Discussion Forums > The Lounge
Are you bilingual?
AceHigh:
--- Quote from: duskfairy on January 31, 2011, 08:09:41 PM ---just one word: post-colonialism
why do we still have to learn languish like french, german, spanish, I wonder sometimes; well yeah many speak these lang indeed; but hey! the countries with most power in the world today isn't the same as before... thinking about BRIC, ASEAN+3 and so on... so guess it would be more sufficient to learn the kids in school (For those who have that privilege, which i guess the most of us here on baka had cuz we're here, many are billingual etc) languishes such as cantonese, mandarin... etc etc
or what do you say?
--- End quote ---
I say you are assuming that export countries with a lot of poverty stricken rice farmers will ever make their language important. I assume it will not. Everything about China is fake, even it's artificially low (read: fake) currency and it's artificially maintained (read: fake) GDP growth. To make a point: most factories in China produce things that are designed in USA, Europe and Japan, so in the business world the European languages are still more important.
Also remember that South America, Spain and Portugal speaks Spanish and Portugese, so learn one of them and you are covered, North America, Australia and Britain speak English, and in Europe, Scandinavia can speak it too. Europe mainland however is a bit different, since they are stereotypically bad at English, but Germany, Austria and Switzerland speak German, as well as in Hungary and Poland and a few countries around them tend to know German as a second language better than English. Oh and if you learn Russian, you are supposed to understand people in Belarus, Ukraine and to some extent Serbia, Moldova and Bulgaria.
With that most Europe is covered plus the entire American hemisphere as well as Australia and New Zealand.
Here is an even better idea: learn Latin and then it will be easier to learn any languages from the Romanic language group as well as let you draw connection to many words in a Germanic language. (Because in modern Germanic language there are a lot of words that are latin derived).
I guess my point is that the more European languages you learn, the easier it will be to learn the next one.
harpy:
It might be true that even more Chinese people will come here (well they will, their numbers are already increasing, but it not just Chinese people) and they do try to do that all shift from European culture (yes American culture is mostly based on European culture if someone was not informed up till now, well except it native inhabitants that are mostly killed of anyhow) to Asian culture (religion, culture and social groups are making really funny attempts at that as well) BUT there is just no way that we will fully shift from English/French/German/Spanish/Russian to Chinese. If it will truly be needed for an international person (in Europa or most of America, thou I do not really care what Americans do within their borders) it will be after we are dead and most likely after our children are dead.
What sane person would turn from a most used alphabetic system that is proven to be quite good for not only one but most part of the world to hieroglyphs...???
Even French people are working on making their language simpler and they do not use hieroglyphs. Even pronouncing "hieroglyphs" is hard.......
iindigo:
As far as cultural influence goes, the way it usually happens in America is one of two ways:
1) Immigrants learn English and join the mass American workforce and community. If these immigrants have kids, they'll be completely American in the way they act and speak.
2) They move to a little localized area of a big city where everyone speaks their native language and rarely go outside (this is particularly true of New York and Chicago).
It might not be the most politically correct stance to take, but most Americans hold the position of, "If you're coming to the US, you'd better learn English, because we're not learning any new languages to speak to you." Spanish is an obvious exception to this in the south, but other European and Asian languages are a very small minority when it comes to usage.
The downside to this is that many, many US citizens (easily over 60%) cannot speak a second language at all.
AceHigh:
I wouldn't really hold American masses at fault for their views as you have pointed out iindigo.
Demographics is mostly to blame. Basically the same thing is with Chinese masses and Russians. I think the reason why Europeans are easily bi and even trilingual is because of so many different languages and cultures exist in such a small subcontinent. Also with the EU allowing people to freely travel within EU, there are even more people learning several languages.
So it's all about cultural influence and assosiations with ethnic groups that speak different languages. For example how many Americans on this forum have expressed the will to learn Japanese? On other hand why would Americans learn Spanish when it is the "lanugage of illegal Mexican immigrants who are taking our jobs?"
It's all about culture... Other example include people wanting to lear a fantasy language: elvish shortly afte LOTR was shown, or why did the German classes got more students when Rammstein was popular...
So in the end ther is no wonder that most Americans know only one lanugage. They have local entertainment industry, northern neigbour speaks English, southern neighbour should learn English or GTFO and English just happens to be lingua Franca. Americans are just victims of the demographics as there is nothing to motivate them to learn languages.
duskfairy:
--- Quote from: AceHigh on January 31, 2011, 11:26:50 PM ---Demographics is mostly to blame. Basically the same thing is with Chinese masses and Russians. I think the reason why Europeans are easily bi and even trilingual is because of so many different languages and cultures exist in such a small subcontinent. Also with the EU allowing people to freely travel within EU, there are even more people learning several languages.
--- End quote ---
Ehm.... once again; colonialism. It was- and in many extent still is- a really filthy action....you should really learn more about it I suppose before saying things that sounds like a holiday-trip-all-of-it, and not that countless of people died and so on. Europeans occupied and colonized many areas in the world and therefore European languish is still valid there... and the prize for the locals in the different areas weren't cheap. Bear that in mind please.
--- Quote from: iindigo on January 31, 2011, 11:08:00 PM ---As far as cultural influence goes, the way it usually happens in America is one of two ways:
1) Immigrants learn English and join the mass American workforce and community. If these immigrants have kids, they'll be completely American in the way they act and speak.
2) They move to a little localized area of a big city where everyone speaks their native language and rarely go outside (this is particularly true of New York and Chicago).
It might not be the most politically correct stance to take, but most Americans hold the position of, "If you're coming to the US, you'd better learn English, because we're not learning any new languages to speak to you." Spanish is an obvious exception to this in the south, but other European and Asian languages are a very small minority when it comes to usage.
--- End quote ---
And that it's what others might call racism.
And is it fully their own choice to live in the suburbs? Isn't it just another form of township?
--- Quote from: harpy on January 31, 2011, 10:44:10 PM ---It might be true that even more Chinese people will come here (well they will, their numbers are already increasing, but it not just Chinese people) and they do try to do that all shift from European culture /.../ BUT there is just no way that we will fully shift from English/French/German/Spanish/Russian to Chinese. /.../ it will be after we are dead and most likely after our children are dead.
What sane person would turn from a most used alphabetic system that is proven to be quite good for not only one but most part of the world to hieroglyphs...???
--- End quote ---
Chinese and other Asian ppl IS spreading, but what's bad with that? As I already stated beore; that's globalization (that has it's root in colonialism, as the Europens started; so go ahead and blame China for a second wave of colonialism. OFC they all doing it for their own sake, more than often because of money and power. Different is that even if China (for example, Asia is big...) is rapidly growing and earning power (more than US), they don't kill in the same amount as the colnialist did or all the wars in the 1900's for to earn power...
Look at many countries in Africa for example; many chinese living there peacefully - they rather working in and owning whole or parts of company's than trying to forcefully taking their land, their womens and so on brutally like the europeans did... and we in west calling ourselves 'democracy'... hm.
So well; as I wrote before; in the future - and yeah even if it's hundred years from now it's still not to early to start thinking about it, althougt I think it will be faster than 100 years.
--- Quote from: AceHigh on January 31, 2011, 09:20:28 PM ---I say you are assuming that export countries with a lot of poverty stricken rice farmers will ever make their language important. I assume it will not. Everything about China is fake, even it's artificially low (read: fake) currency and it's artificially maintained (read: fake) GDP growth. To make a point: most factories in China produce things that are designed in USA, Europe and Japan, so in the business world the European languages are still more important.
--- End quote ---
Not true.
The strongest economies now is China, Japan, Singapore, India, Brazil, USA...
I'm studying about this at uni, so know what I'm talking about, even if I of course doesn't know everything and ofc can be wrong; but am really sure on that you're wrong here, AceHigh.
And China isn't only "poverty stricken rice farmers" longer- rather the opposite- vibrant urbanity that is growing rapidly and lot's og migration.
Dunno what exactly 'business world' you referring to; but Europe isn't the leading one any longer so soon we have to bow down and realize we cannot live on what we gained through force some hundred years ago....
Sorry long post and if I sounds rude
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