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Whats the best dub you have heard?
Zalis116:
--- Quote from: Relic2279 ---Best dubs ever usually are on Adult Swim, because they are geard for younger adults and haven't been bastardized (at least in the way most dubbed anime has been.)
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What are you basing the "most dubbed anime has been bastardized" claim on? What about all the shows that've been released on DVD with no TV-edited version? To name a few random examples, stuff like Geneshaft, Mermaid Forest, Mythical Detective Loki Ragnarok, Otogi Zoshi, To Heart, or The World of Narue. There's no video edits or missing episodes or plot changes or any other hallmarks of bastardization. Aside from some rewrites to match mouth flaps and make conversations more natural in English, they're essentially the same shows in a different language. Yeah, there will always be a few puns & references that get missed, but that's the case with subtitled versions as well.
--- Quote ---But ... I ... Must .. Destroy ... Funimation
Worst dub ever award, hands down, I will fight anyone who says otherwise: Dragonball Z
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I don't disagree about the old DBZ dub, but come on, that was 10+ years ago and since then Funimation has released a bunch of other series and an uncut (widescreen cropping aside) version of DBZ. Quality of acting aside, the dubs for shows like Gunslinger Girl, Fruits Basket, and Rumbling Hearts have been quite faithful. Granted, some of their dubs like Desert Punk and Negima! are on the liberal side, but they're still nothing like the old DBZ dub.
--- Quote ---Thank god he hasn't seen more dubbed anime. Ignorance is bliss. I speak Japanese, and watching anime, then say, seeing it on TV (depending on the anime), the translations are HORRID. The voices don't convey the emotion, they miss half the puns, and on anime that isn't aired on adult swim, they can change the plot.
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If he wants to remain in that state of blissful ignorance, that's fine, but I take issue with people making broad statements based on limited information. For instance, if somebody said "I've only seen Pokemon / Bible Black and I think that all anime is kids' stuff / porn," would you find that reasonable? Just as there's a wide variety of anime out there, there's a wide variety of English dubs out there, and a limited sample isn't enough to make a judgement on the whole field. And once again, there's a huge body of anime that's been released on DVD over the years with no significant plot changes. Yeah, there were a few that got "Fosterized," like Orphen, Generator Gawl, and the previously mentioned Ghost Stories, but those are still a < 2% minority. It's true that some of the highest-profile shows to come over here have been heavily edited, like the old 1980s dubs, Sailor Moon, DBZ, Cardcaptor Sakura, Pokemon, One Piece (which Funimation is releasing on DVD unedited), and the rest of the 4Kids lineup. But numerically speaking, they're far outweighed by the quantity of series that have been released with no major edits.
relic2279:
--- Quote from: Zalis116 on June 24, 2008, 02:07:57 AM --- What are you basing the "most dubbed anime has been bastardized" claim on?
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15+ years of watching anime would be my basis. Also knowing the language helps. Lately, (i hate to admit this) you are correct. There is alot of anime that isn't/hasn't been ruined like DBZ was. But you still miss the culture, emotion and pun of the original source. If you are a fan of Japanese culture, why even argue this?
--- Quote ---the dubs for shows like Gunslinger Girl, Fruits Basket, and Rumbling Hearts have been quite faithful. Granted, some of their dubs like Desert Punk and Negima! are on the liberal side, but they're still nothing like the old DBZ dub.
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They are getting better in the DVD releases, but I was mainly referrng to older anime and anime that is aired on TV (exception being "adult" swim")
--- Quote ---If he wants to remain in that state of blissful ignorance, that's fine, but I take issue with people making broad statements based on limited information. For instance, if somebody said "I've only seen Pokemon / Bible Black and I think that all anime is kids' stuff / porn," would you find that reasonable?
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Heh. I can't really respond to this statement without trying to one up someone or look like I'm boasting. I've been watching anime since 1994. We will just leave it at that. I've seen my share. I will agree with you that anime is getting better as far as dubs are concerned. I believe thats due to the production companies becoming more liberal.
But if only watching dubs makes you believe you are a true anime fan, you are seriously wrong. You are not grasping the culture which anime is partially about.
--- Quote --- Just as there's a wide variety of anime out there, there's a wide variety of English dubs out there, and a limited sample isn't enough to make a judgement on the whole field. And once again, there's a huge body of anime that's been released on DVD over the years with no significant plot changes.
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I never said all dubbed anime was bad, or twisted. I said that "If all you watch is dubbed anime, you are not a true fan". Because while there is a wide variety out there, watching anime is also about absorbing the culture. You cannot even begin to do this when watching a dub.
~R
Hope lies just around the corner for dub watchers...
Zalis116:
--- Quote ---15+ years of watching anime would be my basis. Also knowing the language helps. Lately, (i hate to admit this) you are correct. There is a lot of anime that isn't/hasn't been ruined like DBZ was. But you still miss the culture, emotion and pun of the original source. If you are a fan of Japanese culture, why even argue this?
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We'll have to agree to disagree on the definition of "bastardized" here. To me, if an English dub doesn't change the original characters, plot, video, or music, then it's okay on the "ruination" front. (Once again, this is setting acting quality aside.) Yeah, there's some localization to deal with cultural references, puns, and other linguistic issues, but even subtitles (both fan and pro) are a form of localization. As the adage goes, "A joke isn't funny if it has to be explained." Funny scenes & dialogue are meant to make the viewer laugh, so a good English dub will find a way to make the joke work in English, rather than doing a literal translation of a Japanese joke that doesn't work in English. As far as culture goes, what about series like Last Exile, Berserk, and Chrono Crusade? Those aren't set in Japan, the character names aren't Japanese, and IIRC there aren't any Japanese-specific jokes or references...so where's the harm in dubbing them into English?
--- Quote ---But if only watching dubs makes you believe you are a true anime fan, you are seriously wrong. You are not grasping the culture which anime is partially about.
I never said all dubbed anime was bad, or twisted. I said that "If all you watch is dubbed anime, you are not a true fan". Because while there is a wide variety out there, watching anime is also about absorbing the culture. You cannot even begin to do this when watching a dub.
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I didn't touch on the "true fan" issue because I don't really believe that being "true fan" has anything to do with language preferences. I know you may have been using the "general you" there, but for the record, I don't watch only watch dubs. I watch a mix of English dubs, fansubs, and official subtitled versions. So while I've only been seriously watching anime since 2003 (after being exposed to the horribly-edited Sailor Moon in the late 90s and others before that), I feel I've seen a good representation of all the major avenues of English-translated anime. And I do know enough Japanese to detect the "deculturizations" in dubs and subtitles. But that knowledge is a double-edged sword. When I didn't understand Japanese, I thought all subtitled anime was awesome because the language was exotic and unknown to me. But as I studied and understood more, I realized how repetitive and uncreative a lot of anime dialogue really is. Especially the overuse of certain words and phrases, and not just simple ones like "ganbaru" and its variants, either.
Also on the culture front, I don't think that watching anime is necessarily about understanding Japanese culture. If people like learning more about Japan and its language/culture through anime, that's great. But if they like anime because they get to see giant robots charging their lasers or hot animated girls prancing around in skimpy outfits, that's fine too. As long as they simply enjoy and are passionate about anime, they're a "good enough fan" in my book.
relic2279:
--- Quote from: Zalis116 on June 24, 2008, 03:55:16 AM ---Also on the culture front, I don't think that watching anime is necessarily about understanding Japanese culture. If people like learning more about Japan and its language/culture through anime, that's great.
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At least you see where I am coming from. And I agree with your post for the most part.
Though, anime's like berserk, and "out of time/place" animes still have culture learning points to them. You can still begin to see things that they find funny or insulting during character dialogue which westerners may not. Also, they don't take to sarcasm the same way we do. So while someone may not be in a class studying Japanese culture or language, they still can pick up on this through repeated exposure.
But you are right. If someone does watch only dubbed animes, and they find it to their liking more power to them. I wouldn't call them a hardcore anime fan, but it's a step in the right direction :P I guess thats what I was getting at. I'm not trying to insult people who only watch dubbed animes, maybe only persuade them to the dark side :)
~R
maxxjulie:
you just said they're a lesser anime fan cuz they like dub only. i agree with the statement btw. if the dub is horrific, why not read some subtitles and hear it in Japanese? cuz people are too slow and can't read a few words in two seconds and then look at the animation. also, i can't believe how many say Berserk has a great dub. some of the characters are done really well, but not an overall great dub. it's liker night and day when you switch back from japanese to english. subbed is much better.
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