Author Topic: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?  (Read 11607 times)

Offline dankles

  • Member
  • Posts: 963
  • Don't remember what you can infer
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #60 on: September 15, 2010, 07:08:33 PM »
I was just thinking kinda the same thing.
The people who care about them are usually the same ones who will pick them up via the audio and don't actually need it in the subs.
it just feels odd, but it looks bad when you see crappy translations of honorifics.

That may be true... but again... people really need to learn to listen...

Offline hanayome

  • Member
  • Posts: 2602
  • “The world is a corpse and its seekers are dogs.”
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #61 on: September 16, 2010, 04:17:41 PM »
If that was true, what would you translate onii-sama to? Lord brother?
And would you call your friend Mister, yet Japanese use -san with friends who they aren't so close with.
It's all about context and intonation.

That's why most people, including me, prefer if they just don't translate them at all. Whatever the translation is, it just sounds weird.
Okay, guess i should have been a little more specific. -sama after names only. Rule out Onii, Okaa, Otoo, Goshujin, and anything apart from names. As for -san with close friends, i guess you do have a point there too.

I was just thinking kinda the same thing.
The people who care about them are usually the same ones who will pick them up via the audio and don't actually need it in the subs.

+1 Infinity. I have been doing it for years now. After all, many fansub groups leave them out. So i just ot used to it either way...and don't care much. Most recent experience being Durarara!! and Pandora Hearts
Parts of it I admired greatly, parts I laughed at till my sides were almost sore;
other parts I read with absolute sorrow,  because I think them utterly false and grievously mischievous...
Many of your wide conclusions are  based upon assumptions...
A. Sedgwick, Darwin's buddy...

Offline sdedalus83

  • Member
  • Posts: 2867
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #62 on: September 16, 2010, 06:02:47 PM »
I've reached the point where if it's not a talented group doing it, i just want them to leave the damned things in, no matter how stupid they look.  Most groups end up butchering the whole thing when they start dropping in literal translations.

Offline LadyMissie

  • Member
  • Posts: 2
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #63 on: September 29, 2010, 03:19:14 PM »
I'd prefer them to stay in. In the translation for Lupin the 3rd when Lupin calls Fujiko "Fujiko-chan" they translate it as "Fujiko dear." Now I know it could be taken that way in English but I'm kinda sick of seeing "dear" all the time. The very least they could have translated it to "Fujicakes" since that's what he says in the English dub. When he says it to Jigen it doesn't get translated as such. Ah well.

Offline Micharus

  • Member
  • Posts: 1379
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #64 on: September 29, 2010, 03:31:43 PM »
I like them in, I've gotten to the point where I sort of understand why they are used.

They tend to point out the relationship, both status wise and how close they are to another person for me, that is, if it isn't already obvious.

Meh, it's easier for me to explain it to myself, rather than here.  ::)

edit: Also, this -> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_honorifics

Seems my brain has worked things out fairly close, which is odd for me.  ;D
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 03:16:29 AM by Micharus »
Micharus
My reviews of Anime I have watched recently
Micharus's Animelist
BBT Ika Musume Fanclub Member #000002

Offline pingryanime

  • Adult Arbiter
  • Member
  • Posts: 5186
  • Japanese Dude Obsessed With Touhou and Misaka
    • Yukkuricraft
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #65 on: September 30, 2010, 03:38:38 AM »
lol I don't look at subs, but when they're hard subbed I obviously see them, and when they're like, "Mr." instead of "san" or something like that, it sorta pisses me off for no particular reason xD

Offline tomoya-kun

  • Member
  • Posts: 6374
  • Reporting for duty.
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #66 on: September 30, 2010, 03:42:41 AM »
lol I don't look at subs, but when they're hard subbed I obviously see them, and when they're like, "Mr." instead of "san" or something like that, it sorta pisses me off for no particular reason xD

Only terrible groups use Mr., it looks annoying and 80% of the time makes no sense.  What i really hate is manga without honorifics, but that might just be me.


BBT Team Riko Suminoe #000002

Offline Havoc10K

  • Member
  • Posts: 23081
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #67 on: September 30, 2010, 10:08:30 AM »
Imagine a loli anime with honorifics, where one of them is a senpai to others, at age 8... imagine a horrible terror seeing "miss" instead of Senpai, think I would sue the group for spreading stupidity.

as it was said many times over, either drop honorifics or leave them in original form, adaptations are plain stupid.

Offline 1000mAh

  • Member
  • Posts: 10393
  • In the army now
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #68 on: September 30, 2010, 01:32:19 PM »
I prefer Japanese honorifics, the make  the subs  easier to read. I feel annoyed when reading  something like 'Mr, miss, etc.' theyjust make me feel sick...

Offline Sosseres

  • Member
  • Posts: 6701
  • A problem well stated is a problem half solved.
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #69 on: September 30, 2010, 03:45:47 PM »
I honestly don't care as long as the TL is correct. If you choose to translate all the chan, san, kun, nii, sama and so on then get it right or don't do it. If you choose to not translate it, congratulations, you have one less area where you could have made a mistake and annoyed me.

When I started watching I wanted them in since they add meaning and I couldn't hear them in the audio. It helps a lot to have terms in the subs for learning the language while watching, at least it feels that way to me.

Edit,

This post sounds kind of selfish and grumpy. Sorry for that, but it is my opinion on the matter, I will never insult anybody that does make a mistake (since I know how hard it can be), it will just annoy me.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2010, 03:49:13 PM by Sosseres »

Offline madara90

  • Member
  • Posts: 107
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #70 on: September 30, 2010, 11:15:11 PM »
Anime is much better when honorifics is used, but i hate it when the fansub groups change from using it to not using it half way through the series.

Anime-Planet.com - anime | manga | [url=http://www.anime-planet.com/r

Offline tomoya-kun

  • Member
  • Posts: 6374
  • Reporting for duty.
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #71 on: October 01, 2010, 02:05:47 AM »
Just wondering, when English movies get subbed in Japanese do they translate mr, mrs, ms etc?


BBT Team Riko Suminoe #000002

Offline pingryanime

  • Adult Arbiter
  • Member
  • Posts: 5186
  • Japanese Dude Obsessed With Touhou and Misaka
    • Yukkuricraft
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #72 on: October 01, 2010, 02:48:26 AM »
....good question, i never watch dubs so I wouldn't know... but I would think they don't...

Think about it, it doesn't sound natural no matter how you look at it.

Mr. Tomoya


Ms. Kagami


first of all, you're using the first name, second, you're using Mr. Ms. way too often to make it sound natural...

Offline tomoya-kun

  • Member
  • Posts: 6374
  • Reporting for duty.
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #73 on: October 01, 2010, 03:22:09 AM »
....good question, i never watch dubs so I wouldn't know... but I would think they don't...

Think about it, it doesn't sound natural no matter how you look at it.

Mr. Tomoya


Ms. Kagami


first of all, you're using the first name, second, you're using Mr. Ms. way too often to make it sound natural...

I do say Mr. Kotecha or Ms. Fitzpatrick at school though


BBT Team Riko Suminoe #000002

Offline Havoc10K

  • Member
  • Posts: 23081
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #74 on: October 01, 2010, 10:59:12 AM »
at school I never used mr or miss or ms.

i used professor XXXXXXX and vice/principal, at first teachers were annoyed, but they got over it quickly, it was my way to both annoy them and show more respect to their work, it's probably the reason why I get annoyed seeing a translator using miss or mr instead of sensei/doctor, and I do find it very frustrating when translators miss out at doctors and use mr. instead, sensei means teacher or doctor or master-teacher in martial arts school as well, when I see that translators didn't think about this it really frustrates me and i automatically change the subbing group, and if there is none I edit the script.

Offline Zalis116

  • Box Fansubs
  • Member
  • Posts: 4296
    • ReDone-Subs Founder & Sole Member
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #75 on: October 07, 2010, 09:21:01 PM »
when I see that translators didn't think about this it really frustrates me and i automatically change the subbing group, and if there is none I edit the script.
Isn't editing scripts of an ongoing show you're watching more work than it's worth? I don't really care to spoil myself on something I haven't seen by editing the script ahead of time, and if I've already seen it, what's the point?


Anyway, as if this flame war needed any more fuel, this little news announcement came out today:

http://www.mania.com/mx-media-to-eliminate-honorifics-subtitles_article_125601.html
MX Media = company that employs some ex-fansubbers, and does translations for most of CrunchyRoll's subs. So in a nutshell, this means CR subs will no longer have honorifics, though they may go to a 2-stream model with options for localized and non-localized.

More commentary:
http://www.colonydrop.com/index.php/2010/10/06/operation-british-phase-seven?blog=1

It's kind of a silly business decision, if we assume/accept that
1) CR pursues the kind of hardcore fans that would otherwise watch fansubs (as they did on CR before they went legit)
2) Most fansub viewers either like honorifics (and hate subs without them), or at least don't dislike them enough to want them gone from subtitles entirely.


Got any old fansubs on HDD/DVD/CD? Please take a look at this thread.

Offline donald1

  • Member
  • Posts: 1211
  • ☢CAUTION☢
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #76 on: October 07, 2010, 09:33:14 PM »
should someone actually tell CrunchyRoll that they are wasting thier time cuz nobody who really likes anime watches thier subs?

CR needs to stop..... or at least not suck at subbing.

why do they even sub anime in the first place?

Offline Havoc10K

  • Member
  • Posts: 23081
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #77 on: October 07, 2010, 10:00:54 PM »
when I see that translators didn't think about this it really frustrates me and i automatically change the subbing group, and if there is none I edit the script.
Isn't editing scripts of an ongoing show you're watching more work than it's worth? I don't really care to spoil myself on something I haven't seen by editing the script ahead of time, and if I've already seen it, what's the point?


Anyway, as if this flame war needed any more fuel, this little news announcement came out today:

http://www.mania.com/mx-media-to-eliminate-honorifics-subtitles_article_125601.html
MX Media = company that employs some ex-fansubbers, and does translations for most of CrunchyRoll's subs. So in a nutshell, this means CR subs will no longer have honorifics, though they may go to a 2-stream model with options for localized and non-localized.

More commentary:
http://www.colonydrop.com/index.php/2010/10/06/operation-british-phase-seven?blog=1

It's kind of a silly business decision, if we assume/accept that
1) CR pursues the kind of hardcore fans that would otherwise watch fansubs (as they did on CR before they went legit)
2) Most fansub viewers either like honorifics (and hate subs without them), or at least don't dislike them enough to want them gone from subtitles entirely.

it's best to watch the episode before fixing the subs, you know, to know where the mistakes are and to use what you prefer to be used, i usually get annoyed by the slight mistake that most groups make, "hai" not always means "yes", sometimes it means "right" "sure" and "ok"
it's a little annoyance but when you see for example 3-4 episodes and you see this little mistake over and over again, it really starts to frustrate you =_=!

it isn't much of work to edit the scripts, after i watched the episode and I know where to look for them mistakes it's fairly easy, then I just watch again in it's full glory of how it should be, just translating is not enough, you have to put many factors into it, for instance, the situation, the age and personality of characters speaking, who are they talking to, in what context, many groups forget that and just go with the flow.

on your news about what CR want to do, here is my comment about it:
(click to show/hide)

Offline tomoya-kun

  • Member
  • Posts: 6374
  • Reporting for duty.
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #78 on: October 07, 2010, 10:49:28 PM »
at school I never used mr or miss or ms.

i used professor XXXXXXX and vice/principal, at first teachers were annoyed, but they got over it quickly, it was my way to both annoy them and show more respect to their work, it's probably the reason why I get annoyed seeing a translator using miss or mr instead of sensei/doctor, and I do find it very frustrating when translators miss out at doctors and use mr. instead, sensei means teacher or doctor or master-teacher in martial arts school as well, when I see that translators didn't think about this it really frustrates me and i automatically change the subbing group, and if there is none I edit the script.

You don't normally call your doctor sensei.


BBT Team Riko Suminoe #000002

Offline Havoc10K

  • Member
  • Posts: 23081
Re: Do you prefer Japanese honorifics in subs?
« Reply #79 on: October 07, 2010, 10:53:39 PM »
you do in Japan, don't you ?