Are you bilingual?

[froody1911]

I know 3 languages well and 1 sorta.
The ones I know well are
English
Hindi
Marathi (both Indian languages)
French (sorta)

[Keraito]

..
Learning (at school):
..
- Old Greek
..

Modern Greek or Ancient Greek?
I studied classic philology for few years and I do not recall anything called Old Greek, thou I did study Ancient Greek for a year or so and Latin for 2 years (do not remember a thing any more. A bit of Latin, but Ancient Greek is just too fucked up for me)

I think Ancient Greek.
I translated it literally from Netherlands to English cuz I didn't know what it was xD
But it probably is Ancient Greek cuz it's not the Modern Greek that's used in Greece now,

[harpy]

Should I take a second year of Spanish or drop languages?

Be pro. Take German.

YA! German is awesome. I wish I'd done it instead of Latin

It would be more useful as well
Thou I do not share the same thought about German language, I do not like it, I hate the sound of it. Maybe I dislike it because of my primary school German teacher, but I truly dislike it.
and I quote I remember about German language (do not fully agree about what he is saying about Germany so I will not post that part as much as possible):
"..and you can't eat the food [in Germany] because you would have to complain about it and that would mean speaking German. It's a disgusting language, nobody should ever speak it. Even Hitler was vegetarian, that's how bad the food is. And you couldn't speak German because it's a horrible sound, it sounds like typewriters eating tinfoil being kicked down a stairs. Somebody is talking to you in German, they're saying 'Hackaliekielahachal oHAAAAch' and you're thinking 'What is happening to you from behind and how can we make it stop? Please go away.' Now that's not prejudice, that's just observation.” Dylan Moran (my favourite stand up comic)

..
Learning (at school):
..
- Old Greek
..

Modern Greek or Ancient Greek?
I studied classic philology for few years and I do not recall anything called Old Greek, thou I did study Ancient Greek for a year or so and Latin for 2 years (do not remember a thing any more. A bit of Latin, but Ancient Greek is just too fucked up for me)

I think Ancient Greek.
I translated it literally from Netherlands to English cuz I didn't know what it was xD
But it probably is Ancient Greek cuz it's not the Modern Greek that's used in Greece now,

should be it then. And I feel truly sorry for you having to learn it.
I simply do not understand the grammar, because most of the rules are made for 2-3 words and other words that goes under the same rule are exception and you have to learn and all the forms they come in and all the possible translations of the words (I had to get into philological aspect of the language not only the basic level of this language, I hope you do not have to do that)

[JoonasTo]

At least German beats English.
Having to study English would have been such a pain, thank god I learned it without studying.

[harpy]

English is a lot simpler then German.
I had to learn both of them

[JoonasTo]

No it isn't.
English sucks. There's exceptions to exceptions exceptions.
German is lovely. Even their irregulars are regular!

[moonlight]

Fluent:
Dutch
Vietnamese
English

Decent:
German

Survivable:
Japanese

Only up to the level of understanding insults:
French


My aim is to at least speak 5 languages fluently, almost there XD

[harpy]

No it isn't.
English sucks. There's exceptions to exceptions exceptions.
German is lovely. Even their irregulars are regular!

I found German to be a lot harder, the grammar itself and the use of the regular and irregular thingies and other little stuff is insane.

(click to show/hide)

Yes English do have loads of exceptions and so on, but then again there are so little of word forms, verbs do have time dimension but nothing much else, like gender regarding if it is female or male speaking, not in the sense if it is a female or male gender word (I do not remember anything like that in English).
Yes English do have loads of little annoying rules made by the huge usage and history of the language, but as a language that should be learned it is simple. Well if it would not be as simple as it is it would not be used so widely, true we do have huge number of countries that use English, but we do have huge number of countries that use French, Spanish and even German.
The hard factor (the only one I can find) is the history of different use of the same words em expressions and such stuff. The culture of the language is hard.
I kind of regard the language to learn to my native one (Latvian). German is closer to my native and it is quite hard language to learn. My native language is really really new language as written language (it does have huge history as spoken language) so my native written language is more then anything based on German, Latin and later on on Russian languages. English have it's own history and huge dependence on how aristocrats used it so it do have these little totally random rules, but most of them (not all of them and most of these little random rules) are dying out and most of the time can be ignored (I know British people would kill me for saying this, but fact is fact). So I know more then anything that German grammar is a nightmare comparing to English

to put it simple - German have schematic grammar, that is really hard and should be learned as a complex system that can not be changed and is insanely picky on details so that the meaning would not be lost. English grammar is really random and the language itself is based on emotions and usage, it does have grammatical structure (no language that is not a private language and existence of a private language is close to impossible). Language can not exist without grammatical structure, but as a language it is simple, it does have huge history and just loads of expressions, but still as beautiful as it is it is rather simple language.
I do know English grammar and I do know loads of grammar stuff, but I fail to use it......

[JoonasTo]

That's why I find German easier than English. There are more rules yes. But when you learn the rules that's it.
You don't have to go remembering every little exception's exception's exception. It's simply more logical language.
You learn the rules, you learn the words. In English you learn the rules, learn the words, then you start learning the exceptions, then the exception's exceptions. Dives one crazy.

Really embeds itself into your brain when you try to teach it to someone. Teaching German you can just tell them when and why to use it. Teaching English to someone you can just say, that's just the way it is. You use this with this. Why? Oh, I don't know, because someone once thought it sounds better? You just got to know these, there's no logic.


So in short, there's just less to learn in German.

[harpy]

English sounds like one feels it and grammar comes after that
German you can not speak it without grammar.
I just fail at grammar just like I fail at mathematics formulas
I think I started English with learning exceptions in regard to words (like word forms in past future and present and that stuff) and then came grammar part of it To think of it I can not remember any exception things unless the usage of capital letter and some verb forms, but that's just me

I do not think that English is most used in the world because it sounds nice (did not say it before), it is most used because it is easy to use, there was many people using it already and most pop culture is in English...

To tell the truth I still do not understand we people say that French is beautiful language, I do not find it pleasing to the ear with all these "r" sounds and throat sounds.

[JoonasTo]

English is used because of the British Empire and the U.S.A. as simple as that.
Before it was German/French/Spanish/Arabic/Latin/Greek/Phoenician etc. etc.

You're right, French is horrible. 

[Meandola]

To tell the truth I still do not understand we people say that French is beautiful language, I do not find it pleasing to the ear with all these "r" sounds and throat sounds.

Joining the bandwagon, don't like French at all! I used to have French at school, I dropped it as soon as I was allowed to haha. I did German instead, also don't really like German, but it sounds a tiny bit like Dutch so it was the lesser of two evils

[duskfairy]

just one word: post-colonialism

why do we still have to learn languish like french, german, spanish, I wonder sometimes; well yeah many speak these lang indeed; but hey! the countries with most power in the world today isn't the same as before... thinking about BRIC, ASEAN+3 and so on... so guess it would be more sufficient to learn the kids in school (For those who have that privilege, which i guess the most of us here on baka had cuz we're here, many are billingual etc) languishes such as cantonese, mandarin... etc etc
    or what do you say?  


beside that;
I'm fluent in swedish and english
learnt french in school way back for...like...*counting* seven years so half
and when i grew up i were also fluent in sign languish for swedish- pretty useless now if you ask cause don't know any deaf persons today, but can can pick up the jint of a conversation in sign languish even in other lang.
will def trying to learn at least two more lang for the next two years... or at east try to do

[JoonasTo]

Learning chinese would be foolish compared to english, spanish or french. It's about geographic spread. Not about numbers.

[duskfairy]

maybe today indeed, but what i'm pointing at is that i think it would be more useful in the future... when the paradigm-shift finally have occurred to that point that even the old colonized langues is too old.
for example I heard that there's more mandarin sites and so on, on the web than english! dunno if it's true but wouldn't be too surprised if that's the case. i'm curious about the future and if all this nationalism and separate countries will withstand... and if the languish is the first thing to change; i mean, with globalism comes english and what will be next

[AceHigh]

just one word: post-colonialism

why do we still have to learn languish like french, german, spanish, I wonder sometimes; well yeah many speak these lang indeed; but hey! the countries with most power in the world today isn't the same as before... thinking about BRIC, ASEAN+3 and so on... so guess it would be more sufficient to learn the kids in school (For those who have that privilege, which i guess the most of us here on baka had cuz we're here, many are billingual etc) languishes such as cantonese, mandarin... etc etc
    or what do you say?  

I say you are assuming that export countries with a lot of poverty stricken rice farmers will ever make their language important. I assume it will not. Everything about China is fake, even it's artificially low (read: fake) currency and it's artificially maintained (read: fake) GDP growth. To make a point: most factories in China produce things that are designed in USA, Europe and Japan, so in the business world the European languages are still more important.

Also remember that South America, Spain and Portugal speaks Spanish and Portugese, so learn one of them and you are covered, North America, Australia and Britain speak English, and in Europe, Scandinavia can speak it too. Europe mainland however is a bit different, since they are stereotypically bad at English, but Germany, Austria and Switzerland speak German, as well as in Hungary and Poland and a few countries around them tend to know German as a second language better than English. Oh and if you learn Russian, you are supposed to understand people in Belarus, Ukraine and to some extent Serbia, Moldova and Bulgaria.

With that most Europe is covered plus the entire American hemisphere as well as Australia and New Zealand.

Here is an even better idea: learn Latin and then it will be easier to learn any languages from the Romanic language group as well as let you draw connection to many words in a Germanic language. (Because in modern Germanic language there are a lot of words that are latin derived).

I guess my point is that the more European languages you learn, the easier it will be to learn the next one.

[harpy]

It might be true that even more Chinese people will come here (well they will, their numbers are already increasing, but it not just Chinese people) and they do try to do that all shift from European culture (yes American culture is mostly based on European culture if someone was not informed up till now, well except it native inhabitants that are mostly killed of anyhow) to Asian culture (religion, culture and social groups are making really funny attempts at that as well) BUT there is just no way that we will fully shift from English/French/German/Spanish/Russian to Chinese. If it will truly be needed for an international person (in Europa or most of America, thou I do not really care what Americans do within their borders) it will be after we are dead and most likely after our children are dead.
What sane person would turn from a most used alphabetic system that is proven to be quite good for not only one but most part of the world to hieroglyphs...
Even French people are working on making their language simpler and they do not use hieroglyphs. Even pronouncing "hieroglyphs" is hard.......

[iindigo]

As far as cultural influence goes, the way it usually happens in America is one of two ways:

1) Immigrants learn English and join the mass American workforce and community. If these immigrants have kids, they'll be completely American in the way they act and speak.
2) They move to a little localized area of a big city where everyone speaks their native language and rarely go outside (this is particularly true of New York and Chicago).

It might not be the most politically correct stance to take, but most Americans hold the position of, "If you're coming to the US, you'd better learn English, because we're not learning any new languages to speak to you." Spanish is an obvious exception to this in the south, but other European and Asian languages are a very small minority when it comes to usage.

The downside to this is that many, many US citizens (easily over 60%) cannot speak a second language at all.

[AceHigh]

I wouldn't really hold American masses at fault for their views as you have pointed out iindigo.

Demographics is mostly to blame. Basically the same thing is with Chinese masses and Russians. I think the reason why Europeans are easily bi and even trilingual is because of so many different languages and cultures exist in such a small subcontinent. Also with the EU allowing people to freely travel within EU, there are even more people learning several languages.

So it's all about cultural influence and assosiations with ethnic groups that speak different languages. For example how many Americans on this forum have expressed the will to learn Japanese? On other hand why would Americans learn Spanish when it is the "lanugage of illegal Mexican immigrants who are taking our jobs?"

It's all about culture... Other example include people wanting to lear a fantasy language: elvish shortly afte LOTR was shown, or why did the German classes got more students when Rammstein was popular...


So in the end ther is no wonder that most Americans know only one lanugage. They have local entertainment industry, northern neigbour speaks English, southern neighbour should learn English or GTFO and English just happens to be lingua Franca. Americans are just victims of the demographics as there is nothing to motivate them to learn languages.

[duskfairy]

Demographics is mostly to blame. Basically the same thing is with Chinese masses and Russians. I think the reason why Europeans are easily bi and even trilingual is because of so many different languages and cultures exist in such a small subcontinent. Also with the EU allowing people to freely travel within EU, there are even more people learning several languages.

Ehm.... once again; colonialism. It was- and in many extent still is- a really filthy action....you should really learn more about it I suppose before saying things that sounds like a holiday-trip-all-of-it, and not that countless of people died and so on. Europeans occupied and colonized many areas in the world and therefore European languish is still valid there... and the prize for the locals in the different areas weren't cheap. Bear that in mind please.

As far as cultural influence goes, the way it usually happens in America is one of two ways:

1) Immigrants learn English and join the mass American workforce and community. If these immigrants have kids, they'll be completely American in the way they act and speak.
2) They move to a little localized area of a big city where everyone speaks their native language and rarely go outside (this is particularly true of New York and Chicago).

It might not be the most politically correct stance to take, but most Americans hold the position of, "If you're coming to the US, you'd better learn English, because we're not learning any new languages to speak to you." Spanish is an obvious exception to this in the south, but other European and Asian languages are a very small minority when it comes to usage.

And that it's what others might call racism.
And is it fully their own choice to live in the suburbs? Isn't it just another form of township?

It might be true that even more Chinese people will come here (well they will, their numbers are already increasing, but it not just Chinese people) and they do try to do that all shift from European culture /.../ BUT there is just no way that we will fully shift from English/French/German/Spanish/Russian to Chinese. /.../ it will be after we are dead and most likely after our children are dead.
What sane person would turn from a most used alphabetic system that is proven to be quite good for not only one but most part of the world to hieroglyphs...

Chinese and other Asian ppl IS spreading, but what's bad with that? As I already stated beore; that's globalization (that has it's root in colonialism, as the Europens started; so go ahead and blame China for a second wave of colonialism. OFC they all doing it for their own sake, more than often because of money and power. Different is that even if China (for example, Asia is big...) is rapidly growing and earning power (more than US), they don't kill in the same amount as the colnialist did or all the wars in the 1900's for to earn power...
Look at many countries in Africa for example; many chinese living there peacefully - they rather working in and owning whole or parts of company's than trying to forcefully taking their land, their womens and so on brutally like the europeans did... and we in west calling ourselves 'democracy'... hm.

So well; as I wrote before; in the future - and yeah even if it's hundred years from now it's still not to early to start thinking about it, althougt I think it will be faster than 100 years.

I say you are assuming that export countries with a lot of poverty stricken rice farmers will ever make their language important. I assume it will not. Everything about China is fake, even it's artificially low (read: fake) currency and it's artificially maintained (read: fake) GDP growth. To make a point: most factories in China produce things that are designed in USA, Europe and Japan, so in the business world the European languages are still more important.

Not true.
The strongest economies now is China, Japan, Singapore, India, Brazil, USA...
I'm studying about this at uni, so know  what I'm talking about, even if I of course doesn't know everything and ofc can be wrong; but am really sure on that you're wrong here, AceHigh.
And China isn't only "poverty stricken rice farmers" longer- rather the opposite- vibrant urbanity that is growing rapidly and lot's og migration.
Dunno what exactly 'business world' you referring to; but Europe isn't the leading one any longer so soon we have to bow down and realize we cannot live on what we gained through force some hundred years ago.... 

Sorry long post and if I sounds rude