Author Topic: Are you bilingual? (Read 16976 times)

1000mAh · « **Reply #160 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:02:31 PM »

Quote from: Soryon on February 06, 2011, 04:52:48 PM

I don't mind, I am kinda glad actually. It puts me a step above the rest
Honestly tho, its more about where in the US that you live / what school district you went to.

haha, you getthesame education anywhere in Finland. Yhe subhects youmust study; Finnish (9 years), Swedish (3 yesr, 5 years is possible), English (7 years), Math (9 years), Biology (9 years), Geography (9 years), Chemistry (5 years), Physics (5 years), Home-economics (3 years), P.E. (9 years), Crafts (7 years), World History (4 years), Civics (1 year), Religion (9 years) & Arts (9 years). And those arejust the studies you must do

JoonasTo · « **Reply #161 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:07:40 PM »

Quote from: harpy on February 06, 2011, 04:48:56 PM

Quote from: JoonasTo on February 06, 2011, 04:43:50 PM
What I remember from school we had to learn all the states of the world in 7th grade. That's 13 years old. And as I understand we start school two years later than you from the states, so shouldn't every 14 year old be able so show where it is?

we did the same here.
I bet you also had to know the capital and the language they speak. And maybe most popular know things about the country. I remember that remembering all the stuff in Africa was pain in the ass....

Yeah, we did. Africa wasn't as bad as oceania. That was a pain. Middle asia was also annoying, too many "-stan"s. Africa was a breeze due to the C&C Nod campaigns.
We had to learn the states of of U.S.A and Canada too, I think that was a year later or so.

Quote

Getting a bit off topic here but-
You are taught what you need to know to enter the work force and earn a living. Its considered basic education (elementary - high school) Real learning doesn't begin until college in the states.

Heh, here high school is already extra. Only elementary is obligatory.
Though I don't see anything except maybe social studies and some maths that's needed to enter the workforce. Oh, and home ed.
The rest is kind of unnecessary. Who needs physics, chemistry, english or history in work force? No one.
But finnish system is weird compared to most countries anyways.

Quote from: 1000mAh on February 06, 2011, 05:02:31 PM

haha, you getthesame education anywhere in Finland. Yhe subhects youmust study; Finnish (9 years), Swedish (3 yesr, 5 years is possible), English (7 years), Math (9 years), Biology (9 years), Geography (9 years), Chemistry (5 years), Physics (5 years), Home-economics (3 years), P.E. (9 years), Crafts (7 years), World History (4 years), Civics (1 year), Religion (9 years) & Arts (9 years). And those arejust the studies you must do

I only did 3 years of chemistry and physics.
And I'm pretty sure there's 4 years of history and 9 years of crafts.
And you forgot music.
And English can be other languages as well, I know people who did German/French as A1.
It's been a while since I was in primary though.

Soryon · « **Reply #162 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:10:16 PM »

Quote from: 1000mAh on February 06, 2011, 05:02:31 PM

Quote from: Soryon on February 06, 2011, 04:52:48 PM
I don't mind, I am kinda glad actually. It puts me a step above the rest
Honestly tho, its more about where in the US that you live / what school district you went to.

haha, you getthesame education anywhere in Finland. Yhe subhects youmust study; Finnish (9 years), Swedish (3 yesr, 5 years is possible), English (7 years), Math (9 years), Biology (9 years), Geography (9 years), Chemistry (5 years), Physics (5 years), Home-economics (3 years), P.E. (9 years), Crafts (7 years), World History (4 years), Civics (1 year), Religion (9 years) & Arts (9 years). And those arejust the studies you must do

The thing with America is that it is fucking huge compared to other countries. Going to another country in Europe is to us like simply going to another state. That, coupled with the probability that a student will ever have a need to leave the country being slim, leads to different emphasis being placed on certain subjects.
To tie this in with the topic- There is very little need for an American to learn any other language aside from maybe Spanish.

Also, 9 years of religion? wut? Unless the school you attend is a private religious school, you would catch a law suit for trying to teach that in the states. (Unless you mean just the history of different religions from a purely objective point of view)
Another thing, dude, if you are going to try to compare schooling as if yours were superior, at least don't suck so bad in the grammar/spelling department.

harpy · « **Reply #163 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:15:01 PM »

Quote from: JoonasTo on February 06, 2011, 05:07:40 PM

Quote
Getting a bit off topic here but-
You are taught what you need to know to enter the work force and earn a living. Its considered basic education (elementary - high school) Real learning doesn't begin until college in the states.
Heh, here high school is already extra. Only elementary is obligatory.
Though I don't see anything except maybe social studies and some maths that's needed to enter the workforce. Oh, and home ed.
The rest is kind of unnecessary. Who needs physics, chemistry, english or history in work force? No one.
But finnish system is weird compared to most countries anyways.

no the system is quite similar here as well:
0) kindergarten - how ever long parents decide to or 1 year for sure
1) primary school - 9 years
2) hight school - 3 years
2.1)vocational school - 4 years or after hight school 2 years
3) university - 3 years in non professional studies 4-5(I think) years in professional studies + 2 years to get a master degree and a year to get a doctor degree.

Similar?

as for subject in primary school - sounds the same, just that we do not have religion stuff, just art stuff

rathoriel · « **Reply #164 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:15:36 PM »

I am going to start up a new topic on education so this thread doesnt get off track.

JoonasTo · « **Reply #165 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:20:29 PM »

Quote from: Soryon on February 06, 2011, 05:10:16 PM

Quote from: 1000mAh on February 06, 2011, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: Soryon on February 06, 2011, 04:52:48 PM
I don't mind, I am kinda glad actually. It puts me a step above the rest
Honestly tho, its more about where in the US that you live / what school district you went to.

haha, you getthesame education anywhere in Finland. Yhe subhects youmust study; Finnish (9 years), Swedish (3 yesr, 5 years is possible), English (7 years), Math (9 years), Biology (9 years), Geography (9 years), Chemistry (5 years), Physics (5 years), Home-economics (3 years), P.E. (9 years), Crafts (7 years), World History (4 years), Civics (1 year), Religion (9 years) & Arts (9 years). And those arejust the studies you must do
The thing with America is that it is fucking huge compared to other countries. Going to another country in Europe is to us like simply going to another state. That, coupled with the probability that a student will ever have a need to leave the country being slim, leads to different emphasis being placed on certain subjects.
To tie this in with the topic- There is very little need for an American to learn any other language aside from maybe Spanish.

Also, 9 years of religion? wut? Unless the school you attend is a private religious school, you would catch a law suit for trying to teach that in the states. (Unless you mean just the history of different religions from a purely objective point of view)
Another thing, dude, if you are going to try to compare schooling as if yours were superior, at least don't suck so bad in the grammar/spelling department.

It's not about U.S.A being big. It's about it having different states with all their own laws.
Compared to Russia, which is bigger, there's a lot more difference between states.

Yeah, Finnish religion is a tad different from "JESUS OWNS ALL, FUCK EVOLUTION", like some schools still do in the states, which is a point of major luls. Lower grade it's about the ev.lut. itself, upper grade it's about other religions.

Quote from: harpy on February 06, 2011, 05:15:01 PM

Quote from: JoonasTo on February 06, 2011, 05:07:40 PM
Quote
Getting a bit off topic here but-
You are taught what you need to know to enter the work force and earn a living. Its considered basic education (elementary - high school) Real learning doesn't begin until college in the states.
Heh, here high school is already extra. Only elementary is obligatory.
Though I don't see anything except maybe social studies and some maths that's needed to enter the workforce. Oh, and home ed.
The rest is kind of unnecessary. Who needs physics, chemistry, english or history in work force? No one.
But finnish system is weird compared to most countries anyways.

no the system is quite similar here as well:
0) kindergarten - how ever long parents decide to or 1 year for sure
1) primary school - 9 years
2) hight school - 3 years
2.1)vocational school - 4 years or after hight school 2 years
3) university - 3 years in non professional studies 4-5(I think) years in professional studies + 2 years to get a master degree and a year to get a doctor degree.

Similar?

as for subject in primary school - sounds the same, just that we do not have religion stuff, just art stuff

0)preschool - when you're 6 or 5, lasts one year
1)lower grade - next 6 years
2)upper grade - next 3, last obligatory phase, after this you don't have to go anywhere if you don't want to
3)vocational or high school - 3 years vocational, 3-4 high school
4)college or university - College 3 years, uni 3 years bachelor, 5 master's, 8 doctorate. That is, if you stay in the guideline times.

(click to show/hide)

Soryon · « **Reply #166 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:25:26 PM »

I almost posted that exact same pic in my last reply =P

Anyway, on topic- I don't consider myself bilingual even tho I can converse lightly in Spanish and French. However, When I get some free time I do plan to take some more Spanish classes in order to improve upon what I already comprehend. I would like to take classes in other languages, but if I tried I would forget it soon because there is nothing in my life that would require me to use it. Spanish is a language that I encounter almost daily due to my neighbors at work.

Quote from: JoonasTo on February 06, 2011, 05:20:29 PM

Quote from: Soryon on February 06, 2011, 05:10:16 PM
Quote from: 1000mAh on February 06, 2011, 05:02:31 PM
Quote from: Soryon on February 06, 2011, 04:52:48 PM
I don't mind, I am kinda glad actually. It puts me a step above the rest
Honestly tho, its more about where in the US that you live / what school district you went to.

haha, you getthesame education anywhere in Finland. Yhe subhects youmust study; Finnish (9 years), Swedish (3 yesr, 5 years is possible), English (7 years), Math (9 years), Biology (9 years), Geography (9 years), Chemistry (5 years), Physics (5 years), Home-economics (3 years), P.E. (9 years), Crafts (7 years), World History (4 years), Civics (1 year), Religion (9 years) & Arts (9 years). And those arejust the studies you must do
The thing with America is that it is fucking huge compared to other countries. Going to another country in Europe is to us like simply going to another state. That, coupled with the probability that a student will ever have a need to leave the country being slim, leads to different emphasis being placed on certain subjects.
To tie this in with the topic- There is very little need for an American to learn any other language aside from maybe Spanish.

Also, 9 years of religion? wut? Unless the school you attend is a private religious school, you would catch a law suit for trying to teach that in the states. (Unless you mean just the history of different religions from a purely objective point of view)
Another thing, dude, if you are going to try to compare schooling as if yours were superior, at least don't suck so bad in the grammar/spelling department.
It's not about U.S.A being big. It's about it having different states with all their own laws.
Compared to Russia, which is bigger, there's a lot more difference between states.

Yeah, Finnish religion is a tad different from "JESUS OWNS ALL, FUCK EVOLUTION", like some schools still do in the states, which is a point of major luls. Lower grade it's about the ev.lut. itself, upper grade it's about other religions.

I was referring more to the countries East of Russia.
Also, only idiots who go to Catholic schools are taught anything like that, and even so, it is becoming a thing of the past. Not all catholic schools teach that. I had a cousin who went to a Catholic school and she said that religion was taught minimally and while they learned about the bible, they were never told anything about the creationist theory. They were taught the "why" behind some of the beliefs, but never asked to actually beleive them. What I understand from how it was explained to me, during bible study they are taught as if it were a work of fiction. Such as "In this passage Ezekiel says this, what do you think the meaning is?" The same type of question a public school student would have to answer of To Kill A Mockingbird.

AceHigh · « **Reply #167 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:27:54 PM »

Quote from: JoonasTo on February 06, 2011, 04:34:50 PM

And half of Russian is Swedish, like the word Russki itself, which means Swedish. Ironic? Perhaps. Got to do with the swedish sailing the rivers, making trading ports, like novgorod, for example, and the slavs there asking for a king from Sweden to stop their infighting.

Right and wrong.

It is correct that Rurik dynasty is viking, even the name suggests that. It is true that vikings founded the city of Holmgard (Novgorod), it is also true that vikings that were responcible for creating Rus as a country. As the vikings from east coast were going east plundering baltic tribes and going into Rus territory, we can credit the modern Swedes for that.

However it is wrong to assume that there was much lingual impact made by vikings. Sure, russians adopted the weapons and armour styles, currency, took a viking as a ruler, but impacting a completely different language group is difficult. Gramatically the vikings made no significant change to the language. Vocabulary, yes, but writted slavic language derives from Cyril and Methodius church in the modern day Kosovo (and that explains why the shitstorm over there pisses off most slavic countries) and was heavily influenced by the Hellenic alphabet.

On the good side, it was easier for vikings to influence a Germanic lanugage... English, which we caused more impact on, than any Slavic country during our days of rape and pillage empire a thousand years ago.

Quote from: rathoriel on February 06, 2011, 05:15:36 PM

I am going to start up a new topic on education so this thread doesnt get off track.

I would rather like to see a "general lingual thread" where we can discuss relations of languages, history and all that stuff.

JoonasTo · « **Reply #168 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:33:02 PM »

Vocabulary is what I mean. Not grammar. Might have had to be more precise on that.
You'll notice it if you study Russian even a little and know Swedish.

1000mAh · « **Reply #169 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:35:08 PM »

Joonas small miss;
Preschool, primary school, Lower Secondary School, Upper Secondary School or vocational, College or University.

That would be the correct way to translate it into english

and Lower Secondary School would be treated as J-High in the US. Though, Lower Secondary school often has more difficult stuff, but as Soryon said, it depends on the state of the US.
and about the comment you made of my grammar; My grammar is better in English than it is in Finnish; I suck at writing, not my forte.

harpy · « **Reply #170 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:40:56 PM »

Quote from: JoonasTo on February 06, 2011, 05:33:02 PM

Vocabulary is what I mean. Not grammar. Might have had to be more precise on that.
You'll notice it if you study Russian even a little and know Swedish.

You mean if I know Russian it would be easer for me to learn Swedish then any other Nordic languages?

-side note-
I think Spanish would be a superb language to curse in. I can curse quite well in Russian (I heard that it is one of the best languages to curse in), now I need a new language to curse in..... cavron...sounds just so nice....
-end of side note-

JoonasTo · « **Reply #171 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:42:37 PM »

No I meant that you'll start seeing familiar words if you study Russian and know Swedish beforehand. Probably goes for other northern germanic languages as well.

Quote from: 1000mAh on February 06, 2011, 05:35:08 PM

Joonas small miss;
Preschool, primary school, Lower Secondary School, Upper Secondary School or vocational, College or University.

That would be the correct way to translate it into english

and Lower Secondary School would be treated as J-High in the US. Though, Lower Secondary school often has more difficult stuff, but as Soryon said, it depends on the state of the US.
and about the comment you made of my grammar; My grammar is better in English than it is in Finnish; I suck at writing, not my forte.

No, no and no.
Were not trying to change it into the US system. It was a translation from the Finnish terms.

Huh, I made a point at your grammar? I don't even remember that.

1000mAh · « **Reply #172 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:47:02 PM »

sorry forgot to put soryon on front of the grammar thing

but yeah, you did dirrect translation I did the correct translation.
...and I didn't change it into the US system, I just compared them.

AceHigh · « **Reply #173 on:** February 06, 2011, 05:54:21 PM »

Quote from: JoonasTo on February 06, 2011, 05:33:02 PM

Vocabulary is what I mean. Not grammar. Might have had to be more precise on that.
You'll notice it if you study Russian even a little and know Swedish.

Do you know what bugs me, that old Norse language had inflectional cases before it abandoned it in favor of analytic construction. Russian language has 6, Latin has 5, German language has still 4 and for example Finnish has 4 grammatical ones, but add locative and marginal cases that puts it up to total of 16 cases.

Icelandic language which I also call "true Norwegian" one, has retained 4 cases from Norse one.

So the grammar of the old Scandinavian languages was closer to the slavic ones, than it is now.

Getting too nerdy here, good thing my girlfriend isn't in this thread, she knows 5 languages and is a total grammar nerd.

Quote from: harpy on February 06, 2011, 05:40:56 PM

You mean if I know Russian it would be easer for me to learn Swedish then any other Nordic languages?

Not really, knowing German or English would help you vocabulary more. Knowing both would making Scandinavian languages an easy learn.

JoonasTo · « **Reply #174 on:** February 06, 2011, 06:45:41 PM »

Heheh, I would never have thought someone would want more complex language. Eveyone tends to whine that there's too much complexity in grammar.

I know I complain about English a lot because I can't express half of the things I want to. Finnish has a lot of stuff that is imposible to convey in written English and a lot of words that simply don't translate.

AceHigh · « **Reply #175 on:** February 06, 2011, 07:05:47 PM »

Exactly, a more complex language is a richer language.

Having insights into several languages just shows that English is not practical as Lingua Franca grammatically (exceptions, etc...), nor is it a language that gives you an opportunity to express yourself as freely as many more complex languages out there. However what is lingua franca is decided by history, never by linguists.

Soryon · « **Reply #176 on:** February 06, 2011, 07:08:58 PM »

Quote from: AceHigh on February 06, 2011, 07:05:47 PM

nor is it a language that gives you an opportunity to express yourself as freely as many more complex languages out there.

Expound, pls.

Fool010 · « **Reply #177 on:** February 07, 2011, 12:22:48 AM »

Quote from: AceHigh on February 06, 2011, 07:05:47 PM

Exactly, a more complex language is a richer language.

Having insights into several languages just shows that English is not practical as Lingua Franca grammatically (exceptions, etc...), nor is it a language that gives you an opportunity to express yourself as freely as many more complex languages out there. However what is lingua franca is decided by history, never by linguists.

Your knowledge of english is more limited than you want to admit, or are you just trolling again ?

What ultimately limits your ability to express yourself in any language is your mastery of said language and your ability to adapt your thought pattern to the mechanism of said language. English is rather straight to the point, and discards quite a lot of so-called subtleties for the sake of efficiency. In that sense it is better suited as common language than something more complex.

The more complex the language, the harder efficient communication gets. English may not be as stylish as other languages, but what you're doing here is nothing more but taking easy shots at english-american culture, as usual.

AceHigh · « **Reply #178 on:** February 07, 2011, 02:36:09 AM »

Quote

What ultimately limits your ability to express yourself in any language is your mastery of said language and your ability to adapt your thought pattern to the mechanism of said language. English is rather straight to the point, and discards quite a lot of so-called subtleties for the sake of efficiency. In that sense it is better suited as common language than something more complex.

The more complex the language, the harder efficient communication gets. English may not be as stylish as other languages, but what you're doing here is nothing more but taking easy shots at english-american culture, as usual.

First of all the English language has more subtleties than you make it out to be. Did you know that the word "you" is a plural form of the word "thou" and the latter one is not used in modern english because of the "politeness" factor in Britain in the past centuries. Another example of an unnessessary subtlety is an overused continuous present tense. Where more efficient simple present tense sounds natural in other languages (hell, doesn't even exist in Norwegian, now that is efficiency!) and as an example I would say "I post in a forum", in English it is more correct to say "I am posting in a forum". That is stylish, not efficient.

So we have determined that your claim on subtlety is rather moot. What about efficiency? You claim that English language is efficient because it has no flexing and other "fancy stuff" as you stated?
Ok here is an example: "I am the emperor" in latin will be "Caesar me". How the hell can 4 words be more efficient than 2 flexed words?

Languages that flex can ditch "am/are/is" as well. Efficiently I should be able to ditch that, but it is not grammatically correct in English language.

You know I had to chuckle when you suggested that I had limited knowledge of English, but what you revealed is that even though you most likely have an excellent knowledge of English yourself, you have limited knowledge of other languages, so you have little reference for your claims of how efficient English is compared to other languages.

Oh and just to clarify, I was not taking an easy shot at American culture... heh, watch and learn how it will look like when I do take a jab at Americans and start trolling:

Quote

but what you're doing here is nothing more but taking easy shots at english-~~american~~ culture, as usual.

Corrected for accuracy. English language is English as Americans did not provide any significant change to the language and just use it because they don't have their own. That by itself is one of many arguments why a thing called "American culture" is almost non-existent with the exception of junk food and fat people.

Next time it should be easier for you to see when I am trolling.

Burkingam · « **Reply #179 on:** February 07, 2011, 03:08:04 AM »

Well, the main reason why English is good as an universal language is that there are people speaking it everywhere in the world. But since Anglophone culture is so spread, there will always be people saying it's an "Anti-culture". It's the same phenomenon than when someone complain about "Mainstream" just for the sake of complaining.
I don't think complexity is an advantage in itself. The perfect spoken language is as simple as possible without sacrificing effectiveness and meaning, but not simpler. Now I don't think that's English but I don't see what language is like that anyway.

Quote from: AceHigh on February 07, 2011, 02:36:09 AM

Corrected for accuracy. English language is English as Americans did not provide any significant change to the language and just use it because they don't have their own. That by itself is one of many arguments why a thing called "American culture" is almost non-existent with the exception of junk food and fat people.

Btw saying that American culture is only junkfood and fat people is not only trolling, this is pure bull shit. How are we supposed to take you seriously after you say something so stupid. I will take that as a proof that you don't know what you are talking about. Seriously where do you think you are right now? Here's a clue the Internet. Think of where 90% of it's content comes from.