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Steins;Gate [Series] [Visual Novel translated]

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tomoya-kun:

--- Quote from: Havoc10K on September 01, 2011, 06:18:38 AM ---Spoiler fail.
If you really want to know, Rule #77, no matter who you defeat, there is always the stronger one next.
This means that no matter what problem you solve for the world, a new problem will always emerge, WWIII, Sern's Dystopia, this is part of the butterfly effect, preventing one flap of the wing doesn't make things better, not always, sometimes avoiding one event will bring rise to another that would have been prevented by the one that didn't happen. This is an infinite possibility, now stopping the WWIII they could very well emerge with Zombie Apocalypse, Dinosaurs all over the world reappearing suddenly, Aliens attacking, you name it. That is the essence of the butterfly effect. You can't predict what will change, you just hope it's not a disaster.

--- End quote ---

This show disproved the butterfly effect though.

Havoc10K:
Did it ?
Didn't notice, it only proved it's effects with insignificant events change to bring about a tragedy.

tomoya-kun:

--- Quote from: Havoc10K on September 01, 2011, 06:30:02 AM ---Did it ?
Didn't notice, it only proved it's effects with insignificant events change to bring about a tragedy.

--- End quote ---

First thing, the butterfly effect is only based off of initial conditions, in the field of chaos (where the term comes from).


But SG disproved it in that small variations in initial conditions (small things like what is eaten up to whole actions of individuals) do not affect the overall outcome. 

The butterfly effect is where a small change in a nonlinear system can cause large differences to the end result.

The show disproves this in that, there are major world lines, and within those world, certain outcomes cannot be changed by small detail changes within those systems.

The world line Okarin was in, it didn't matter what small changes occurred, Mayuri would still die, SERN would still take over, Suzuha would still arrive.  The outcome was not effected by small changes in the initial conditions.

The death of a most person may not affect the time line, but the death of important people like Kurisu resulted in a change in the world line, perhaps preventing SERN's takover.  This is no longer an example of the butterfly effect, as it is a major change.  It would be like Adolf Hitler dying in the trenches during WWI.

Since in the show only LARGE CHANGES can change the overall outcome, clearly the butterfly effect is not applicable.

I'm sure that small changes could cause small variations in the outcome; IE Mayuri's death in different manners.  However small changes (like choosing Dir. Pepper or Coca Cola) will have a negligible effect on the overall outcome.

It seems that the outcomes of Steins; Gate time lines are deterministic and not chaotic.

This is according to Chaos Theory.

Nikran:
Well Steins gate has predestined events that occur in each world line and such events supersede anything that can change the ultimate outcome. About the only thing that you can do with such events is create variations in the 'how' it plays out, but the end result always remains the same.

(click to show/hide)I think i've found a giant sized paradox involving these predestined events, perticuler in Mayushi case with her dying all the time. Lets say Okabe through d-mail/time leap systemically neutralized the rounders. To SERN it appears as if it's functioning as normal, but the rounders themselves are inactive or have been completely dismantled. Now how is Mayushi going to be killed now? Her assassins have been displaced/removed/defeated. There's nothing, as far as I'm aware, in steins gate that suggests this couldn't be pulled off.

The core of my little idea lies in the fact that her death is carried out by instruments (The rounders) for her predestined death. If the rounders can be destroyed or taken out of the picture then the instrument of this predestiny is no longer around to carry out the event. I imagine at that point one of 4 things could happen, A) predestiny is defeated and life goes on the way it did before fate became involved B) the universe spawns some new context fitting instrument to kill her B) the universe decides to kill her anyway and doesn't give a shit about context (Then proceeds to launch a comet at her or hit her with lighting, ect) C) faced with the paradox that she was supposed to die and didn't the universe does a BSOD and everything we know comes to an end =P

Havoc10K:
(click to show/hide)The change looks major to us, but for the world it isn't a major change, every character in the world is as important as a fly's fart, we are all insignificant, so any small change can bring out huge or minimum result, the result may be tragic for us, but in all honesty, the world doesn't give a shit. That is why I keep saying that this is constantly the butterfly effect, if Kurisu doesn't die and Mayushi doesn't die, those changes are still small, they just like x and y in mathematical manner, since x and y don't vanish, z occurs, now we have multiple variations of the z, it can be z1= the fly in north america farts loudly and everyone laughs, z2= you initially didn't want to buy a book, but you bought the book due to x+y=alive. Or z99645538=the world ends with an arctic meltdown (still doesn't affect the world itself cuz it still doesn't give a shit, just mankind=wipe *i hope*) So as you can see every change is a butterfly effect to another result. Kurisu and Mayushi staying alive means great success for Okarin, however a person that lives 2 blocks away doesn't even care about this and decides to wage world war 3. (click to show/hide)I think there were 2 times Mayushi died without the rounders involvement. so that doesn't change anything it seems. As Okabe said to Shining Fingers, the world demand the death, so the only way to stop the deaths is undoing what initially led to them. I think.

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