Things that piss you off!

[natures4fun]

I get mad about the animals being hurt on the world by people =S

[kitamesume]

I get mad about the animals being hurt on the world by people =S

visit your nearby slaughter house and see how your steak are made. its a good insight, might convince you to switch to vegan.

[Burkingam]

I really wouldn't mind being vegan if everyone in this darn city weren't doing everything it their power to make it harder than necessary. I don't eat much egg and dairies nowadays anyway.

[kitamesume]

being vegan isn't bad, but forcing yourself to be vegan just because of beliefs isn't good either.

[Xycolian2332]

I can't really see someone being a vegan for anything other than beliefs.

The belief that it's healthier, the belief that you're making a difference and reducing the suffering of animals.

Etc etc

[Tiffanys]

The belief that it's healthier, the belief that you're making a difference and reducing the suffering of animals.

Only one of those is a belief. It's actually been proven time and time again that it's actually healthier. Prescribing to scientific studies for a healthier lifestyle isn't what you'd call a belief, and that's actually perfectly acceptable.

Personally I think it's kinda deplorable (not to mention stupid) just to do it for the animals. Emotional decision making at its finest right there.

[Xycolian2332]

The belief that it's healthier, the belief that you're making a difference and reducing the suffering of animals.

Only one of those is a belief. It's actually been proven time and time again that it's actually healthier.

Sure it may be healthier on its own, as opposed to a diet that consists only of meat, but the healthiest choice of all is a balance between the two.

There are some things you get from meat that can't be obtained via vegetation and vice versa.

[Burkingam]

Personally I think it's kinda deplorable (not to mention stupid) just to do it for the animals. Emotional decision making at its finest right there.

Doing it for yourself is an emotional decision too. There is no more intrinsic reason why you'd do it for yourself than there is to do it for others, including non-human animals. Not to mention that the benefits of a plant-based diet are mostly long-term. In 40 years, your personality, your physical shape as well as almost every single atoms in your body will be very different as they are now. How "you" is the future you, really?

The belief that it's healthier, the belief that you're making a difference and reducing the suffering of animals.

Only one of those is a belief. It's actually been proven time and time again that it's actually healthier.

Sure it may be healthier on its own, as opposed to a diet that consists only of meat, but the healthiest choice of all is a balance between the two.

There are some things you get from meat that can't be obtained via vegetation and vice versa.

A vegan diet only means a diet that doesn't contain any animal product and no there is no nutrient you could get from animals that you can't get without them. If you disagree, give me one and I'll tell you how you can get it.

[metisou]

I used to be the kid that wanted to help little animals because I felt sorry for them. Picking up a baby bird that fell out of it's nest is not the best thing to do. Often times, that baby bird that you just picked up.. won't be taken back by the mother. Not only that, but if you're trying to put that baby bird back in the nest and mommy is on her way home expect to get your skull rammed into a couple times. As you grow up.. things start to become more clear to you. I was a dumb ass.

Regardless of the reason vegans choose not to gnaw into some tasty, juicy meat they're only harming their own bodies. We're omnivores, it's in our nature. Though I would laugh my ass off if a tiger suddenly decided they were going to eat veggies explicitly. People have become too complacent in their comfortable lives where they get the choice of what they can consume. Their survivalist instincts aren't completely shut off though. It's just a temporary perk to having the freedom of choosing a life style. If it came down to the wire and there was a rodent wanting to chew on your insides and you were without food... would you sacrifice yourself for that rodent? Most vegans would not.

The only thing that really pisses me off is that they choose to ignore their nature for the greater good of other species.. not their own and some people are just stupid enough to let themselves be eaten. That just shows they are weak willed and do not have the means keep on living. It's about time humanity trimmed some extra fat.

[Burkingam]

The deeper human nature you are trying to appeal to doesn't exist, metisou. Being omnivore only means eating both plant based and animal based products, so no, vegans are not, by definition, vegans. Evolution won't help you there either. There is no ought in evolution. But if you insist that the fact that cavemen have eaten meat for millions of years and that means we ought to eat meat, I'd point out that cavemen haven't used the Internet for thousands of years, does that mean that you are hurting yourself just by being here?

Furthermore, there is a huge difference between not wanting to hurt animals and putting oneself in danger to save animals. Not eating animal products when you could perfectly eat something else falls in the former category, not eating an animal when it's either that or starvation falls in the second.

[metisou]

The deeper human nature you are trying to appeal to doesn't exist, metisou.

It already exists, just not in your neck of the woods or mine.
Edit: Would you explain this a bit more? I thought this was about the survivalist human nature which still exists. Unless you meant something entirely different.

Being omnivore only means eating both plant based and animal based products, so no, vegans are not, by definition, vegans. Evolution won't help you there either. There is no ought in evolution. But if you insist that the fact that cavemen have eaten meat for millions of years and that means we ought to eat meat, I'd point out that cavemen haven't used the Internet for thousands of years, does that mean that you are hurting yourself just by being here?

Human nature as a whole are omnivores. Not sure how evolution and the invention of the internet ties in to cavemen eating meat and plant-based life.

Furthermore, there is a huge difference between not wanting to hurt animals and putting oneself in danger to save animals. Not eating animal products when you could perfectly eat something else falls in the former category, not eating an animal when it's either that or starvation falls in the second.

I'm not talking about the difference between privileged eaters and those that eat to survive. I've only just mentioned them because it coincides with what pisses me off. Those that don't fight to live and are so set in their ways that they would rather be eaten than to harm another animal to survive. Yes, there are people like this and they fall under the vegan category. That is not to say that all vegans are like this.

[Burkingam]

You do realize that being vegan in general does not hurt human survival, right? Quite the opposite, as Tiffanys has already mentioned, health benefits in doing so have been demonstrated times and times again. The best established one is a reduction of about 25% in ischemic heart diseases which is the number one cause of death in developed countries.

Also, if you aren't talking about evolution by stating that human nature is omnivores, I don't know what you are talking about. Please explain what you mean. If you are talking about some kind of survivalist nature, I don't know what it has to do with veganism.

[lololitas]

A vegan diet only means a diet that doesn't contain any animal product and no there is no nutrient you could get from animals that you can't get without them. If you disagree, give me one and I'll tell you how you can get it.

Well, there are quite a few nutrients that a vegan will not get on an organic diet, or that he won't be getting enough of. First of all vitamin B12, this can nowadays be found in vegan cheese, but that won't be organic due to supplementation.

Vitamin D is also almost non existant in organic vegan food, but nowadays you can find it in fortified stuffs. There are two vitamins used for fortification: D2(from yeast) and D3(from animals), however our bodies only have about 60% the efficiency of vitamin D3 when consuming D2, so you'll need to increase your intake.

There are also carnosine (an antioxidant), which can be mostly replaced, but not completely, by eating other antioxidants, and DHA can only be obtained by eating fish. Our bodies, as advanced as they are can still convert some other omega 3 fatty acids to DHA although it's not as efficient, and the efficiency varies from person to person

There are major healthbenefits gained if compared to those that don't balance their food intake correctly, however the healthiest people in general eat both in a balanced manner.

I'm not really against anyone keeping himself from the tasty stuff (yay more for me), but they need to be careful about balancing their nutrition correctly. Also if done over a longer period of time, the body sometimes looses some of the digestive functions (only temporarily) so they will have some stomachaches and stuff when they try to eat meat again.

[metisou]

You do realize that being vegan in general does not hurt human survival, right? Quite the opposite, as Tiffanys has already mentioned, health benefits in doing so have been demonstrated times and times again. The best established one is a reduction of about 25% in ischemic heart diseases which is the number one cause of death in developed countries.

Yep, I know. You can still survive without eating meat. Meat is quicker in obtaining muscle mass though. I could probably find some articles in which eating vegetables can also be bad for you, but that's not the point of my entire post; nor was it your point to say that meat is bad for you, I'm sure. If that was your point, then excuse me.

Also, if you aren't talking about evolution by stating that human nature is omnivores, I don't know what you are talking about. Please explain what you mean. If you are talking about some kind of survivalist nature, I don't know what it has to do with veganism.

I wasn't trying to argue about the semantics of human nature and it's relation to evolution. I merely only wanted to make my statement as to what pissed me off. That being said, you can refer to my previous posts, so not to reiterate. Just read the first paragraph of my first post, the last paragraph of the second post, and that should give you all the information you need to draw a conclusion as to what I'm talking about. Sometimes I type in a non-uniform manner so sorry if it was confusing.

[surdumil]

Proselytizing vegetarians piss me off.

[Burkingam]

@lololitas Yeah if someone wants to have a perfectly natural diet, depending of what they mean by natural, this constraint might make it harder to have a healthy vegan diet, but why would you want to eat something natural over something healthy? Personally it's the whole "processing is evil" folks that piss me off.

Meat is quicker in obtaining muscle mass though.

That's not completely true. What the body needs is the amino acids contained in proteins and there is no essential amino acids that can't be found in plants. Unfortunately, many plant proteins tend to have an unbalanced amino acid profile it's not always the case. Soy proteins in particular actually has a biological value that's higher than beef, chicken and fish, while also taking the less land per unit of proteins to produce as any other major crops.

[metisou]

@lololitas Yeah if someone wants to have a perfectly natural diet, depending of what they mean by natural, this constraint might make it harder to have a healthy vegan diet, but why would you want to eat something natural over something healthy? Personally it's the whole "processing is evil" folks that piss me off.

Meat is quicker in obtaining muscle mass though.

That's not completely true. What the body needs is the amino acids contained in proteins and there is no essential amino acids that can't be found in plants. Unfortunately, many plant proteins tend to have an unbalanced amino acid profile it's not always the case. Soy proteins in particular actually has a biological value that's higher than beef, chicken and fish, while also taking the less land per unit of proteins to produce as any other major crops.

Okay, maybe I was a bit too narrow in saying meat was quicker. It's relatively easier to gain muscle mass by eating a variety of foods though and not just one type over the other. There are much more benefits in eating a properly balanced meal in relation to gaining muscle mass, that's for sure.

[Burkingam]

Okay, maybe I was a bit too narrow in saying meat was quicker. It's relatively easier to gain muscle mass by eating a variety of foods though and not just one type over the other. There are much more benefits in eating a properly balanced meal in relation to gaining muscle mass, that's for sure.

I agree that you need to have a balanced diet but a balanced diet doesn't necessarily requires anything coming from animals. Personally, I'm a big fan of mock meat since they are generally fortified with anything good that you could find in meat while also having a generally lower fat content and more proteins.

Bodybuilders generally don't merely rely on balancing their meals to gain mass. They generally take protein shake to get extra proteins in their diet. Most protein shakes are based on whey which is a by-product of cheese production and hence is not vegan, but soy-based protein shakes do exist and works just as well.

[metisou]

Okay, maybe I was a bit too narrow in saying meat was quicker. It's relatively easier to gain muscle mass by eating a variety of foods though and not just one type over the other. There are much more benefits in eating a properly balanced meal in relation to gaining muscle mass, that's for sure.

I agree that you need to have a balanced diet but a balanced diet doesn't necessarily requires anything coming from animals. Personally, I'm a big fan of mock meat since they are generally fortified with anything good that you could find in meat while also having a generally lower fat content and more proteins.

Bodybuilders generally don't merely rely on balancing their meals to gain mass. They generally take protein shake to get extra proteins in their diet. Most protein shakes are based on whey which is a by-product of cheese production and hence is not vegan, but soy-based protein shakes do exist and works just as well.

I'm not trying to say you should stop being vegan. By all means, if it's working for you and you feel healthy then stick with it. All the more power to you. Vegans don't piss me off, just the select few that would rather have their life ended than to kill and consume animal products for their own survival do. I tried soy patties and the taste is rather similar to the real thing. I could live off of it, but I wouldn't want to.

[Tanis]

My download speed is suppose to be at about 1MB/s, with an upload of around 200kb/s.

ISP says I'm in a 'high traffic area' so I'm lucky if I get over 400kb/s, with an upload of around 70kb/s.

How am I in a 'high traffic area', when nearly everyone around me is old as dirt?