GB at like 240

Corsair or someone was offering 64GB for about 140/150 or so.

Either that... or some kind of boxing day deal.
since im kinda lazy would someone like to clarify the difference between the MLC (cheaper) SSD drives and the SLC(notably more expensive when coming from brands like intel )

see
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167025   MLC
vs
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167013   SLC


and if memory serves i read a couple years back that SLC  was far more preferable for OS use and MLC was better for general storage use(like thumb drive type situations) if someone would care to explain would be sweet because im pretty lazy and the information is good for those who are looking to purchase these drives.

Offline fohfoh

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2010, 01:25:55 AM »
MLC is like a duplex. Each cell has 2 inhabitants. If the duplex burns, 2 inhabitants die.

SLC is a detached home. Each home has 1 inhabitants, if the home burns, only 1 inhabitant dies.


I think...

But MLC has more storage per area. (Again duplex vs detached home). But not as reliable.
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Offline xShadow

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2010, 10:22:39 AM »
When I can get a pair of 64GB drives in the 250/200 class for about $75 each, then I'll jump.

Sounds like quite a while. Probably at least 1.5-2 years down the road. (Which is a long time for technology)

The X25 @ 40GB was flying around for about 120 recently AFAIK, 80 GB at like 240

Corsair or someone was offering 64GB for about 140/150 or so.

Either that... or some kind of boxing day deal.


The wait time is kind of irrelevant when you're not looking for insane performance from the hard drive anyway. As it is now, mechanical drives are just so much more money efficient that even with SSD's lower failure rate they're not worth it.

Let's put things into perspective:

Here is a good, solid, reliable 1TB hard drive, spinning at 7.2k RPM (which is a decent speed); I could have easily went with something much cheaper for the same capacity, but I believe that is unrealistic as a consumer choice:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822152185

Price: 80 dollars
Capacity: 1TB
So, we have 1024 gigabytes. Technically, that's going to be a bit less when formatted, but that's true with any drive, really, so I'm going to just scale it down to 1000 gigabytes as a small correction.

Divide 1000 gigabytes by 80 dollars, you have 12.5 gigabytes per dollar.... and this isn't some cheapass drive that isn't going to last you. This is a solid drive that will probably last you at least a year or two.

Then, let's look at SSD drives... specifically the one you mentioned:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820167025&cm_re=x25-_-20-167-025-_-Product

To be honest, this one looks like it's a slower version... but whatever, let's analyze it nonetheless.

Price: 118 dollars
Capacity: 40 gigs

Divide it up: 0.339 gigs/dollar

Final analysis:

Divide 12.5 gigs/dollar by 0.339 gigs/dollar:
36.87

In other words, conventional hard drives give you 36.87 times as much per dollar in comparison to the SSD.

What does this say? Well, for one, if you're investing in an SSD, your incentive should not be reliability. Reliability is rather irrelevant when you could buy 37 drives with the same capacity for the price you just bought that SSD for, and the chances of them all failing (you could back up your main drive 37 times) is probably more astronomically low than an SSD failing... well at least if you invest in a decent brand... you know, one that doesn't have 37 drives all failing within a year or something of the sort. So, even if one drive fails every year, you have 37 years worth of hard drives, because they will all last at least a year. I know this is purely theoretical, but nonetheless...

That makes an SSD's advantage in the reliability arena completely irrelevant. The only reason you could possibly want to buy one is speed. That's it. There's no other excuse. As for me, I'm quite satisfied with my computer's speed, and I would prefer to invest in a better graphics card or something of the sort while "dealing" with not-so-fast loading times and whatnot. Maybe some folks just have a thing for spending money on bleeding edge performance. I don't have that kind of money.

I'm sure you folks already knew this somewhere in your heads, but I just decided to crunch the numbers to really put it into perspective. Just wanted to get it out there in writing.

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Offline bloody000

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2010, 10:39:56 AM »
You will find the speed of HDDs unbearable AFTER you lived with SSDs for a while. Whenever I boot into the Arch installation(Xfce desktop) on my WD black 640gb I feel like crawling through mud, but before I bought the X-25M it felt much snappier than Windows!
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Offline iindigo

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2010, 03:01:30 PM »
I really wouldn't care (I mean I've lived fine with 7200RPM drives for years now), but I'm completely serious when I say I feel like the hard drive is the only thing holding this machine back. The only time it's ever slow, the HD is rattling its head off, seeking the relevant pieces of data, while the rest of the system is just sitting bored and idle waiting for the HD to catch up.

Now that's not to say I can afford to upgrade right now, but if I get ahold of some extra cash you'd better believe it's happening.


Offline mgz

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2010, 11:26:17 PM »
I really wouldn't care (I mean I've lived fine with 7200RPM drives for years now), but I'm completely serious when I say I feel like the hard drive is the only thing holding this machine back. The only time it's ever slow, the HD is rattling its head off, seeking the relevant pieces of data, while the rest of the system is just sitting bored and idle waiting for the HD to catch up.

Now that's not to say I can afford to upgrade right now, but if I get ahold of some extra cash you'd better believe it's happening.


if im not mistaken i believe scsi drives shit on current SSD drives in speed as well they are kinda obscenely fast from what i read at least the good ones is

Offline bloody000

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2010, 12:00:44 AM »
I really wouldn't care (I mean I've lived fine with 7200RPM drives for years now), but I'm completely serious when I say I feel like the hard drive is the only thing holding this machine back. The only time it's ever slow, the HD is rattling its head off, seeking the relevant pieces of data, while the rest of the system is just sitting bored and idle waiting for the HD to catch up.

Now that's not to say I can afford to upgrade right now, but if I get ahold of some extra cash you'd better believe it's happening.


if im not mistaken i believe scsi drives shit on current SSD drives in speed as well they are kinda obscenely fast from what i read at least the good ones is


Even the best 15k drive cannot match the seek time and throughput of a good SSD, the interface itself contains no magic. besides, there are plenty of ultra-expensive enterprise-grade SAS SSDs too.
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Offline Proin Drakenzol

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Re: So who's made the leap to SSD?
« Reply #39 on: June 09, 2010, 01:16:52 AM »
Price: 80 dollars
Capacity: 1TB
So, we have 1024 gigabytes. Technically, that's going to be a bit less when formatted, but that's true with any drive, really, so I'm going to just scale it down to 1000 gigabytes as a small correction.

Actually, it has nothing to do with "formatting" the drive. It's the way that a computer measures a gigabyte (the right way) and the way the manufacturers measure a gigabyte (the wrong way).

A computer measures 1 gigabyte as 1024 megabytes and 1 terabyte as 1024 gigabytes. The manufacturers measure 1 gigabytes as only 1000 megabytes and 1 terabyte as only 1000 gigabytes. Thus the difference.


The speed increase of two striped SSDs over a single (or even striped) HDDs cannot be overemphasized, however.

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