Author Topic: Riots in Egypt  (Read 6961 times)

Offline Fool010

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #40 on: January 29, 2011, 11:30:28 AM »
Bribe the government while backstabbing it at the same time.

Though, 75 millions for political opposition against 1.3 billion military assistance is poking with toothpicks at best.
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Online AceHigh

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #41 on: January 29, 2011, 11:42:01 AM »
Military hardware is expencive. Politically those 75 million did a better job than the military hardware that isn't even used aginst people.

Basically if this revolution is successful, the new government will start out with good military.
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Offline xfreidax

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #42 on: January 29, 2011, 11:45:29 AM »
Or you end up with an Iran part II, armed to the teeth.  :o

Offline lx4

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #43 on: January 29, 2011, 11:48:08 AM »
75 million is nothing to scoff at, that's about the combined budget of all Swedish political parties.

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Offline jaybug

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #44 on: January 29, 2011, 12:18:19 PM »
And like Iran, it's easy to turn American military hardware into junk, by not delivering spare parts. For want of a nail, the kingdom was lost.
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Offline xfreidax

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #45 on: January 29, 2011, 12:30:31 PM »
Very true lol. Though if it ever comes to that, it's a lot of money gone down the drain.

Edit: Here's an analysis piece from AP, on US options in Egypt. It points out one very important thing. Despite the millions US spent trying to build up an opposition, the protesters are largely hostile towards America. They never felt the effects of that 75 million. But what they have been feeling is the oppression from the secret police for decades, a security apparatus built partly with American assistance and armed with American weapons.

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5gdOX2XSHsVK49pGBdB7GBhhYMNVg?docId=425bb4f248ac496b8ff325d992a1940c

Can't be seen as supporting Mubarak coz if the mob win, they'll turn on you.

Can't be seen as supporting the mob coz if Mubarak survives, you alienate him.

Sit on the fence too long and the Machiavellian nature of your foreign policy becomes painfully obvious.

Lose lose situation no matter how you cut it?
« Last Edit: January 29, 2011, 02:23:08 PM by xfreidax »

Offline Pharismo

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #46 on: January 29, 2011, 03:08:10 PM »
“There is only one god, and his name is Death. And there is only one thing we say to Death: ‘Not today’.”

Offline vuzedome

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #47 on: January 30, 2011, 03:58:21 AM »
while on china
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/asia-pacific/2011/01/201112991712140318.html
Well you wouldn't want anything like that in China.
As they say, when a billion Chinese jump......
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Offline lx4

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #48 on: January 30, 2011, 06:22:10 AM »
... you run them over with tanks?

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Online AceHigh

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #49 on: January 30, 2011, 12:48:08 PM »
Good one  ;D
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #50 on: January 31, 2011, 05:17:43 AM »
run over them with tanks, or take our submarine hunting planes to take out their fighter jets.

I wish America would stop trying to calm other countries down by supporting crap leaders. So what if those countries don't like us. It isn't as if we speak their language anyway, comprende? No es mi trabajo.

I hope Egypt can get rid of Mubarek. I only hope they are happy with what they get.

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Offline xfreidax

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #51 on: January 31, 2011, 07:59:26 AM »
At least it's their own choice. Sink or swim, no regrets.

Online AceHigh

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #52 on: January 31, 2011, 08:57:34 PM »
The Egyptian military made it's choice. They support the demands of the people and have officially expressed that.

An interresting situation came out of that, the people trust the military and cheer for them, while do not trust the police force. Tommorrow a huge demonstration is in place and the military guarantees safety for the people, so if police force becomes too brutal, it will be interesting to see if the military slaps them with some serious firepower.

In any way the military is acting very honourably as the only thing they hinder, is the looting and vandalism, otherwise they do not obstruct civilians in any way.
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Offline newy

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #53 on: January 31, 2011, 09:05:30 PM »
Has there been any police present at all except for the Friday protests? With that declaration I only see clashes between the army and the personal guards of Mubarak.

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Online AceHigh

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #54 on: January 31, 2011, 09:22:02 PM »
Hmm... indeed I wonder if "Mubaraks personal guards" and "riot police" is just a synonymous terms for the same unit...
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Offline TMRNetShark

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #55 on: January 31, 2011, 09:57:49 PM »
And like Iran, it's easy to turn American military hardware into junk, by not delivering spare parts. For want of a nail, the kingdom was lost.

That's why communism in the USSR failed. The US made guns that you needed to constantly maintain... if left unchecked, wouldn't work. When the AK-47 came out back in 1947, those were indestructible guns... I bet the first couple of shipments are still in use even today. :D

Offline jaybug

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #56 on: February 01, 2011, 12:46:01 AM »
I rather doubt that. I'm sure the barrels are too far worn. It might still shoot, but the muzzle velocity and accuracy would be anything but to die for. But I bet there are a few around, and very valuable collector's items. Ask the New Jersey Nets owner, I bet he has a few of them.

Nice to see Egyptian army not slaughtering their own. I guess it is a drawback to conscription, eh? You have a popular uprising, your army will not back you, as they are not of your kind.
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Online AceHigh

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #57 on: February 01, 2011, 01:26:15 AM »
Nice to see Egyptian army not slaughtering their own. I guess it is a drawback to conscription, eh? You have a popular uprising, your army will not back you, as they are not of your kind.

First of all, how is that a drawback? An army exists solely for one purpose: to protect the people from an external threat. That means it should not get involved in the internal issues and they are not to serve the government, but the nation as a whole.

Also, how is a professional army any different? As an example in US most grunts come from poor to middle class families, why would they support a social elite any more than conscripts? You just don't make any sense here.

Egyptian army is acting exemplary as any official military of any nation should act.
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Offline jaybug

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #58 on: February 01, 2011, 04:10:38 AM »
Many armies around the world exist to enforce the will of the government, not the governed. Why do many African nations come to mind when I say that? It's a drawback to have a conscripted army when you want to crush the rebellion!

The key word is most. Don't forget that to some Democrats, the path to power lies in having served in the military honorably. Joe Biden's kid is in, so is Sarah Palin's.

Professional armies are composed of people who wanted to be there, not had to be there. But it's hard to say what would happen should we do that here, as it's against the posse commitatus act. US cannot have armed forces inside the border, kind of thing. The why we don't have the army along the US/Mexican border, even with a GOP president. It's why the French Foreign Legion is good, and the French army is known as a bunch of surrender monkeys.

Humans being humane, what a concept! Nothing like Rwanda, eh?

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Online AceHigh

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Re: Riots in Egypt
« Reply #59 on: February 01, 2011, 10:26:59 AM »
I will agree with you that around the world there is a different mentality whom the army serves. In Europe thare have been historical clashes between armiy and civilians so in present time in most  European countries the military is very neutral to politics and have to keep a clean profile in order to be popular with he people.

From what you say it is very fortunate that USA keeps the same principle with it's army. I can think of one thing that an army can be used for inside the country and it is an assistance to a natural disaster.

Besides, when I think about it, when I was in army, we were trained to be loyal to the people and foremost the king, never politicians.

However as you say armies in African countries do not mind slaughtering their own families for some warlord. Then again the savagery that has been going on in the civil wars in Africa only shows that more often than not, their "military" is composed of gangs with guns without any morals or discipline.
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?