Incest

[Soulreaper77]

*adding to my who cents*

And whether most people like it or not we are in a (well most of us) are in a civilized world and to me this isn't very civilized. Although this is just my opinion and i am simply expressing it. (also goes against my beliefs in the bible and god) but lets not bring religion into this because i really do hate religion (theres a differance between believing and being a crazy religious crusader person who breaks down doors and shoves shit down peoples throughts) /sidenote lol i got off topic sorry

Allowing freedom of choice in partners is something civilized, is it not? 

Yes, but with that you're also allowing the retardation of their children. Whereas with normal partner choice that is 80% preventable. So would you knowingly want to give a child an mental handicap because you love your freedom so much?

Incest = retarded children? Proof?

Inbreeding = higher chance on genetic diseases or if you don't believe me Coefficient of relationship and Inbreeding. Now let's say the mother has a recessive gene which causes Huntington (or any other disease) and she gets kids. The kids now both have that recessive gene. If the brother and the sister decide to produce offspring then there is a 25% chance that any one of their kids has the recessive gene twice and thus getting the disease. If two strangers produce offspring then there is very little chance that any of their children will get the actual disease, they may become a carrier but that's as far it will go.

As for the list of diseases that have a way higher chance of occurring with inbreeding and cause mental retardation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanconi_anemia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberous_sclerosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactosemia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelman_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cri_du_chat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisomy_18

I bet there are more than just these. Some are very rare 1/350000 people and some are as common as 1/3000 people. Now when inbreeding you raise the chance of all these diseases to considerable levels. And while it doesn't always happen I wouldn't want anybody to take the risk.

[tomoya-kun]

*adding to my who cents*

And whether most people like it or not we are in a (well most of us) are in a civilized world and to me this isn't very civilized. Although this is just my opinion and i am simply expressing it. (also goes against my beliefs in the bible and god) but lets not bring religion into this because i really do hate religion (theres a differance between believing and being a crazy religious crusader person who breaks down doors and shoves shit down peoples throughts) /sidenote lol i got off topic sorry

Allowing freedom of choice in partners is something civilized, is it not? 

Yes, but with that you're also allowing the retardation of their children. Whereas with normal partner choice that is 80% preventable. So would you knowingly want to give a child an mental handicap because you love your freedom so much?

If that's the case, wouldn't we be better off not letting anyone but geniuses breed?  In a few generations we'd surely reap great benefits from this.

Stupidity is not equal to a mental handicap. Besides intelligence is not gene based. Even the most idiotic parents can bore a genius on the level of Newton. 

Two parents of higher intelligence are more likely to create an intelligent child.  if we really wanted to make our population smarter, we would sterilize all the stupid people. 

[Soulreaper77]

*adding to my who cents*

And whether most people like it or not we are in a (well most of us) are in a civilized world and to me this isn't very civilized. Although this is just my opinion and i am simply expressing it. (also goes against my beliefs in the bible and god) but lets not bring religion into this because i really do hate religion (theres a differance between believing and being a crazy religious crusader person who breaks down doors and shoves shit down peoples throughts) /sidenote lol i got off topic sorry

Allowing freedom of choice in partners is something civilized, is it not? 

Yes, but with that you're also allowing the retardation of their children. Whereas with normal partner choice that is 80% preventable. So would you knowingly want to give a child an mental handicap because you love your freedom so much?

If that's the case, wouldn't we be better off not letting anyone but geniuses breed?  In a few generations we'd surely reap great benefits from this.

Stupidity is not equal to a mental handicap. Besides intelligence is not gene based. Even the most idiotic parents can bore a genius on the level of Newton. 

Two parents of higher intelligence are more likely to create an intelligent child.  if we really wanted to make our population smarter, we would sterilize all the stupid people. 

No, there is no proof that genetics play a part in a person's intelligence level. There are genetic disorders that disorder one's intelligence level, such as Down's Syndrome. But that's as far as it goes.
A kid raised by more intelligent parents will be more intelligent himself, if he likes it or not. Intelligent parents expose the child to different vocabulary (as in they use more difficult wording to say something), they plan activities normal or stupid parents wouldn't (like trips to science museums or art galleries instead of a theme park) and they most likely teach their child in the subjects they already receive at school. They also press the child more to do his homework and to play less.
But this all doesn't mean that stupid parents can't get an intelligent child. I've seen it happen. The smartest guy at my school had parents who had the lowest kind of degree you can get here, probably something that's on the level of an crafts school. He went on to a university to do mechanical engineering, which is a pretty high level field I think.
IMO it all depends on how you decide to raise your child. Do you choose to let him/her play or study? Do you care about whether he/she will succeed or not? Do you actively try to convince your child to seek out more intelligent activities? That sort of thing. Until there is concrete proof that a person's intelligence level is in fact based on genes for a major part I will stand by this.

[x5ga]

*adding to my who cents*

And whether most people like it or not we are in a (well most of us) are in a civilized world and to me this isn't very civilized. Although this is just my opinion and i am simply expressing it. (also goes against my beliefs in the bible and god) but lets not bring religion into this because i really do hate religion (theres a differance between believing and being a crazy religious crusader person who breaks down doors and shoves shit down peoples throughts) /sidenote lol i got off topic sorry

Allowing freedom of choice in partners is something civilized, is it not? 

Yes, but with that you're also allowing the retardation of their children. Whereas with normal partner choice that is 80% preventable. So would you knowingly want to give a child an mental handicap because you love your freedom so much?

Incest = retarded children? Proof?

Inbreeding = higher chance on genetic diseases or if you don't believe me Coefficient of relationship and Inbreeding. Now let's say the mother has a recessive gene which causes Huntington (or any other disease) and she gets kids. The kids now both have that recessive gene. If the brother and the sister decide to produce offspring then there is a 25% chance that any one of their kids has the recessive gene twice and thus getting the disease. If two strangers produce offspring then there is very little chance that any of their children will get the actual disease, they may become a carrier but that's as far it will go.

As for the list of diseases that have a way higher chance of occurring with inbreeding and cause mental retardation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanconi_anemia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberous_sclerosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactosemia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelman_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cri_du_chat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisomy_18

I bet there are more than just these. Some are very rare 1/350000 people and some are as common as 1/3000 people. Now when inbreeding you raise the chance of all these diseases to considerable levels. And while it doesn't always happen I wouldn't want anybody to take the risk.

Well, while I do agree that with inbreeding you'll get children who'll probably have an autosomal recessive disease, the risks of developing Angelman, Cri-du-chat and Edward's disease (trisomy 18) are most likely the same, since the first one is related to genetic imprinting, the second is a deletion which usually appears spontaneously and the third one is a numeric anomaly (3 copies of the 18th chromosome instead of 2). Also, tuberous sclerosis is autosomal dominant, so it's not a good example because at least one of the parents manifests symptoms, and his/her baby will have the same risk of inheriting the disease - the other parent doesn't matter (unless he/she also suffers from the disease, then the risk is at least doubled).

Fanconi anemia and Galactosemia are Autosomal recessive diseases and inbred children have a much bigger chance of inheriting them, though Fanconi Anemia does not usually cause mental retardation (it only increases the risk of developing cancers, since an enzyme involved in DNA repairing is damaged/absent) and Galactosemia only causes brain damage if it is not diagnosed at birth (and there's a quick screening available for it) and/or if the child does not follow the recommended diet (no food containing galactose or galactose compounds).

EDIT: forgot to say this: with autosomal recessive diseases, mental retardation is your least concern. Survival should be the first one. These are usually metabolic diseases (usually lack of an enzyme, or the replacement of an enzyme with a defective/abnormal version of it) that screw up everything in your body. With Tay-Sachs you die when you're 5y.o. (on average). With Niemann-Pick you die after living for 1.5y up to 12-14y, depending of the subtype of the disease. And don't even google images of babies born with Harlequin-type Ichthyosis, you won't sleep well at night. Of course, there are autosomal recessive disorders that cause mental retardation (MORM syndrome, Kapur-Toriello syndrome... etc), but you'll have bigger problems that being a bit dumb.

[Soulreaper77]

Incest = retarded children? Proof?

Inbreeding = higher chance on genetic diseases or if you don't believe me Coefficient of relationship and Inbreeding. Now let's say the mother has a recessive gene which causes Huntington (or any other disease) and she gets kids. The kids now both have that recessive gene. If the brother and the sister decide to produce offspring then there is a 25% chance that any one of their kids has the recessive gene twice and thus getting the disease. If two strangers produce offspring then there is very little chance that any of their children will get the actual disease, they may become a carrier but that's as far it will go.

(click to show/hide)

As for the list of diseases that have a way higher chance of occurring with inbreeding and cause mental retardation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanconi_anemia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberous_sclerosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactosemia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelman_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cri_du_chat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisomy_18

I bet there are more than just these. Some are very rare 1/350000 people and some are as common as 1/3000 people. Now when inbreeding you raise the chance of all these diseases to considerable levels. And while it doesn't always happen I wouldn't want anybody to take the risk.

Well, while I do agree that with inbreeding you'll get children who'll probably have an autosomal recessive disease, the risks of developing Angelman, Cri-du-chat and Edward's disease (trisomy 18) are most likely the same, since the first one is related to genetic imprinting, the second is a deletion which usually appears spontaneously and the third one is a numeric anomaly (3 copies of the 18th chromosome instead of 2). Also, tuberous sclerosis is autosomal dominant, so it's not a good example because at least one of the parents manifests symptoms, and his/her baby will have the same risk of inheriting the disease - the other parent doesn't matter (unless he/she also suffers from the disease, then the risk is at least doubled).

Fanconi anemia and Galactosemia are Autosomal recessive diseases and inbred children have a much bigger chance of inheriting them, though Fanconi Anemia does not usually cause mental retardation (it only increases the risk of developing cancers, since an enzyme involved in DNA repairing is damaged/absent) and Galactosemia only causes brain damage if it is not diagnosed at birth (and there's a quick screening available for it) and/or if the child does not follow the recommended diet (no food containing galactose or galactose compounds).

Ok I may have chosen some bad examples but that's because I'm no doctor or geneticist but my point still stands. Even if the disease itself doesn't directly causes retardation then just having it will cause it as the child won't be able to fully concentrate on education, or even concentrate at all. And if the future children can't concentrate on education then all the higher educated people will disappear and thus society becomes stupid. 

[sdedalus83]

Incest = retarded children? Proof?

Inbreeding = higher chance on genetic diseases or if you don't believe me Coefficient of relationship and Inbreeding. Now let's say the mother has a recessive gene which causes Huntington (or any other disease) and she gets kids. The kids now both have that recessive gene. If the brother and the sister decide to produce offspring then there is a 25% chance that any one of their kids has the recessive gene twice and thus getting the disease. If two strangers produce offspring then there is very little chance that any of their children will get the actual disease, they may become a carrier but that's as far it will go.

(click to show/hide)

As for the list of diseases that have a way higher chance of occurring with inbreeding and cause mental retardation:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fanconi_anemia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuberous_sclerosis
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactosemia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelman_syndrome
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cri_du_chat
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trisomy_18

I bet there are more than just these. Some are very rare 1/350000 people and some are as common as 1/3000 people. Now when inbreeding you raise the chance of all these diseases to considerable levels. And while it doesn't always happen I wouldn't want anybody to take the risk.

Well, while I do agree that with inbreeding you'll get children who'll probably have an autosomal recessive disease, the risks of developing Angelman, Cri-du-chat and Edward's disease (trisomy 18) are most likely the same, since the first one is related to genetic imprinting, the second is a deletion which usually appears spontaneously and the third one is a numeric anomaly (3 copies of the 18th chromosome instead of 2). Also, tuberous sclerosis is autosomal dominant, so it's not a good example because at least one of the parents manifests symptoms, and his/her baby will have the same risk of inheriting the disease - the other parent doesn't matter (unless he/she also suffers from the disease, then the risk is at least doubled).

Fanconi anemia and Galactosemia are Autosomal recessive diseases and inbred children have a much bigger chance of inheriting them, though Fanconi Anemia does not usually cause mental retardation (it only increases the risk of developing cancers, since an enzyme involved in DNA repairing is damaged/absent) and Galactosemia only causes brain damage if it is not diagnosed at birth (and there's a quick screening available for it) and/or if the child does not follow the recommended diet (no food containing galactose or galactose compounds).

Ok I may have chosen some bad examples but that's because I'm no doctor or geneticist but my point still stands. Even if the disease itself doesn't directly causes retardation then just having it will cause it as the child won't be able to fully concentrate on education, or even concentrate at all. And if the future children can't concentrate on education then all the higher educated people will disappear and thus society becomes stupid. 

He's talking about diseases which kill, maim, and cripple little kids and you still care about whether they're mentally deficient.

[Soulreaper77]

He's talking about diseases which kill, maim, and cripple little kids and you still care about whether they're mentally deficient.

Ok let's just come to the conclusion that inbreeding brings forth horrible diseases and for that sole reason it should be forbidden and fortunately it is. But the original question was "Incest = retarded children?" and thus I focused on that aspect more than on the others.

[TightMuffin]

I think Soul is just jealous, because he doesn't have a sister of his own to fuck.

[Soulreaper77]

I think Soul is just jealous, because he doesn't have a sister of his own to fuck.

In fact I do have a sister but she's the worst sister ever. She always makes me look like the perpetrator and gets away with it a lot too. Dammit my parents even thought that I smoked while she was the one that did. And my parents are really against smoking so imagine what kind of scolding I had to endure because of that evil bitch....

[x5ga]

I think Soul is just jealous, because he doesn't have a sister of his own to fuck.

In fact I do have a sister but she's the worst sister ever. She always makes me look like the perpetrator and gets away with it a lot too. Dammit my parents even thought that I smoked while she was the one that did. And my parents are really against smoking so imagine what kind of scolding I had to endure because of that evil bitch....

Maybe she's tsundere for you? Or trying to get your attention that way? Maybe she's acting like that girl from Ore no Imouto, only with more incest-craving.

[Soulreaper77]

I think Soul is just jealous, because he doesn't have a sister of his own to fuck.

In fact I do have a sister but she's the worst sister ever. She always makes me look like the perpetrator and gets away with it a lot too. Dammit my parents even thought that I smoked while she was the one that did. And my parents are really against smoking so imagine what kind of scolding I had to endure because of that evil bitch....

Maybe she's tsundere for you? Or trying to get your attention that way? Maybe she's acting like that girl from Ore no Imouto, only with more incest-craving.

I don't think tsunderes push you in front of moving cars or slam glass doors in your face so your arms get cut open by the sharp glass and then pretending that it wasn't her fault *sigh*.
Key element of tsuderes is that they never get dangerously violent while my sister has done so a lot of times. Like when she was flipping pancakes she decided to rid of the oil on the spatula by waving it around while I was there pouring my drink. 200 degrees C oil droplets hurt man.

[x5ga]

I think Soul is just jealous, because he doesn't have a sister of his own to fuck.

In fact I do have a sister but she's the worst sister ever. She always makes me look like the perpetrator and gets away with it a lot too. Dammit my parents even thought that I smoked while she was the one that did. And my parents are really against smoking so imagine what kind of scolding I had to endure because of that evil bitch....

Maybe she's tsundere for you? Or trying to get your attention that way? Maybe she's acting like that girl from Ore no Imouto, only with more incest-craving.

I don't think tsunderes push you in front of moving cars or slam glass doors in your face so your arms get cut open by the sharp glass and then pretending that it wasn't her fault *sigh*.
Key element of tsuderes is that they never get dangerously violent while my sister has done so a lot of times. Like when she was flipping pancakes she decided to rid of the oil on the spatula by waving it around while I was there pouring my drink. 200 degrees C oil droplets hurt man.

... fuck. seriously, your sister is either sadistic or she purely hates you. How old is she? She seems to be similar to one of my ex-girlfriends...

[CodeMonkey]

I don't think tsunderes push you in front of moving cars or slam glass doors in your face so your arms get cut open by the sharp glass and then pretending that it wasn't her fault *sigh*.
Key element of tsuderes is that they never get dangerously violent while my sister has done so a lot of times. Like when she was flipping pancakes she decided to rid of the oil on the spatula by waving it around while I was there pouring my drink. 200 degrees C oil droplets hurt man.

Only one thing comes to mind:
Well calculated and sever revenge upon such an individual.

On to the topic at hand...
The fact that close blood relationship inbreeding, "incest" has a large chance or probability of causing anatomical and physiological problems has been a long studied and proven fact. Aside from from that, even if somehow the offspring isn't diseased or deformed, there is also a strong chance of psychological trauma, from either the child discovering that the parents are close blood relation and reacting from sociocultural ingrained thought or it being found out by others that the child is begotten from an incestuous relationship or even both might occur, which has a strong likelihood of psychologically scarring and/or making the child dysfunctional. There is a greater threat to inbred offspring then just the bad genetics that are highly possible.

Now on to the matter of intelligence. It seems to be forgotten that whom and what we are is a balance between 2 things; Genetics AND upbringing or environment. Statistically speaking, 2 intelligent or well educated, "smart" people have a much higher chance of producing smart children then "stupid" people, which is simple logic and statistics. Studies have shown that 2 smart and/or educated people will raise their offspring in a similar educational environment as their own, as will 2  "dumb" people. There you have the balance between genetics and upbringing; good genes plus good upbringing will produce good children, while bad genes with bad upbringing will produce bad children. Of course there are exceptions to the rule and I am only speaking in general terms, but those are the accepted norms.

As for "incest = retarded children", well yes, statistically there is a higher chance of retardation from a variety of inbred problems ranging from development to metabolism, but I personally don't think that any couple that would produce children from an incestuous relationship would be all too well educated, which goes back to my statement about breeding and upbringing. Incest, performed by most likely badly or un-educated people has a higher probability of not only have bad gene configurations, but also then raising their offspring with a poor educational background.

If a close blood relation couple is in love and want to be together, I really don't care, but if it produces offspring that will even further contaminate the gene pool, to that I ardently object.         

[Soulreaper77]

I think Soul is just jealous, because he doesn't have a sister of his own to fuck.

In fact I do have a sister but she's the worst sister ever. She always makes me look like the perpetrator and gets away with it a lot too. Dammit my parents even thought that I smoked while she was the one that did. And my parents are really against smoking so imagine what kind of scolding I had to endure because of that evil bitch....

Maybe she's tsundere for you? Or trying to get your attention that way? Maybe she's acting like that girl from Ore no Imouto, only with more incest-craving.

I don't think tsunderes push you in front of moving cars or slam glass doors in your face so your arms get cut open by the sharp glass and then pretending that it wasn't her fault *sigh*.
Key element of tsuderes is that they never get dangerously violent while my sister has done so a lot of times. Like when she was flipping pancakes she decided to rid of the oil on the spatula by waving it around while I was there pouring my drink. 200 degrees C oil droplets hurt man.

... fuck. seriously, your sister is either sadistic or she purely hates you. How old is she? She seems to be similar to one of my ex-girlfriends...

17 almost 18. And yes she's an evil witch I tell you. She has perfected the art of crying so whenever I even try to do something back she just cries and BAM I am the bad guy.
She's one of those types that will humiliate you in front of your friends, and her friends and basically any company at all. And she's always been this evil as far as I can remember. Back when were we little she used to throw breakable stuff at me when she was angry or rub those burning plants (nettle or something) in my face or try to run me over with her bike....

Only one thing comes to mind:
Well calculated and sever revenge upon such an individual.        

How I would love to do this but my parents are really overprotective of her because she has some chronic ear disease. I avoid her as much as I can now.... Sad that it has to be this way.

[x5ga]

yup, she's similar to my ex-girlfriend. She's the devil. Also one of my friends had such problems with one of his cousins who was acting like a bitch (they were living together) and nobody believed him, and everything bad his cousin did was blamed on him. He snapped one day and took some drastic measures... When he was alone with his cousin, he beat the shit out of her with some pillows and semi-asphyxiated her with them. Then threatened her and said stuff like 'clearly nobody's gonna believe that I tried to kill you, there are also no marks on your body that indicate a fight...' etcetera... She got so scared that she instantly started acting more normal. I'm not saying I approve of what he did (I don't, I hate hitting girls), or that this is the optimum solution, this friend of mine is a nice guy who wouldn't hurt a fly, I'm just giving an example of an evil bitch being made normal again

[Hiero]

So she's a sadist?

Well there's something that caused her to be like that to you I'm sure down the line somewhere..all I can say is get away when you can because she's bringing the ruckus.

[Xenoran]

Personally i do not believe in reincarnation, however i am just using this as a figure of speach so to say, soulreaper, you REALLY must have done some bad shit to her in a previous life to recieve the massive amount of fuck she puts on you

[tomoya-kun]

Personally i do not believe in reincarnation, however i am just using this as a figure of speach so to say, soulreaper, you REALLY must have done some bad shit to her in a previous life to recieve the massive amount of fuck she puts on you

Yes, I wonder what happened there.  Maybe you killed here?  Or something else. 

[Xenoran]

Personally i do not believe in reincarnation, however i am just using this as a figure of speach so to say, soulreaper, you REALLY must have done some bad shit to her in a previous life to recieve the massive amount of fuck she puts on you

Yes, I wonder what happened there.  Maybe you killed here?  Or something else. 

not even killing her would deserve that much just pure fuck .... soul must have like been a nazi in a former life and soul's sister was a jew or something and put her through hell or some shit .... must have tourtured her like  no other and shown her what real pain is cuz there in no other way soul would deserve that much .... agian .... that much just pure fuck

[Sebur]

I think Soul is just jealous, because he doesn't have a sister of his own to fuck.

In fact I do have a sister but she's the worst sister ever. She always makes me look like the perpetrator and gets away with it a lot too. Dammit my parents even thought that I smoked while she was the one that did. And my parents are really against smoking so imagine what kind of scolding I had to endure because of that evil bitch....

Maybe she's tsundere for you? Or trying to get your attention that way? Maybe she's acting like that girl from Ore no Imouto, only with more incest-craving.

I don't think tsunderes push you in front of moving cars or slam glass doors in your face so your arms get cut open by the sharp glass and then pretending that it wasn't her fault *sigh*.
Key element of tsuderes is that they never get dangerously violent while my sister has done so a lot of times. Like when she was flipping pancakes she decided to rid of the oil on the spatula by waving it around while I was there pouring my drink. 200 degrees C oil droplets hurt man.

... fuck. seriously, your sister is either sadistic or she purely hates you. How old is she? She seems to be similar to one of my ex-girlfriends...

17 almost 18. And yes she's an evil witch I tell you. She has perfected the art of crying so whenever I even try to do something back she just cries and BAM I am the bad guy.
She's one of those types that will humiliate you in front of your friends, and her friends and basically any company at all. And she's always been this evil as far as I can remember. Back when were we little she used to throw breakable stuff at me when she was angry or rub those burning plants (nettle or something) in my face or try to run me over with her bike....

Only one thing comes to mind:
Well calculated and sever revenge upon such an individual.        

How I would love to do this but my parents are really overprotective of her because she has some chronic ear disease. I avoid her as much as I can now.... Sad that it has to be this way.

Wow don't be such a wimp, talk to her about it and if she doesn't listen yell at her if whenever she tries something. Seriously if my sister ever treated me like that she wouldn't get away with it.