Steins;Gate [Series] [Visual Novel translated]

[froody1911]

The day the microwave magically disappears infront of him is the day i start betting on which episode he dies. Last episode being an obvious cop out.

IIRC Kyouma actually loses the microwave after helping Feiris in the VN. Because of his actions, there never had been a lab thus there is no time machine, leaving him stuck in that timeline but with Feiris as his lover, lol. Only opted for that ending once.

@nstgc
There is no rule that should never be broken. You can never fool your destiny. ;P

Spoiler tag please. For all we know, it might disappear in the anime too.

[Antheon]

Not the way it did in the Feiris route, that's why I did not consider it a spoiler. I keep the rest a secret, I swear. :D

[TiYlER]

there is something odd about Titor...

[Havoc10K]

Like what ?
We pretty much know nothing about him/her

[dbml]

there is something odd about Titor...

Yeah. I have a crazy feeling it's Okarin from the future but... only time will tell.

[Meomix]

What part of "Mad Scientist" don't you get? He stated that he thinks tedious research boring, and won't do it. So why should he be a good scientist, when that isn't what he wants to do? He has a lab assistant for that. lol

I thought the only way so far that a microwave can be made a time machine was from the application of generating steam. Sorry but it has been several years since I last read about it. I don't want to research it up now, because I am a mad scientist. lol No, because it might spoil the show.

Hoohoo so that what mad scientist actually meant? I thought it was all about breaking taboo's, still does not dismiss his retarded move with Feyris.

[Havoc10K]

nope, it doesn't, it would have made sense if that was the end of the story though, but nope, even mad scientist should be careful with SOME things

[nstgc]

The day the microwave magically disappears infront of him is the day i start betting on which episode he dies. Last episode being an obvious cop out.

IIRC Kyouma actually loses the microwave after helping Feiris in the VN. Because of his actions, there never had been a lab thus there is no time machine, leaving him stuck in that timeline but with Feiris as his lover, lol. Only opted for that ending once. After replaying that route again, the conditions for losing the time machine are slightly different.

@nstgc
There is no rule that should never be broken. You can never fool your destiny. ;P

In anime, there is one rule that can be broken, and has been broken, bur is treated as a rule which should never be broken more times then not. While there are exceptions (Monster Princess for instance) a bring a person back from the dead, if possible, is treated as a very bad idea.

[TiYlER]

there is something odd about Titor...

Yeah. I have a crazy feeling it's Okarin from the future but... only time will tell.

That is actually what I was thinking! And if it isn't true, he is in someway connected with them. He has to be. (If not, then I'll be disappointed...)

[Antheon]

Like what ?
We pretty much know nothing about him/her

Oh, we already know something about Titor. It's just too soon to come to a precise conclusion. Let us collect the data we have on him (I'll keep him male, not because I say he is but because John is a male name).

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1. In alpha timeline - you might refer to it as the original timeline from episode one, though that term is a bit misleading - John Titor time traveled to the year 2000 or earlier. We have no clue when exactly he arrived in the past, only that he started writing about time travelling on the internet in 2000.

2. The John Titor of alpha timeline seemed to have another reason to time travel than the John Titor of beta timeline. Why I think that way? Well, the most obvious would be that alpha Titor chose to time travel to 2000 while beta Titor never intended to do so and rather went to 2010. In addition to that, it seems that it isn't only a time discrepancy but also including space. We might assume that alpha Titor appeared in America thus writing on the American internet instead of the Japanese. Also, alpha Titor only said that he wanted to save the future whereas beta Titor clearly warned people that SERN is going to rule a dystopian world. I guess it is save to assume that John Titor would always have a reason for leaping through time and not randomly choose a year because that's fun. Whatever changed on July 23 also changed the future or at least John Titor.

3. John Titor was/is in possession of a real time leaping device. He already stated that he never heard of the D-mail before so he is using a different method to time travel. To still know about the future, he either moved his consciousness/mind to his present self or rather really time traveled. If he can only move his memories than he is limited in time travelling as it might be slightly difficult to move your mind to a you that hasn't been born yet. If he really does time travel, his time leaping device is much more advanced than both the Future Gadget Lab's phone microwave and SERN's device. If you carefully watched S;G you might also suspect what kind of time travelling device Titor has ...

4. John Titor seems to have another objective aside from preventing SERN's dystopia. While the other so-called facts have some kind of proof this is mostly speculation but isn't it odd that someone who wants to go against SERN time travels to Japan instead of Switzerland? Another question would be why the year 2010? If SERN successfully created a time machine in 2034 why going to 2010 and not for example 2030? One could argue that it had to be 2010 as it's still Okabe's story and he finds out about the phone microwave's power in 2010 but we do not know if Titor knew about the Future Gadget Lab before the time travel. So there could be another reason for Titor to choose Japan from 2010 ...

5. Steins;Gate's John Titor and our John Titor share some background. He is a time traveler from 2036 and travels back in time to warn people about a dystopia to come. He needs the IBN 5100 to prevent it. Now we might also speculate about other background similarities. He might be American or American/Japanese. He might have traveled to 1975 but - for some unknown reasons - kept quiet until 2000. Or he went to 2000, finished whatever he wanted to do and traveled to 1975. Our John Titor said that he stopped in 2000 for personal reasons, e.g. family. The S;G Titor might be doing the same thing in both alpha and beta timeline. Alpha Titor might have traveled back in time to prevent World War III. That would explain why he was so generic only warning people about a sad future instead of giving details. Because of beta timeline there wouldn't be a WWIII in his future but SERN appeared instead and turned the world upside-down. So something might have happened on July 28 and changed the future completely. If you take Makise Kurisu into this formula, we could assume that her death in alpha timeline might have caused or be related to WWIII. That is, if S;G copied the real John Titor's reason for time travelling ...

Now about his true identity ...

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1. John Titor could be a future self of Okabe Rintarō. What supports this theory is that Titor stated that you can meet your past self without fearing the Grandfather paradox. Though there are many problems with it. John Titor does not behave like Okabe at all nor does he contact his former self first. He is surprised that Rintarō remembers previous world lines which he should remember if he were his future self. Instead he wants Okabe to become a messiah, something we would not expect out of Okarin's mouth ...

2. John Titor is Makise Kurisu. That would explain the American/Japanese difference but there is one huge problem: Kurisu does not believe in time travel until she witnesses it with her own eyes. Either she is a damn good actress (if so her whole behavior ought to be an act ... riiiiight) or she is not Titor. Another thing that makes this option even more unlikely is that she has contact to her university and her professor. If Titor really just traveled to 2010 he could not have a university background, now could he?

3. John Titor is Amane Suzuha. The most likely candidate together with Moeka. She appeared as Mr. Brown's part-timer as soon as beta timeline is starting. John Titor appears roughly in the same timeframe. She has never seen fireworks before and her behavior is rather weird. She bears a grudge against Makise Kurisu altough she does not know her. She believes in brainwashing and she is also the one who suggests Rintarō to talk to John Titor though she couldn't possible know that Rintarō knows him - again, in beta timeline Titor just arrived and is not well-known outside of @channel. In addition to that she is the only one who does not seem to want to time travel after hearing about the phone microwave (aside from Mayuri of course), going so far as to mention to him that she is on his side ...

4. John Titor is Kiryū Moeka. The second most suspicious candidate. She is already looking for the IBN before Okabe even knows that he needs it himself. Who would need an IBN nowadays if not for hacking SERN's database? Making snapshots with her phone as proof of what she saw and experienced. Either she has some sort of anterograde amnesia or she knows/feels about the shifting of a world line. Or maybe she is just a weirdo who likes to take pictures ...

5. John Titor is someone else, unrelated to the recent cast. Could be possible that S;G wants us to believe one of the cast is John Titor while he is someone completely else. But then I guess you could say that we'd empathize more with him and his dark future if he were to be someone we already know.

I know, TL;DR, but I could not help it. Ignore it if you want to ... else I could continue about the aspects of time travel in S;G ...

@nstgc
I was referring to Steins;Gate not anime in general. If you talk about S;G then there is no bad idea regarding time travelling aside from time travelling itself. What I mean is that Steins;Gate bases the idea of time travelling on the Everett-Wheeler model of quantum physics, meaning that any possible time exists and that there are no paradoxes. Of course, based on the snowball effect, the bigger the change has been the stronger the future will be altered, so you could say it is a bad idea to prevent someone's death, as it will cause strong ripples in the space-time-continuum. But then again the big no-go has been time travelling to begin with. I'd like to go more into detail but I fear I'd spoiler you big time ...

[Havoc10K]

I have a weird feeling there is something no one mentioned before about SERN's successful time travel in 2034.

I think it's possible that Sern got a hold of Okame's microwave device for D-Mails and by the time of 2034 they managed to do a successful leap.

[Antheon]

I have a weird feeling there is something no one mentioned before about SERN's successful time travel in 2034.

I think it's possible that Sern got a hold of Okame's microwave device for D-Mails and by the time of 2034 they managed to do a successful leap.

SERN already successfully leaped in terms of leaping, though the test candidates ended jelly-fied, lol. Seriously, as we know the size of the objects is just too big to leap them without any harm. Even the D-mail sometimes is too big, causing the text messages to break up into several parts. So SERN would not have much of an advantage as they could probably D-mail themselves but they are not dumb/intelligent enough to think about mailing to the past, for all we know. But if Titor really traveled to the past, then SERN managed to overcome the size problem in 2034.

[Havoc10K]

Yes but in obtaining their device would bring them benefit as well, sending failed reports into the past so they can be used to counter the errors before they even happen, the reports already presented were being prepared "to be sent" so maybe SERN already has the same idea, I don't know how to bite this, but also, Titor could very well send a lot of information to the past, maybe first he sent himself to 2000 because he though there was an event he could interfere there to stop SERN but it failed so he sent himself to 2010 next, arrived in a changed reality where he "never though about sending himself to 2000 cuz there was no reason to do so" and now I just wonder if Titor actually IS in this current timeline.

[Antheon]

Didn't Itaru try to use the D-mail against Feiris without success? I don't know if it was related to the daytime limit of the phone microwave but it seems that D-mailing does not change the past everytime.

The sole fact that Titor comes from the future implies that he is leaping through time. Up till now the Future Gadget Lab did only manage to send messages to the past but never leap. So he would not forget about his visit to 2000, or he would've forgotten about him coming from the future to begin with. Also keep in mind that Titor's journey to 2010 happened after the first time alternation, so he (or rather his timeline) might be influenced by it as well. There is also the possibility that Okabe's actions might erase Titor's existence or kill him, lol.

[Havoc10K]

Didn't Itaru try to use the D-mail against Feiris without success? I don't know if it was related to the daytime limit of the phone microwave but it seems that D-mailing does not change the past everytime.

The sole fact that Titor comes from the future implies that he is leaping through time. Up till now the Future Gadget Lab did only manage to send messages to the past but never leap. So he would not forget about his visit to 2000, or he would've forgotten about him coming from the future to begin with. Also keep in mind that Titor's journey to 2010 happened after the first time alternation, so he (or rather his timeline) might be influenced by it as well. There is also the possibility that Okabe's actions might erase Titor's existence or kill him, lol.

every change in the past, even if it's just a message like "hello" is bound to make a change, if not visible then still something does change, also when did this happen ? bolded text ?

[Antheon]

My bad, I skimmed through the episodes and it did not happen. Was so sure though ... :|

True that a change is still a change but a small change like sending "hello" to the past is not going to alter the world's divergence much. You could say that the domino effect is used there whereas big changes also cause the snowball effect. I fear I can't say more without writing an essay about timelines and the Everett-Wheeler model of quantum physics or outright spoiler you.

[Havoc10K]

I think a small message like Hello can change quite a bit,
say you are about to do something, but you receive an email saying Hello from yourself, you usually get distracted enough by mails to at least read them, and something like that would really surprise me, it's a message from me, but I don't remember sending it, so I start thinking about it ending up not doing what I was supposed to do, or doing it much later when I decide not to bother myself about the mail itself, in my case that wouldn't happen, I would definitely stop doing what I was supposed to do and start thinking what is the meaning of this, that would change the fact I was meant to do something into I didn't do it, and that change could very well destroy the world, depending on what I was supposed to do and that event could lead to infinite numbers of events.

Possibilities of interfering in history are infinite and consequences of simple messages can be harmful in so many ways you might not even think of.

[Antheon]

You talk about the butterfly effect but use the domino effect in your example. And you forget about other people. As long as the world divergence does not hit a critical point, there won't be much of a change. You send a message to your former self, saying hello. That change compared to the original timeline in its entirety is laughable small. Yes, there will be a change but it will be so small, too small for the world to turn upside-down. You would be distracted, look at the mail with confusion but then your partner calls for your help and you decide to think about that strange mail later. This is just one of infinite possibilities how your example could end - and I only added one person to your world. Now imagine what it would look like with billions of people.

It's a completely different story when you cause/prevent someone's death, as this person is bound to many others who themselves are connected to another dozen of people. That multiplies with the importance of that person. Killing Hitler when he was still a kid screams for a huge timequake. World's history might take a total different course. And the difference of the world's divergence is not in the 10^-30% anymore, granting the change.

And just as a sidenote: Our planet has survived for quite some time now - despite the unimaginable threat of the so-called butterfly effect. :D

[Havoc10K]

How can you know that a small change like this is harmless ?
What if you are wrong ?

Also,

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Ika Musume would be the only one who can save the world from utter destruction, simply by being there

[Antheon]

In theory a change will cause another change of equal proportions, a cycle which repeats itself numberous times. Not all of them are additive and might interfere with the outcome of only one person's change. I don't know how the universe works. No-one does. So there will always be a chance that your message will kill us all. But I believe in the universe's structure. Like ripples in a pond that will disappear, I believe that the universe would even out most of the small ripples. It could have not existed that long if it were that fragile. But that is the very essence of the butterfly effect: We can not predict anything, there will always be uncertainty. So, let's just hope that the universe knows what it is doing and will never give us the power to destroy the entire creation, lol.

Talking about the butterfly effect: If the flapping of a butterfly could cause/prevent a hurricane somewhere else, how would you know for sure which butterfly caused a hurricane in Brazil? The German? The Spanish? Also, how many chains of changes could you follow until you loose track of which event caused genocide after 600 years of constant changes? After all, any change could have caused it ...