Author Topic: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released  (Read 3275 times)

Online mgz

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #20 on: February 14, 2011, 10:49:50 AM »
Also, they made a game for both pc and console? Great, another pc game that will be a poor console port. Mediocre game just went even more crap...
Actually, I believe that, here, for a change, the console versions are ports of the PC version. I could be wrong though.
this is what i had heard also however that doesnt mean the PC version isnt designed with this in mind

Offline indifference

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2011, 07:17:17 PM »
I seem to remember the FBI getting involved when Half-Life 2 was leaked.

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Offline AceHigh

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #22 on: February 15, 2011, 12:17:38 AM »
FBI?

Ok, people, just to clarify, Crytek is a German company with it's headquarters in Frankfurt, with subsidiaries in UK, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Hungary and S.Korea. There won't be any FBI or US based lobbying, if anything it will be Kriminalpolizei.

Speaking of that, being based in Germany makes the game even more crap, due to German censorship. Many people are familiar with US censor  mentality: where violence and gore is ok, but if you get a glimpse of a nipple, then there is a congressional hearing. Well, imagine that German censor mentality is exactly the opposite and thus makes some draconian guidelines for violence and gore censoring. Ever wonder why in Crysis your bullets interacted with everything at such a level, that you could actually chop down the trees, but as soon as enemy was dead, his body became "ethereal" and you could not interact with it in any way? Thanks to the German censorship laws, messing around with a corpse in a computer game is illegal.

So we get a highly detailed graphics engine with realistic physics, but corpses will be less realistic than corpses from FPS made in the nineties.

EDIT:
Ok, nevermind guys, it slipped my mind that Crytek is whoring themselves out to EA. EA being the nazi they are will probably use all their lobby power persecute people in US.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 03:05:47 AM by AceHigh »
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline sdedalus83

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #23 on: February 15, 2011, 03:48:09 AM »
Ace - see that's one nice thing about PC gaming in the US - no government censorship.  Valve isn't going to allow pornographic games anytime soon, but games like the witcher and amnesia, which would get AO ratings from the ESRB, can forgo the rating process and still enjoy widespread distribution through Steam.

Offline newy

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #24 on: February 15, 2011, 03:51:05 AM »
PC gaming in the US - no government censorship

Not yet. Governator is working on it and other states are waiting for him to win.

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Offline Khundes

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #25 on: February 15, 2011, 03:58:10 AM »
Hurray for Canada only imposing bilingual instruction booklets in comparison!

Though I personally think this leak is awful, and you can be sure that if Crysis 2 doesn't do so hot, especially the PC version, it'll become another thing on the pile of reasons not to develop for PC. It might even affect the possibility of Crysis 3 or even some jobs at Crytek(The leaker's already screwed and I don't feel sorry for him though.)

I strongly urge fans of the game, or people who would want to play it, to buy themselves a copy and do us all a favor in the long run. I myself still need to get Crysis 1, I only recently got a true gaming-capable PC and I lack the time to truly use it these days. But if I like it, I'll buy Crysis 2 for sure.

Offline sdedalus83

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #26 on: February 15, 2011, 04:18:48 AM »
PC gaming in the US - no government censorship

Not yet. Governator is working on it and other states are waiting for him to win.

The likelihood of California winning is slim to none.  That case is about to be heard by the Supreme Court, a decidedly more conservative(in terms of adhering to precedent) panel than the lesser courts.  With about 10 instances of similar bills being declared unconstitutional by the District Courts and not appealed, the censorship lobbyists seem to have walked into a bear trap.  They'll probably escape with a rejection based on some ancillary aspect of the bill since the Court will likely avoid any decision which would call into question established federal censorship.

Offline fohfoh

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #27 on: February 15, 2011, 06:20:10 AM »
IMO computer gaming is going to recede then explode in the future. (1-3 years).

Steam has a lot of momentum going for them. The issue with computer gaming is the cost requirement and fashionability. With people running around wanting laptops and stuff, looks are huge, space is huge etc. Performance quality sits backseat. Yes, there's computer gamers, but morons en masse are more profitable.

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Casual gamers are a slight "issue". Hook them with casual gaming first, then lead them to hardcore gaming.
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Offline AceHigh

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #28 on: February 15, 2011, 06:57:18 AM »
Ace - see that's one nice thing about PC gaming in the US - no government censorship.  Valve isn't going to allow pornographic games anytime soon, but games like the witcher and amnesia, which would get AO ratings from the ESRB, can forgo the rating process and still enjoy widespread distribution through Steam.

No government censorship, yet even the games like you mentioned (The Witcher) get a censored version in US. Probably done by the companies themselves because they knew that fundamentalist USA would get hysterical over a few pictures of tits. Running with Scissors are still harassed by the supreme court over making Postal games. True, USA doesn't have a government censorship, because there are many other ways to make life to a living hell in US if you make a game that Christians don't like.

Indeed if you want to make a game without any pressure, do it in Eastern block countries or Russia. The government there couldn't care less about video games, they are too busy stealing tax payer's money.
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline sdedalus83

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #29 on: February 15, 2011, 07:01:40 AM »
Ace - see that's one nice thing about PC gaming in the US - no government censorship.  Valve isn't going to allow pornographic games anytime soon, but games like the witcher and amnesia, which would get AO ratings from the ESRB, can forgo the rating process and still enjoy widespread distribution through Steam.

No government censorship, yet even the games like you mentioned (The Witcher) get a censored version in US. Probably done by the companies themselves because they knew that fundamentalist USA would get hysterical over a few pictures of tits. Running with Scissors are still harassed by the supreme court over making Postal games. True, USA doesn't have a government censorship, because there are many other ways to make life to a living hell in US if you make a game that Christians don't like.

As long as it doesn't get released on a console, it doesn't seem like the Christians are smart enough to realize that it's still a game.

Offline AceHigh

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2011, 07:48:56 AM »
Since we are on that path, here is some entertainment from Fox News:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKzF173GqTU

 ;D
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Online mgz

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2011, 11:14:24 AM »
pc gaming will explode when hologram based gaming is introduced and consoles are way to shitty to deal with the processing power required

Offline AceHigh

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2011, 11:36:27 AM »
You don't think that a new gen consoles can be made?
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline Guru Zeb

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2011, 02:06:51 PM »
pc gaming will explode when hologram based gaming is introduced and consoles are way to shitty to deal with the processing power required


You assume that hologram technology (which is a very different thing from the 3D glasses, faux 3D of today) is going to advance enough over a few years to be viable.  :o
Then you presume that when this happens, (which will be a lot longer than you seem to suggest) the new processors that make it possible cannot be built into newer generations of consoles (which is how the current gen of consoles have have been produced)  ::)

IMHO
No form of consumer level affordable, genuine hologram technology will be available for at least 10 years. The technical reality and cost of implementation is just that big. The glasses generated stereoscopics will get better, but thats not a HOLOGRAM.
Consoles will continue to grow closer and closer to ultra high lvl PC performance (at least in terms of graphics, speed and sound) , especially as the 'integrated entertainment suite' concept starts to take off.

----------------------------------------------------

Though I personally think this leak is awful, and you can be sure that if Crysis 2 doesn't do so hot, especially the PC version, it'll become another thing on the pile of reasons not to develop for PC. It might even affect the possibility of Crysis 3 or even some jobs at Crytek(The leaker's already screwed and I don't feel sorry for him though.)

Leak is awful for Crysis ........ hmmmm well i can guarantee they would have (probably) preferred it not to happen. But lets get real.
This is not so bad for Crytek because:-
1:
The leak will/has massively accelerated the viral hype train around Crysis II, garnering HUGE amounts of free publicity in media areas that Crytek would have had no way of influencing via conventional channels. One of the reasons many observers have speculated that this 'leak' maybe just be a clever publicity stunt.
As this has happened over month prior to release day Crytek have plenty of time to alter the authentication master key for launch.
2:
A leaked early beta ( i have played it, its very un-finished ) is not going to harm sales as the leak is not a even close to a fully featured final game. Look at it more as a freaky expanded alpha demo. Sales of Crysis II will be HUGE no doubt about that.
3:
Don't see how a leak impacts on choice of dev platform, a leak is a leak separate from platform considerations, would you expect Crytek to drop Xbox if a leak of that beta occurred? No of course not as the focus after a leak is internal security, asset management/security, and staff asset access, protocol compliance and staff vetting. Plenty of piracy on consoles too, especially now that PS3 has been cracked wide open.
4:
As yet there is still no news on exactly how the leak occurred, but i'd cool the righteous indignation as it could easily have been an accident....... or deliberate publicity stunt if your in the conspiracy theory camp.

Quote
I strongly urge fans of the game, or people who would want to play it, to buy themselves a copy and do us all a favor in the long run. I myself still need to get Crysis 1, I only recently got a true gaming-capable PC and I lack the time to truly use it these days. But if I like it, I'll buy Crysis 2 for sure.

hmmmmm from what i have seen ( only played leak a little just for a look see ) the game has been cut down a little, suit controls have been streamlined, fewer suit modes, new visor mode, and IIRC going prone is gone now. Many of these differences could be aspects of the leak build not indicative of the final game ....... check the official demo.



EDIT newy: Don't doublepost. Use the Modify button...
« Last Edit: February 15, 2011, 06:21:05 PM by newy »
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Online mgz

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #34 on: February 15, 2011, 10:12:43 PM »
pc gaming will explode when hologram based gaming is introduced and consoles are way to shitty to deal with the processing power required


You assume that hologram technology (which is a very different thing from the 3D glasses, faux 3D of today) is going to advance enough over a few years to be viable.  :o
Then you presume that when this happens, (which will be a lot longer than you seem to suggest) the new processors that make it possible cannot be built into newer generations of consoles (which is how the current gen of consoles have have been produced)  ::)

IMHO
No form of consumer level affordable, genuine hologram technology will be available for at least 10 years. The technical reality and cost of implementation is just that big. The glasses generated stereoscopics will get better, but thats not a HOLOGRAM.
Consoles will continue to grow closer and closer to ultra high lvl PC performance (at least in terms of graphics, speed and sound) , especially as the 'integrated entertainment suite' concept starts to take off.

----------------------------------------------------

Though I personally think this leak is awful, and you can be sure that if Crysis 2 doesn't do so hot, especially the PC version, it'll become another thing on the pile of reasons not to develop for PC. It might even affect the possibility of Crysis 3 or even some jobs at Crytek(The leaker's already screwed and I don't feel sorry for him though.)

Leak is awful for Crysis ........ hmmmm well i can guarantee they would have (probably) preferred it not to happen. But lets get real.
This is not so bad for Crytek because:-
1:
The leak will/has massively accelerated the viral hype train around Crysis II, garnering HUGE amounts of free publicity in media areas that Crytek would have had no way of influencing via conventional channels. One of the reasons many observers have speculated that this 'leak' maybe just be a clever publicity stunt.
As this has happened over month prior to release day Crytek have plenty of time to alter the authentication master key for launch.
2:
A leaked early beta ( i have played it, its very un-finished ) is not going to harm sales as the leak is not a even close to a fully featured final game. Look at it more as a freaky expanded alpha demo. Sales of Crysis II will be HUGE no doubt about that.
3:
Don't see how a leak impacts on choice of dev platform, a leak is a leak separate from platform considerations, would you expect Crytek to drop Xbox if a leak of that beta occurred? No of course not as the focus after a leak is internal security, asset management/security, and staff asset access, protocol compliance and staff vetting. Plenty of piracy on consoles too, especially now that PS3 has been cracked wide open.
4:
As yet there is still no news on exactly how the leak occurred, but i'd cool the righteous indignation as it could easily have been an accident....... or deliberate publicity stunt if your in the conspiracy theory camp.

Quote
I strongly urge fans of the game, or people who would want to play it, to buy themselves a copy and do us all a favor in the long run. I myself still need to get Crysis 1, I only recently got a true gaming-capable PC and I lack the time to truly use it these days. But if I like it, I'll buy Crysis 2 for sure.

hmmmmm from what i have seen ( only played leak a little just for a look see ) the game has been cut down a little, suit controls have been streamlined, fewer suit modes, new visor mode, and IIRC going prone is gone now. Many of these differences could be aspects of the leak build not indicative of the final game ....... check the official demo.



EDIT newy: Don't doublepost. Use the Modify button...
your assumptions of holographic tech are just that. With as poorly received as 3d tech is dont be surprised if in the next 10 years you start to see holographic tech on the consumer market. I wouldnt be shocked to see holographic things in functional format for people to use in like 15 years where its either part of the video cards or like the physx cards were when they first came out a couple hundred bucks extra for a holo card

Offline Khundes

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2011, 02:44:54 AM »
Leak is awful for Crysis ........ hmmmm well i can guarantee they would have (probably) preferred it not to happen. But lets get real.
This is not so bad for Crytek because:-
1:
The leak will/has massively accelerated the viral hype train around Crysis II, garnering HUGE amounts of free publicity in media areas that Crytek would have had no way of influencing via conventional channels. One of the reasons many observers have speculated that this 'leak' maybe just be a clever publicity stunt.
As this has happened over month prior to release day Crytek have plenty of time to alter the authentication master key for launch.

People claiming it's a clever publicity stunt are just looking to justify their piracy. Here's a hard truth: They're wrong and they're in denial to make themselves look like not so bad people.

Quote
2:
A leaked early beta ( i have played it, its very un-finished ) is not going to harm sales as the leak is not a even close to a fully featured final game. Look at it more as a freaky expanded alpha demo. Sales of Crysis II will be HUGE no doubt about that.

The last month of "development" is hardly that. Gold Master is when the game gets shipped off to factories so it gets boxed. No real room for improvement there. They were likely near the end of beta testing, though who knows how recent the leaked beta actually was.

Plus, having been a tester myself, I can assure you a game can look very unfinished until a few days before it's shipped, when they finally dump you a build with everything patched up. At that point though, features are already all implemented. Nothing new gets added in that phase ever. Stuff does get cut out though.

Quote
3:
Don't see how a leak impacts on choice of dev platform, a leak is a leak separate from platform considerations, would you expect Crytek to drop Xbox if a leak of that beta occurred? No of course not as the focus after a leak is internal security, asset management/security, and staff asset access, protocol compliance and staff vetting. Plenty of piracy on consoles too, especially now that PS3 has been cracked wide open.

It's all about profitability. If the PC version sells poorly, guess who's the scapegoat? The game's quality? The substandard graphics? Of course not, it'll be the pirates. And the industry is very good with such limited views.

Also there's a core difference with a game being leaked BEFORE release, and a game being cracked after having been on the market for a while.

And about the PS3, trust has been lost over that issue. More to the point: The DS lost the GBA slot in favor of a camera. Is it because people genuinely wanted a poor resolution camera on their portable console more then a slot that allows even more games to be played? Or is it because that GBA slot enabled a lot of DS piracy? This isn't even hard to see. There was nerd rage over that lost slot, pirates shunned the DSi and no one really said anything good about the camera.

So of course such cases of piracy matter. Especially with the PC, generally seen as the most pirated platform. Note that this leak does not help the PC in any way.

Quote
4:
As yet there is still no news on exactly how the leak occurred, but i'd cool the righteous indignation as it could easily have been an accident....... or deliberate publicity stunt if your in the conspiracy theory camp.

Have you ever SEEN the inner workings of a game studio? The strict confidentiality? Here's a sample:
-No portable memory device allowed, including anything that can be refurbished into a memory device(That means even a regular DS is not allowed in).
-No camera or other recording device allowed inside at any time.
-For a studio of 1000 (Ubisoft Montreal in this case), there is ONE internet-capable computer and it is HEAVILY monitored.

Under such circumstances, how do you explain "whoops I leaked the game?" And your conspiracy theory does not serve any cause, it's self-righteous justification for piracy. Especially if you still believe that it will not harm sales, because it will.

"I could have the whole thing for 70$ and a trip to the game store or a good playable chunk of it for free and a few mouse clicks"

It's just how things are, and it's the same problem with the american anime industry.

Quote
hmmmmm from what i have seen ( only played leak a little just for a look see ) the game has been cut down a little, suit controls have been streamlined, fewer suit modes, new visor mode, and IIRC going prone is gone now. Many of these differences could be aspects of the leak build not indicative of the final game ....... check the official demo.

Your point?

Offline Guru Zeb

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2011, 09:01:03 PM »
People claiming it's a clever publicity stunt are just looking to justify their piracy. Here's a hard truth: They're wrong and they're in denial to make themselves look like not so bad people.


No people claiming its a publicity stunt are just being typical, modern, media jaundiced, conspiracy promoters. I think you over emphasize some kind of moral decision, that only you see. No one has to justify anything .... though i'd be interested to hear you make some kind of defence of your implicit piracy of Japanese media content without sounding like a monstrous hypocrite. Hows ripping of Japanese media ok, but ripping off German media (from an industry several times the size of the Anime industry) is a crime against humanity.
Maybe you don't keep yourself informed but quite a few blogs and even a couple of game sites have commented on how the leak could be a publicity stunt, not an idea i subscribe to personally.
But idea is way more widespread than just those who have downloaded the game ...... i would have though someone with your sharp perceptions and industry contacts you must have would have known this.

Notice you only tackle the part of my argument that can be refuted by nothing more than opinionated hyperbole, and self righteous moral indignation.
No comment on how this will not kick the hype-train into global overdrive, resulting in more sales.
Or that Crytek have time to alter the Auth master key ......... still if built a house of straw i'd be careful what i sneezed on.

Quote
The last month of "development" is hardly that. Gold Master is when the game gets shipped off to factories so it gets boxed. No real room for improvement there. They were likely near the end of beta testing, though who knows how recent the leaked beta actually was.

Plus, having been a tester myself, I can assure you a game can look very unfinished until a few days before it's shipped, when they finally dump you a build with everything patched up. At that point though, features are already all implemented. Nothing new gets added in that phase ever. Stuff does get cut out though.


Considering you haven't seen the leaked beta ( but i have ), you seem to be making a lot of assumption and statements based on a gaping hole where some actual knowledge ought to be.
Here are some genuine facts for you:
1: The beta (am still not sure it should even be called a beta but whatever ) is from an early January build.
2: The beta is missing all manor of things, textures, sounds, objects, script elements. Large parts of the  options menus don't work at all. Level transport is not fully implemented, etc ........

What i've seen is nothing like even close to a fully featured demo let alone a gold master. its main feature for downloaders seems to be the fact that it actually runs and there isn't an official demo yet.

Tester .... what an employed internal tester or one of the kiddy goons the publishers insist you roll into the studio to make gee wow noises on a saturday.
I ask as i have been employed by 2 games companies and done freelance work for 3 others as modeller/Animator.  :P

But i see no relevance in your remark as what a studio can do in a few days to finalise a game is irrelevant to the fact that the beta is not going to get any further studio dev now its public. The beta is what it is and will stay what it is a very unpolished and flawed early beta copy missing lots of finalised features and content.


Quote
It's all about profitability. If the PC version sells poorly, guess who's the scapegoat? The game's quality? The substandard graphics? Of course not, it'll be the pirates. And the industry is very good with such limited views.

Also there's a core difference with a game being leaked BEFORE release, and a game being cracked after having been on the market for a while.

And about the PS3, trust has been lost over that issue. More to the point: The DS lost the GBA slot in favor of a camera. Is it because people genuinely wanted a poor resolution camera on their portable console more then a slot that allows even more games to be played? Or is it because that GBA slot enabled a lot of DS piracy? This isn't even hard to see. There was nerd rage over that lost slot, pirates shunned the DSi and no one really said anything good about the camera.

So of course such cases of piracy matter. Especially with the PC, generally seen as the most pirated platform. Note that this leak does not help the PC in any way.


Once again you fly of on another 'outraged from cyberspace' rant, whilst ignoring the 10,000Ibs Gorilla in the room.
The simple fact that the chance of Crysis NOT selling well is pretty much non existent. Am willing to take any bet you want on the sales of Crysis making at least top 5 sales more likely top 3 very possibly #1 ...... even if its just a 0 sum bet for forum face. Seriously your not trying to tell me Crysis will sell badly due to the leak of a seriously compromised old beta ....... lol.
I guarantee exactly the opposite will happen. Am happy to take the bet, I'll even take the bet on 1st week sales figures
...... if your happy to acknowledge your assertion and stand behind it.

Explain to me how an illegal release of a highly unfinished beta which is not even at true demo stage, is worst than the inevitable cracking of the final commercial product. GCS freely released beta and alpha versions of S.T.A.L.K.E.R whilst it was in dev and it didn't harm their sales or stop STALKER achieving cult game status.
The 'it will harm sales' argument is incredibly crass and specious as the beta is soooo unfinished that no one who intended to buy the game would be happy with the beta, its not even demo version polished  ::)
If you'd seen it maybe you would realized that.
Console games get leaked early all the time and still sell millions of units on official release.

Exactly what point are you trying to make with the DS potted history (this is not a wiki page you know m8) I don't see how the comment in any way supports any point you may want yo make, as no one is going to invade your house and alter the hardware on your PC. If your point was in some cases piracy matters ........... all i can say is 'No shit Sherlock'.
But it matters most where companies overcharge and exploit gamers, and its pretty much defined by a companies response to piracy. The mature response 'its a fact of content development, but in reality it has little affect on sales, minimise it and move on' or the greedy corporate attitude 'any use of our content should and will be paid for, and we'll take any steps to make that happen'.

I'll agree it doesn't do the PC any favours ........ but it doesn't do it anywhere near as much real harm as you seem to imagine either.


Quote
Have you ever SEEN the inner workings of a game studio? The strict confidentiality? Here's a sample:
-No portable memory device allowed, including anything that can be refurbished into a memory device(That means even a regular DS is not allowed in).
-No camera or other recording device allowed inside at any time.
-For a studio of 1000 (Ubisoft Montreal in this case), there is ONE internet-capable computer and it is HEAVILY monitored.

Under such circumstances, how do you explain "whoops I leaked the game?" And your conspiracy theory does not serve any cause, it's self-righteous justification for piracy. Especially if you still believe that it will not harm sales, because it will.

"I could have the whole thing for 70$ and a trip to the game store or a good playable chunk of it for free and a few mouse clicks"

It's just how things are, and it's the same problem with the american anime industry.


Yeah i HAVE SEEN the internal workings of the games industry ( See above ) Also still have several friends working in big games devs........ and am obviously much more aware than you are of some of the hairy arsed, going commando type shit that actually goes on. Demo versions left unattended in magazine or review sites offices whilst everyone goes to the pub, dev versions taken home to work with or just screw around with, demo versions that disappear at trade fairs, etc, etc.
All contrary to correct studio policies, but it happens the list is actually fuckin' endless.
In most cases the primary concern is avoiding the publisher finding out, that can be REALLY bad juju

Oh yeah just to correct yet another unsupported assertion of yours ...... I DON'T HAVE a conspiracy theory. I was the one to 1st call it a 'conspiracy theory' and at no point have i stated or suggested that i subscribe to the theory. When your open minded it is possible to comment on something you don't believe yourself. The only one i hear who's self righteous is you, and no one needs to justify anything ...... but a lot of people who have no interest in downloading the beta still subscribe to the theory ..... personally thinking a little laterally about it i feel its got more to do with how jaundiced and suspicious people are of modern media manipulation than anything else.  

once again making the mistake of basing your assertions on MASSIVE lack of actual knowledge. I actually said it a few times in my previous  post ........ THE GAME IS MASSIVELY UNFINISHED. No one who intended to buy it would be put off buying it in favour of holding onto the beta, it is far less finished than a bad demo. Only people it would put off a purchase would be people who just didn't like it = same result as a proper demo.

your assumptions of holographic tech are just that. With as poorly received as 3d tech is dont be surprised if in the next 10 years you start to see holographic tech on the consumer market. I wouldnt be shocked to see holographic things in functional format for people to use in like 15 years where its either part of the video cards or like the physx cards were when they first came out a couple hundred bucks extra for a holo card

No actually my opinions are based on a professional and personal interest in 3D technology that spans about the past 20 years, backed by fairly detailed knowledge of whats happening research-wise with respect to actual holographic projection.
No offence but maybe you don't understand how full motion holograms are generated, it will take more than just a new generation of graphics adapter to enable genuine consumer level holographics, a completely new form of consumer level display technology is needed as you cannot protect holograms from a screen. Holograms are projected and would require calibrated projectors which are expensive, difficult to setup, unreliable in various light conditions and from other than very restrictive angles, etc. or some kind of Holo-tank technology ..... which is suggested by researchers but far from being developed.Ok so what you meant to say in your 1st post was that in 10-15 years hologram tech is likely to be available. And you think PCs and consoles will even still exist then?!?!?
« Last Edit: February 16, 2011, 09:39:23 PM by Guru Zeb »
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Offline Khundes

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #37 on: February 17, 2011, 04:07:07 AM »
People claiming it's a clever publicity stunt are just looking to justify their piracy. Here's a hard truth: They're wrong and they're in denial to make themselves look like not so bad people.


No people claiming its a publicity stunt are just being typical, modern, media jaundiced, conspiracy promoters. I think you over emphasize some kind of moral decision, that only you see. No one has to justify anything .... though i'd be interested to hear you make some kind of defence of your implicit piracy of Japanese media content without sounding like a monstrous hypocrite. Hows ripping of Japanese media ok, but ripping off German media (from an industry several times the size of the Anime industry) is a crime against humanity.
Maybe you don't keep yourself informed but quite a few blogs and even a couple of game sites have commented on how the leak could be a publicity stunt, not an idea i subscribe to personally.
But idea is way more widespread than just those who have downloaded the game ...... i would have though someone with your sharp perceptions and industry contacts you must have would have known this.

Notice you only tackle the part of my argument that can be refuted by nothing more than opinionated hyperbole, and self righteous moral indignation.
No comment on how this will not kick the hype-train into global overdrive, resulting in more sales.
Or that Crytek have time to alter the Auth master key ......... still if built a house of straw i'd be careful what i sneezed on.

Uh... strawman's argument. The conspiracy theory is the justification.

And lol @ hypocrisy. Crytek and american anime industries are two completely different monsters, and I do my part in supporting the Japanese industry, and will continue to do so in the foreseeable future.

And sneers at me? really?

Notice how you conveniently ignore my argument. But just for the sake of argument, I'll go in detail.
What is a leaked beta? Or leaked build from mid January? It's a buggy half-implemented yet playable version of the game. Now I'll make a broad argument and say there's 5 types of people that matter in this argument.
1- People who get the leak and are disappointed. These people will not buy the game. No matter what.
2- People who get the leak and are satisfied. These people MIGHT get the 70 bucks game or be satisfied with just the beta and wait until the game drops in price. And yes there's probably some in here that will buy the game, but if history repeats itself and it has a tendency to, these will be a tiny minority of this group of people. Note that most of these people might have bought the game full price without the leak.
3- People who don't get the leak and don't look for details about it. These will be unaffected by the leak (The more people hearing about the leak, the smaller this category)
4- People who don't get the leak but see it and get a positive opinion from it. These will probably buy it, provided they don't get the leak first, in which case they'd fall into category 2.
5- People who see the leak and get a negative opinion of it. These are all LOST SALES. Even if they would have hated the game, some of these people would have bought the game anyway. This is a serious loss of profits.

The safest place for people to be is in category 3, from a company standpoint. Yes, categories 2 and 4 will generate some sales, but chances are most of these sales would have happened anyway. Now you said it yourself, the leak is a buggy mess of a beta. It is FAR more likely to generate people from categories 1 and 5. Anyone who knows anything about games and marketing knows this. "Leaked" screens are one thing. A leaked playable is a whole other monster. No company in its right mind would do this. It's akin to commercial suicide.

Therefore, all these conspiracy theorists defend their point as a means of justifying their piracy. Because "Hey, it's just a marketing ploy right? I'm not hurting anyone right? It's all a conspiracy right? I'm good right? *Pirates*".

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The last month of "development" is hardly that. Gold Master is when the game gets shipped off to factories so it gets boxed. No real room for improvement there. They were likely near the end of beta testing, though who knows how recent the leaked beta actually was.

Plus, having been a tester myself, I can assure you a game can look very unfinished until a few days before it's shipped, when they finally dump you a build with everything patched up. At that point though, features are already all implemented. Nothing new gets added in that phase ever. Stuff does get cut out though.


Considering you haven't seen the leaked beta ( but i have ), you seem to be making a lot of assumption and statements based on a gaping hole where some actual knowledge ought to be.
Here are some genuine facts for you:
1: The beta (am still not sure it should even be called a beta but whatever ) is from an early January build.
2: The beta is missing all manor of things, textures, sounds, objects, script elements. Large parts of the  options menus don't work at all. Level transport is not fully implemented, etc ........

What i've seen is nothing like even close to a fully featured demo let alone a gold master. its main feature for downloaders seems to be the fact that it actually runs and there isn't an official demo yet.

Tester .... what an employed internal tester or one of the kiddy goons the publishers insist you roll into the studio to make gee wow noises on a saturday.
I ask as i have been employed by 2 games companies and done freelance work for 3 others as modeller/Animator.  :P

But i see no relevance in your remark as what a studio can do in a few days to finalise a game is irrelevant to the fact that the beta is not going to get any further studio dev now its public. The beta is what it is and will stay what it is a very unpolished and flawed early beta copy missing lots of finalised features and content.

My point is, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT IS IN THE DAMN BETA. What does matter is that is it playable and showcases most of what the game intends to offer! What matters is that it creates expectations, or most likely if it's very unpolished, a lack of them! This hurts sales!


Congrats on your curriculum. Might want to review the security protocols where you work before claiming you can accidentally leak games again. It might affect your credibility. Or your employment opportunities, should you be the source of such an accidental leak. You know. For your own good.

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It's all about profitability. If the PC version sells poorly, guess who's the scapegoat? The game's quality? The substandard graphics? Of course not, it'll be the pirates. And the industry is very good with such limited views.

Also there's a core difference with a game being leaked BEFORE release, and a game being cracked after having been on the market for a while.

And about the PS3, trust has been lost over that issue. More to the point: The DS lost the GBA slot in favor of a camera. Is it because people genuinely wanted a poor resolution camera on their portable console more then a slot that allows even more games to be played? Or is it because that GBA slot enabled a lot of DS piracy? This isn't even hard to see. There was nerd rage over that lost slot, pirates shunned the DSi and no one really said anything good about the camera.

So of course such cases of piracy matter. Especially with the PC, generally seen as the most pirated platform. Note that this leak does not help the PC in any way.


Once again you fly of on another 'outraged from cyberspace' rant, whilst ignoring the 10,000Ibs Gorilla in the room.
The simple fact that the chance of Crysis NOT selling well is pretty much non existent. Am willing to take any bet you want on the sales of Crysis making at least top 5 sales more likely top 3 very possibly #1 ...... even if its just a 0 sum bet for forum face. Seriously your not trying to tell me Crysis will sell badly due to the leak of a seriously compromised old beta ....... lol.
I guarantee exactly the opposite will happen. Am happy to take the bet, I'll even take the bet on 1st week sales figures
...... if your happy to acknowledge your assertion and stand behind it.

Explain to me how an illegal release of a highly unfinished beta which is not even at true demo stage, is worst than the inevitable cracking of the final commercial product. GCS freely released beta and alpha versions of S.T.A.L.K.E.R whilst it was in dev and it didn't harm their sales or stop STALKER achieving cult game status.
The 'it will harm sales' argument is incredibly crass and specious as the beta is soooo unfinished that no one who intended to buy the game would be happy with the beta, its not even demo version polished  ::)
If you'd seen it maybe you would realized that.
Console games get leaked early all the time and still sell millions of units on official release.

Exactly what point are you trying to make with the DS potted history (this is not a wiki page you know m8) I don't see how the comment in any way supports any point you may want yo make, as no one is going to invade your house and alter the hardware on your PC. If your point was in some cases piracy matters ........... all i can say is 'No shit Sherlock'.
But it matters most where companies overcharge and exploit gamers, and its pretty much defined by a companies response to piracy. The mature response 'its a fact of content development, but in reality it has little affect on sales, minimise it and move on' or the greedy corporate attitude 'any use of our content should and will be paid for, and we'll take any steps to make that happen'.

I'll agree it doesn't do the PC any favours ........ but it doesn't do it anywhere near as much real harm as you seem to imagine either.

Your bet idea is funny. The very basis of your bet idea is funny.
If people agree with me and support my stance, you win your bet.
But if people agree with you and your stance, I win your bet.

There's some sort of flawed logic there.


Your STALKER example is worlds away from this Crysis leak. The original STALKER was leaked 3 years before its release. And the original leak showed barely anything about the gameplay. This is a leak of a build approximately 2 months before the release. It's almost final, and the core aspects of gameplay are all there. STALKER is more like Half-Life 2, where they just redid the whole game rather then release the same that as what was leaked. Crytek doesn't have the money to do that, unfortunately. And they know it.

What point AM I making with the DS's evolution? Maybe that piracy influences console makers to improve security of their devices because they don't want it to happen and that PC games have to deal with a far less secure system and this invariably moving developers AWAY from the PC? Heck, why do you think a lot of PC games lately are console ports?

"Greedy corporate attitude"? Really now?

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Have you ever SEEN the inner workings of a game studio? The strict confidentiality? Here's a sample:
-No portable memory device allowed, including anything that can be refurbished into a memory device(That means even a regular DS is not allowed in).
-No camera or other recording device allowed inside at any time.
-For a studio of 1000 (Ubisoft Montreal in this case), there is ONE internet-capable computer and it is HEAVILY monitored.

Under such circumstances, how do you explain "whoops I leaked the game?" And your conspiracy theory does not serve any cause, it's self-righteous justification for piracy. Especially if you still believe that it will not harm sales, because it will.

"I could have the whole thing for 70$ and a trip to the game store or a good playable chunk of it for free and a few mouse clicks"

It's just how things are, and it's the same problem with the american anime industry.


Yeah i HAVE SEEN the internal workings of the games industry ( See above ) Also still have several friends working in big games devs........ and am obviously much more aware than you are of some of the hairy arsed, going commando type shit that actually goes on. Demo versions left unattended in magazine or review sites offices whilst everyone goes to the pub, dev versions taken home to work with or just screw around with, demo versions that disappear at trade fairs, etc, etc.
All contrary to correct studio policies, but it happens the list is actually fuckin' endless.
In most cases the primary concern is avoiding the publisher finding out, that can be REALLY bad juju

Oh yeah just to correct yet another unsupported assertion of yours ...... I DON'T HAVE a conspiracy theory. I was the one to 1st call it a 'conspiracy theory' and at no point have i stated or suggested that i subscribe to the theory. When your open minded it is possible to comment on something you don't believe yourself. The only one i hear who's self righteous is you, and no one needs to justify anything ...... but a lot of people who have no interest in downloading the beta still subscribe to the theory ..... personally thinking a little laterally about it i feel its got more to do with how jaundiced and suspicious people are of modern media manipulation than anything else.  

once again making the mistake of basing your assertions on MASSIVE lack of actual knowledge. I actually said it a few times in my previous  post ........ THE GAME IS MASSIVELY UNFINISHED. No one who intended to buy it would be put off buying it in favour of holding onto the beta, it is far less finished than a bad demo. Only people it would put off a purchase would be people who just didn't like it = same result as a proper demo.

Of course you don't want to publisher finding out about these mistakes, he'd freaking FIRE you for breaking security protocols. All these sound far too intentional given your job is on the line and all, but hey, I'll accept that leaks could be "accidental". Given how fast this one spread however, there was intent REALLY early in the leak.

And sure you don't support the conspiracy theory. You did bring it up though, and it needed to be addressed for the load of crap it is.

See above, buyers' minds are far more complex than you or I can even claim to understand, but you might want to look into the power of first impressions. Specifically because this leaked Beta will cause more lost sales then just people who wouldn't buy it anyway. Potential buyers WILL be turned off by the unfinished state of the leaked version.

Offline Guru Zeb

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #38 on: February 17, 2011, 01:33:13 PM »
Your bet idea is funny. The very basis of your bet idea is funny.
If people agree with me and support my stance, you win your bet.
But if people agree with you and your stance, I win your bet.

There's some sort of flawed logic there.

Ok so in short you still believe that the leak will hurt sales. Ok our positions are never going to merge.
So if your analysis is accurate and you believe it reflects reality (rather than just the result of arguing  yourself into a corner your too stubborn to back out of )  Take the bet then .......... just a 0 sum forum bet just for face and bragging rights ....... haven't you ever seen or been involved in a forum bet. All we do is announce the bet to the forum with a new post explaining the details, our respective position and calling on forum members to witness said bet.
Personally i don't see anything thats funny about it ............ forum bets are only really funny if the forfeit is an embarrassing sig or avatar. I even offer you a 1st week sales bet, surely 1st week sales are exactly the area where your suggesting sales would be hurt the most. Make your own suggestions am open to offers  ;D
I can understand you wishing to avoid a forum bet (as your position holds no substance) .......... but maybe you didn't read my suggestion carefully enough. How is a bet based on the sales figures of a game dependent on how many people support our respective positions?!?!?  ::)
Your justification is the one thats illogical, you are aware of the difference between a forum BET and a forum POLL.

As stated if you truly believe your position is accurate, then i don't see the problem with putting some credibility on the line and indulging in a little forum bet ....... I am more than happy to do it (as am 100% certain how well Crysis II will sell).
Your reluctance maybe says more about your position than your willing to openly state yourself.
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Offline Khundes

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Re: Crytek suffer HUGE leak PLAYABLE Crysis II beta released
« Reply #39 on: February 17, 2011, 08:15:43 PM »
Where to begin...

First: Where the hell did I say the game would not sell at all?
Second: Where did I even say it would not hit the top of the charts at release?

You seriously have to work on your assumption habit. It's bad for being taken seriously. I'm being honest here.

With that out of the way...

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/extra-credits/2653-Piracy

Watch it. Very instructive. It's more or less the stand I adopted towards piracy myself. You might learn a thing or two.

And because you seem so hung up on the bet...

You'll have to provide me with some information I must admit I am unable to acquire.
-How do you measure the amount of people, at launch, who would have bought Crysis II, but because of the leaked version, did not?
-How do you measure the amount of people, at launch, who would not have bought Crysis II but ended up doing so thanks to it?

Unless you can provide me with this data, we can't even have a bet, I'd have no data to show for myself! And there's the issue with piracy. The data is invisible.

What isn't, is the stats for Crysis I.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crysis#Reception

The game fared poorly at release, based on expectation. The game was at the top of piracy charts for a long while. The game managed to reach expectations and make a profit, it took a year and a half for it to do so, however. And later it became one of the best-selling PC games of all times.

These are the facts we have. Nothing less. We could add that Crysis was long regarded as a benchmark for Gaming PC performance universally, what with the old joke:
"I have a new kickass gaming PC! Woo hoo!"
"But can it run Crysis?"

It had a lot of piracy, but it was also a technical standard. Given these facts, Crysis II, which admitted to not being a PC benchmark this time, loses the marketing edge of being a technical standard, and this leak gives piracy a head start of sorts. What will the impact be? Who knows? The company pleaded for fans to buy the game at release despite the leak, a stand I myself have been pushing forward(made obvious by my first post in this topic, when actually read). Will people's good hearts make the game a hit despite the piracy? Will the piracy hurt sales enough to prevent Crysis II from ever making a profit?

If history repeats itself, Crysis II will probably at least pay for itself despite this. But then the real questions are "How long will it take" and "until it does, how will employees be paid properly?" Every time a game piracy leads to a lost sale, a lot of people get less money to live with. That means the studio has less money to make Crysis III all it could be, too. Is this really a stance worth defending? Is this really a way to appreciate games?