Author Topic: Werewolves, Serial Killers and Demons (Murdergame: Modified rules) Round Four  (Read 38848 times)

Offline ilkaid

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But yes I do believe Meomix's accusation, I mean telling people a piece of information that will get you killed in order to take someone down, I don't see it being fake.

Here's the problem with using logic to explain Meomix's behavior: her decision to out herself makes no strategical sense.

Had she stayed quiet, werewolves would have probably won. Think about it, even with Chiyachan disqualified from the game they still had two werewolves and it was Day 3. Had she stayed quiet, there would be 3-4 werewolves by now out of ten players. Even if I am the vampire, it makes no sense to out yourself for it especially when I was already on the hot seat. I think it's safe to believe she just was angry at seeing her primary ally, Chiyachan, disqualified and blamed it on me.

Everyone should vote borror0 give him just 2 more days and he will control the majority of votes and will win the game.

You're assuming that:
1. I'm the vampire you.
2. No vampire newborns have been killed to far.
3. The vampire's targets for the past two nights were not the demon, werewolves, or dead before he/she arrived.
4. The vampire's targets won't be the demon, werewolves, or dead before he/she arrives.

For all we know, you could be the vampire and have not a single newborn at your orders. Werewolves are, by far, a much greater treat than vampires are by now. In fact, leaving werewolves alive increase the chance of a vampire victory...

You cannot make me doubt Meomix, I am certain that you are the vampire.
1) You say werewolves are the bigger threat, where does this logic come from?
Night 1) Chiyachan started out as the werewolf, was taken into custody by Meomix the sheriff, Chiya attacks and turns Meomix, later you (the vampire) show up and attempt to convert Meomix it fails because she is a werewolf now.
Night 2) Chiyachan is lynched due to rules violation, You come to my house attempt to convert me, but are stopped by the paladin, you turn the paladin. Get newborn vampire number 1.
Night 3) Meomix is lynched, Meomix intended to turn/kill me. While this is going on you have a 6 in 7 chance of turning another follower
I got the 6 in 7 odds from:
You didn't target me
You didn't target the demon (the demon was sucessful if you had targeted them there action would have been inturrupted and they wouldn't have killed)
You wouldn't have targeted the paladin they are a newborn now afterall
You wouldn't have targeted Meomix because you can't convert a werewolf
There were 12 people alive last night removing 4 for the reasons I've listed above and you obviously can't target yourself that leaves you with 7 people, only one of those (Shabutie) could have been dead before you got there, with odds of 6 in 7 it isn't unreasonable to assume you were sucessful in turning someone (if people don't believe me when I say I wasn't targeted the chances become 7 in 8 even more likely that you were successful).
So which is the bigger threat? A vampire with 2 newborns or 0 werewolves?

2)No newborns have been killed.
I'm assuming that like a werewolf if a vampire newborn is killed their vampiric nature will be reported in the news.

3) 2 days and the you have the majority.
There are 10 people left alive, in that group there are: A vampire (borror0), 2 newborns (one of which is a paladin), The demon, Vigilante, Doctor and 4 innocents (possibly 5 innocents if the other newborn is vigilante or doctor)
Someone is going to be lynched tonight 7 in 9 chance (assuming people don't do the smart thing and vote for borror0) that the newborns are unharmed, 8 in 9 chance of not lynching the demon, borror0 has a 6 in 8 chance in sucessfully converting (assuming demon is sucessful in his possesion/murder attempts), this means by tommorow if we don't lynch borror0 today by tommorow there will be a reasonable chance (7/9*8/9*6/8*1/2=7/27=25.9%) of borror0 controlling 4/8 votes and another 25.9% chance of borror0 controlling 4/9 votes (in the second case its the odds of borror0 getting a 3rd newborn but the demon failing to kill)
either way borror0 has a 51.8% chance of getting a 3rd newborn tommorow and controllong a large chunk of the vote, with that large chunk he can vote out a non-vampire and ensure his majority and his victory.

tl;dr We need to vote out borror0 and if we don't take him out today chances are he is going to win.

Offline flyawave

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essentially... that^
Borror0 is the vampire... end of, we can worry about werewolves later
There must a be a reason for tanking things. And all must be in certain balance.
But what that balance is, must depend only on you, nobody else.

Online suhaib

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hmmm,

after re-thinking i'm going to
change my vote to Borror0 !

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Offline Soulreaper77

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There are no werewolves left. Meomix, the only remaining werewolf, got lynched. And remember that when you are the lynch target you'll taken into custody and can't target ANYONE that day/night. Cause that will defeat the purpose of lynching.

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Offline Borror0

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There are no werewolves left. Meomix, the only remaining werewolf, got lynched. And remember that when you are the lynch target you'll taken into custody and can't target ANYONE that day/night. Cause that will defeat the purpose of lynching.

Oh really? Then how do you interpret Tiffanys' earlier post? There is at least one werewolf left, most likely two. Chiyachan was able to attack his primary target, after turning Meomix into a werewolf. Fighting against the sheriff didn't keep him busy long enough.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 06:19:06 PM by Borror0 »

Offline flyawave

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just to double check the demon possessed the serial killer who then committed suicide, right?
There must a be a reason for tanking things. And all must be in certain balance.
But what that balance is, must depend only on you, nobody else.

Offline Soulreaper77

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There are no werewolves left. Meomix, the only remaining werewolf, got lynched. And remember that when you are the lynch target you'll taken into custody and can't target ANYONE that day/night. Cause that will defeat the purpose of lynching.

Oh really? Then how do you interpret Tiffanys' earlier post? There is at least one werewolf left, most likely two. Chiyachan was able to attack his primary target, after turning Meomix into a werewolf. Fighting against the sheriff didn't keep him busy long enough.

Day 1 - Chiyachan attacked Meomix and turned
Day 2 - Non moon night, nothing happens
Day 3 - Chiyachan gets lynched by the Vampire Council. He couldn't attack anyone. Meomix wanted to attack ilkaid but she got lynched before she could get to him. I think the Day 4 report even says that.
Day 4 - Today

So there are no werewolves left. All depends on the rule "People who hold the majority lynch vote get taken into custody and can't go out" which was used in round 3 as far as I know. If she could go out before she was lynched then yes there is a werewolf. 

EDIT: Wait what?!?! Chiyachan attacked 2 people on 1 night??? I thought 2 targets per night weren't possible.... If you get targeted by someone and you turn and attack them then that's it for the night. At least that's what I thought. It seems my ignorance is throwing off all my predictions -.-
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 06:40:04 PM by Soulreaper77 »

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Offline Borror0

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You didn't answer my question: how do you interpret Tiffanys' post?

EDIT: Ah!
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 06:52:23 PM by Borror0 »

Offline ilkaid

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The only ways I can see for someone to attack 2 people in one night are:
1) Vigilante/serial killer decides to shoot someone, gets attacked en route uses bullet to defend themselves, is given option of continuing on to their original target.
2) Vampire/werewolf goes to turn someone, is attacked and is then possibly given option to continue on to thier first target.
Therefore it follows that:
Chiya was not attacked he was detained hence his choice of target was switched to Meomix and he wasn't given the chance to continue on to Tomoya-kun the original target.
All borror0 is trying to do is prevent his own lynching so he can exert vampire control.
There shouldn't be any werewolves left, if someone who isn't borror0 has any objections to this please speak up.


Offline flyawave

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just wondering, does anyone else think that Ilkaid is a newborn?
There must a be a reason for tanking things. And all must be in certain balance.
But what that balance is, must depend only on you, nobody else.

Offline Borror0

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There shouldn't be any werewolves left, if someone who isn't borror0 has any objections to this please speak up.

How about Tiffanys:
Actually... killers have been sometimes known to continue on to their actual targets when stopped only for a short period of time.

Offline ilkaid

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There shouldn't be any werewolves left, if someone who isn't borror0 has any objections to this please speak up.

How about Tiffanys:
Actually... killers have been sometimes known to continue on to their actual targets when stopped only for a short period of time.

Well I don't know about you but I would consider being questioned by the sheriff to be more than 'a short period of time'
But you're going to fight my logic all the way.
And flyawave if I was a newborn why would I be voting for the vampire and doing my best to get him lynched?
I am an innocent and all I'm trying to do is get an innocent victory.

Offline flyawave

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well, you never can be too sure
There must a be a reason for tanking things. And all must be in certain balance.
But what that balance is, must depend only on you, nobody else.

Offline tomoya-kun

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How many innocents are there to begin with?


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Offline ilkaid

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How many innocents are there to begin with?

17 players, 3 killers, 1 killer subverter, 4 protectors that leaves 9 innocents at the start of the game

Offline scotsman

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These rules are just confusing me ???. I thought the paladin couldn't be turned into a vampire. I also thought that the werewolf got detained by sheriff then they wouldn't go on and attack someone, however it never says about when the sheriff was turned into a werewolf if he could attack someone even if he takes someone else into custody.

Offline ilkaid

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These rules are just confusing me ???. I thought the paladin couldn't be turned into a vampire. I also thought that the werewolf got detained by sheriff then they wouldn't go on and attack someone, however it never says about when the sheriff was turned into a werewolf if he could attack someone even if he takes someone else into custody.

From the 1st post:
Quote
(The vampire) Can be stopped by Paladin, but not killed. The Paladin however is subsequently turned. Their protected target will remain unaffected.
I'm pretty certain that a detained werewolf will only attack the sheriff. The confusion is caused by Borror0 (the vampire) trying to convince everyone a werewolf is about and that they are a danger in an effort to escape the noose.
As for the 3rd part, I'm not sure how it works.

Offline Borror0

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Well I don't know about you but I would consider being questioned by the sheriff to be more than 'a short period of time'

Considering that Tiffanys' post was in response to someone else claiming that there is only one werewolf, and considering that Tiffanys clearly said that there are two werewolves in an earlier post, you're wrong. For a werewolf on a full moon night, being questioned by the sheriff isn't time consuming: after a short amount of time, the sheriff is either dead or on your side.

If you think otherwise, you're wrong. Tiffanys clearly spelled out there was another werewolf beside Meomix and Chiyachan.
« Last Edit: October 02, 2010, 09:36:22 PM by Borror0 »

Offline Borror0

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Apparently, ilkaid is hoping for "an innocent victory."

Ha! Don't make me laugh.

No matter the outcome of this deathmatch, one thing is clear: innocents have already lost. The choice left to you is whether you want to join the ranks of Queen Ophelia or if you want to be mauled to death by werewolves. Immortality or death, which do you prefer?

Here is the current population of Baka Town:
1 vampire
2 newborn vampires
1 demon
2 werewolves
4 innocents*

If you do vote me out tonight, you'll have to vote tomoya-kun out the next night. Otherwise, there is a good chance the town's population will consist of three werewolves and three non-werewolves the following day. That is, the demon will probably manage to kill one target over the next two nights, someone else will be lynched, someone will be killed by a werewolf, and someone else will be turned into a werewolf. Basically, you will have to vote tomoya-kun out the next day.

However, if you do vote for tomoya-kun, the town's population will probably consist of mostly vampires afterwards! That is, the new vampire will turn an innocent into a newborn vampire bringing the total vampire population to three... out of 5-7 people, with possibly only one of those even being an innocent at that point.

So, don't make me laugh you fools. Innocents have already lost. Whatever the outcome will be, innocents cannot win.

However, not all hopes are lost for you mere mortals. I have a very generous offer. If you submit to my power now, I will kindly turn you into vampires. Rather than a painful death, IMMORTALITY awaits you if you accept my offer. Rather than defeat, victory awaits you. Surrender to me, and you shall be victorious! If you all side with me tonight, and vote to lynch ilkaid, you will be forgiven your past sins and be welcomed to our ranks.

I hereby change my vote to ilkaid and hope you will take my offer, for that is your last hope to taste victory.

Submit to my power. It is your last chance.



*I use innocents as a category for innocents and protectors.

Offline ilkaid

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It seems Borror0 is trying to scare us into defeat  ::)

Alright then I'll go along with the hypothetical situation Chiya managed to turn his original target back on day 1.
You claim innocents have already lost. However keep a few very important facts in mind.
1) If we Lynch Borror0 tonight, One of his newborns becomes the new vampire (A *very* important question for Tiff: Does the newborn who becomes a full vampire get to target someone the same night as the first vampire is lynched or will they have to wait a night?) depending on the anwser we may get a nights break from the bloodsuckers.
2) You claim the werewolf has already managed to convert someone, what if the target was proteced by the doctor? We may only have one werewolf, who by the logical you display must be Tomoya-kun.
3) We get the 2nd vampire and all newborns revert, we could get the paladin back.
4) There is still the vigilante with his 2 shiny silver bullets.
5) There must still be a doctor.

Assuming and it is a big assuption I know that the first 2 points are true (ignoring the demon for the moment) we are left with:
1 Vampire
1 Newborn vampire
1 Demon
1 Werewolf
5 Innocents (including doctor and vigilante)

Even if we assume the worst, there are two werewolves, we lynch Borror0, the new vampire turns an innocent and the demon kills an innocent
1 Vampire
2 Newborn Vampire
1 Demon
2 Werewolves
2 Innocents

We would be in trouble here but we vote out the next vampire and then innocents outnumber everyone.
Don't count us out yet Borror0 we're still in this.