Steins;Gate [Series] [Visual Novel translated]

[tomoya-kun]

(click to show/hide)

  Well, Kurisu didn't go Yandere like I expected.  Actually, that made me quite sad.  Their relationship was so... wonderful?  I cried a bit

And now that the phone microwave is gone, what now? 

And now I pose a question to Havoc, who always seems to know these things.


How does Suzuha appear in this world line? 

1. Since Kurisu died, SERN will not gain control of the world.

2. Suzuha's time machine was the product of Okabe's lab during the resistance against SERN.  How has this come into existence now?

3.  Okabe and Kurisu are the only ones with the knowledge required to create a machine for Suzuha.  How does this occur again?

[Nikran]

(click to show/hide)

  Well, Kurisu didn't go Yandere like I expected.  Actually, that made me quite sad.  Their relationship was so... wonderful?  I cried a bit

And now that the phone microwave is gone, what now? 

And now I pose a question to Havoc, who always seems to know these things.


How does Suzuha appear in this world line? 

1. Since Kurisu died, SERN will not gain control of the world.

2. Suzuha's time machine was the product of Okabe's lab during the resistance against SERN.  How has this come into existence now?

3.  Okabe and Kurisu are the only ones with the knowledge required to create a machine for Suzuha.  How does this occur again?

(click to show/hide)

1. Supposingly in the beta world line you've got two possiblities occuring A) SERN rises to power via a different route, maybe somebody else developed a time machine further down the line B) SERN is no longer the threat, instead there is a new threat that has emerged in the beta world line.

2. Fat boy (Whatever his name is) developed Suzuha's time machine based off the phone microwave. Even though the phone microwave has been sent away it's already been constructed , so if whats his name needed to build the time machine he already knows how.

3. Incorrect. Okabe, Kurisu and Fat boy all know how to construct the phone microwave, but only fat boy can build the time machine. If I understand Okabe's current situation in the beta world line it may be that they have not conducted the phone microwave experiments yet which means only he knows what it can do. I think it's safe to say that sometime in the future Okabe asks whats his name to construct the time machine for sending Suzuha back into the past or something like that.

[tomoya-kun]

(click to show/hide)

  Well, Kurisu didn't go Yandere like I expected.  Actually, that made me quite sad.  Their relationship was so... wonderful?  I cried a bit

And now that the phone microwave is gone, what now? 

And now I pose a question to Havoc, who always seems to know these things.


How does Suzuha appear in this world line? 

1. Since Kurisu died, SERN will not gain control of the world.

2. Suzuha's time machine was the product of Okabe's lab during the resistance against SERN.  How has this come into existence now?

3.  Okabe and Kurisu are the only ones with the knowledge required to create a machine for Suzuha.  How does this occur again?

(click to show/hide)

1. Supposingly in the beta world line you've got two possiblities occuring A) SERN rises to power via a different route, maybe somebody else developed a time machine further down the line B) SERN is no longer the threat, instead there is a new threat that has emerged in the beta world line.

2. Fat boy (Whatever his name is) developed Suzuha's time machine based off the phone microwave. Even though the phone microwave has been sent away it's already been constructed , so if whats his name needed to build the time machine he already knows how.

3. Incorrect. Okabe, Kurisu and Fat boy all know how to construct the phone microwave, but only fat boy can build the time machine. If I understand Okabe's current situation in the beta world line it may be that they have not conducted the phone microwave experiments yet which means only he knows what it can do. I think it's safe to say that sometime in the future Okabe asks whats his name to construct the time machine for sending Suzuha back into the past or something like that.

(click to show/hide)

The one thing is, the one microwave never happened.  So Daru / Kurisu do not have the knowledge base that they had before.

And one last thing.  Did Mayuri / Daru retain their memories across the time lines?  Mayuri tells Okarin that's shen is okay now, and that it's his time to cry or something.  And before, she seemed to have dreams in recollection of the other time lines.  SO perhaps they remember in a sort of way?

[Meomix]

(click to show/hide)

  Well, Kurisu didn't go Yandere like I expected.  Actually, that made me quite sad.  Their relationship was so... wonderful?  I cried a bit

And now that the phone microwave is gone, what now? 

And now I pose a question to Havoc, who always seems to know these things.


How does Suzuha appear in this world line? 

1. Since Kurisu died, SERN will not gain control of the world.

2. Suzuha's time machine was the product of Okabe's lab during the resistance against SERN.  How has this come into existence now?

3.  Okabe and Kurisu are the only ones with the knowledge required to create a machine for Suzuha.  How does this occur again?

(click to show/hide)

1. Supposingly in the beta world line you've got two possiblities occuring A) SERN rises to power via a different route, maybe somebody else developed a time machine further down the line B) SERN is no longer the threat, instead there is a new threat that has emerged in the beta world line.

2. Fat boy (Whatever his name is) developed Suzuha's time machine based off the phone microwave. Even though the phone microwave has been sent away it's already been constructed , so if whats his name needed to build the time machine he already knows how.

3. Incorrect. Okabe, Kurisu and Fat boy all know how to construct the phone microwave, but only fat boy can build the time machine. If I understand Okabe's current situation in the beta world line it may be that they have not conducted the phone microwave experiments yet which means only he knows what it can do. I think it's safe to say that sometime in the future Okabe asks whats his name to construct the time machine for sending Suzuha back into the past or something like that.

(click to show/hide)

The one thing is, the one microwave never happened.  So Daru / Kurisu do not have the knowledge base that they had before.

And one last thing.  Did Mayuri / Daru retain their memories across the time lines?  Mayuri tells Okarin that's shen is okay now, and that it's his time to cry or something.  And before, she seemed to have dreams in recollection of the other time lines.  SO perhaps they remember in a sort of way?

(click to show/hide)

It's the 4th wall effect, this version of Mayushi may have time leaped quite a bit and found out why Okarin has been acting so off balance lately.

[Nikran]

(click to show/hide)

  Well, Kurisu didn't go Yandere like I expected.  Actually, that made me quite sad.  Their relationship was so... wonderful?  I cried a bit

And now that the phone microwave is gone, what now? 

And now I pose a question to Havoc, who always seems to know these things.


How does Suzuha appear in this world line? 

1. Since Kurisu died, SERN will not gain control of the world.

2. Suzuha's time machine was the product of Okabe's lab during the resistance against SERN.  How has this come into existence now?

3.  Okabe and Kurisu are the only ones with the knowledge required to create a machine for Suzuha.  How does this occur again?

(click to show/hide)

1. Supposingly in the beta world line you've got two possiblities occuring A) SERN rises to power via a different route, maybe somebody else developed a time machine further down the line B) SERN is no longer the threat, instead there is a new threat that has emerged in the beta world line.

2. Fat boy (Whatever his name is) developed Suzuha's time machine based off the phone microwave. Even though the phone microwave has been sent away it's already been constructed , so if whats his name needed to build the time machine he already knows how.

3. Incorrect. Okabe, Kurisu and Fat boy all know how to construct the phone microwave, but only fat boy can build the time machine. If I understand Okabe's current situation in the beta world line it may be that they have not conducted the phone microwave experiments yet which means only he knows what it can do. I think it's safe to say that sometime in the future Okabe asks whats his name to construct the time machine for sending Suzuha back into the past or something like that.

(click to show/hide)

The one thing is, the one microwave never happened.  So Daru / Kurisu do not have the knowledge base that they had before.

And one last thing.  Did Mayuri / Daru retain their memories across the time lines?  Mayuri tells Okarin that's shen is okay now, and that it's his time to cry or something.  And before, she seemed to have dreams in recollection of the other time lines.  SO perhaps they remember in a sort of way?

(click to show/hide)

It's the 4th wall effect, this version of Mayushi may have time leaped quite a bit and found out why Okarin has been acting so off balance lately.

Had to google that '4th wall effect.' never heard of it before and tbh i'm not sure if I found the correct info on it =P

(click to show/hide)

Meomix, could you expand on what you said about Mayushi time leaping? The only way she could have done any time leaping is if she (Or her memories at least) are from another time line since in this one Okabe has already stopped all time travel experiments (least until Suzuha showed up). Though I suppose she might be able to later on in this time line if Okabe pulls out the phone microwave again.

[Havoc10K]

(click to show/hide)

Technically if they all have a sleeping Steins Eye or whatever then they have a chance to trigger the memories and learn anyways.

[Meomix]

(click to show/hide)

  Well, Kurisu didn't go Yandere like I expected.  Actually, that made me quite sad.  Their relationship was so... wonderful?  I cried a bit

And now that the phone microwave is gone, what now? 

And now I pose a question to Havoc, who always seems to know these things.


How does Suzuha appear in this world line? 

1. Since Kurisu died, SERN will not gain control of the world.

2. Suzuha's time machine was the product of Okabe's lab during the resistance against SERN.  How has this come into existence now?

3.  Okabe and Kurisu are the only ones with the knowledge required to create a machine for Suzuha.  How does this occur again?

(click to show/hide)

1. Supposingly in the beta world line you've got two possiblities occuring A) SERN rises to power via a different route, maybe somebody else developed a time machine further down the line B) SERN is no longer the threat, instead there is a new threat that has emerged in the beta world line.

2. Fat boy (Whatever his name is) developed Suzuha's time machine based off the phone microwave. Even though the phone microwave has been sent away it's already been constructed , so if whats his name needed to build the time machine he already knows how.

3. Incorrect. Okabe, Kurisu and Fat boy all know how to construct the phone microwave, but only fat boy can build the time machine. If I understand Okabe's current situation in the beta world line it may be that they have not conducted the phone microwave experiments yet which means only he knows what it can do. I think it's safe to say that sometime in the future Okabe asks whats his name to construct the time machine for sending Suzuha back into the past or something like that.

(click to show/hide)

The one thing is, the one microwave never happened.  So Daru / Kurisu do not have the knowledge base that they had before.

And one last thing.  Did Mayuri / Daru retain their memories across the time lines?  Mayuri tells Okarin that's shen is okay now, and that it's his time to cry or something.  And before, she seemed to have dreams in recollection of the other time lines.  SO perhaps they remember in a sort of way?

(click to show/hide)

It's the 4th wall effect, this version of Mayushi may have time leaped quite a bit and found out why Okarin has been acting so off balance lately.

Had to google that '4th wall effect.' never heard of it before and tbh i'm not sure if I found the correct info on it =P

(click to show/hide)

Meomix, could you expand on what you said about Mayushi time leaping? The only way she could have done any time leaping is if she (Or her memories at least) are from another time line since in this one Okabe has already stopped all time travel experiments (least until Suzuha showed up). Though I suppose she might be able to later on in this time line if Okabe pulls out the phone microwave again.

(click to show/hide)

The 4th wall being us the viewers, who are mostly watching from Okarins POV.

[jaybug]

I had to look up anidb.net to make sure it wasn't ending with this episode. If they really had to, I felt it was a place you could stop. It was a story. But... with two eps. to go, I feel more like they will be 2 eps. of epilogue. But...I'm probably wrong.

Timing is everything in comedy. But why did I feel like crying when

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Kurisu shows up too late to tell him she loves him, after they bought the Beta version...that should be just uproariously funny, according to the laws of comedy.

It's still fantastic, and I still can't follow the science.

[tomoya-kun]

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I am starting to think now, perhaps the difference between the two world lines is small.  It was always ASSUMED that SERN does not take over in the future... but how is this confirmed?  They may have been able to develop their own time machine (as they have already developed the particle accelerator).  

Perhaps in both lines, SERN takes over, but with a variation in leadership.  

[Havoc10K]

Spoiler fail.
If you really want to know, Rule #77, no matter who you defeat, there is always the stronger one next.
This means that no matter what problem you solve for the world, a new problem will always emerge, WWIII, Sern's Dystopia, this is part of the butterfly effect, preventing one flap of the wing doesn't make things better, not always, sometimes avoiding one event will bring rise to another that would have been prevented by the one that didn't happen. This is an infinite possibility, now stopping the WWIII they could very well emerge with Zombie Apocalypse, Dinosaurs all over the world reappearing suddenly, Aliens attacking, you name it. That is the essence of the butterfly effect. You can't predict what will change, you just hope it's not a disaster.

[tomoya-kun]

Spoiler fail.
If you really want to know, Rule #77, no matter who you defeat, there is always the stronger one next.
This means that no matter what problem you solve for the world, a new problem will always emerge, WWIII, Sern's Dystopia, this is part of the butterfly effect, preventing one flap of the wing doesn't make things better, not always, sometimes avoiding one event will bring rise to another that would have been prevented by the one that didn't happen. This is an infinite possibility, now stopping the WWIII they could very well emerge with Zombie Apocalypse, Dinosaurs all over the world reappearing suddenly, Aliens attacking, you name it. That is the essence of the butterfly effect. You can't predict what will change, you just hope it's not a disaster.

This show disproved the butterfly effect though.

[Havoc10K]

Did it ?
Didn't notice, it only proved it's effects with insignificant events change to bring about a tragedy.

[tomoya-kun]

Did it ?
Didn't notice, it only proved it's effects with insignificant events change to bring about a tragedy.

First thing, the butterfly effect is only based off of initial conditions, in the field of chaos (where the term comes from).


But SG disproved it in that small variations in initial conditions (small things like what is eaten up to whole actions of individuals) do not affect the overall outcome. 

The butterfly effect is where a small change in a nonlinear system can cause large differences to the end result.

The show disproves this in that, there are major world lines, and within those world, certain outcomes cannot be changed by small detail changes within those systems.

The world line Okarin was in, it didn't matter what small changes occurred, Mayuri would still die, SERN would still take over, Suzuha would still arrive.  The outcome was not effected by small changes in the initial conditions.

The death of a most person may not affect the time line, but the death of important people like Kurisu resulted in a change in the world line, perhaps preventing SERN's takover.  This is no longer an example of the butterfly effect, as it is a major change.  It would be like Adolf Hitler dying in the trenches during WWI.

Since in the show only LARGE CHANGES can change the overall outcome, clearly the butterfly effect is not applicable.

I'm sure that small changes could cause small variations in the outcome; IE Mayuri's death in different manners.  However small changes (like choosing Dir. Pepper or Coca Cola) will have a negligible effect on the overall outcome.

It seems that the outcomes of Steins; Gate time lines are deterministic and not chaotic.

This is according to Chaos Theory.

[Nikran]

Well Steins gate has predestined events that occur in each world line and such events supersede anything that can change the ultimate outcome. About the only thing that you can do with such events is create variations in the 'how' it plays out, but the end result always remains the same.

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I think i've found a giant sized paradox involving these predestined events, perticuler in Mayushi case with her dying all the time. Lets say Okabe through d-mail/time leap systemically neutralized the rounders. To SERN it appears as if it's functioning as normal, but the rounders themselves are inactive or have been completely dismantled. Now how is Mayushi going to be killed now? Her assassins have been displaced/removed/defeated. There's nothing, as far as I'm aware, in steins gate that suggests this couldn't be pulled off.

The core of my little idea lies in the fact that her death is carried out by instruments (The rounders) for her predestined death. If the rounders can be destroyed or taken out of the picture then the instrument of this predestiny is no longer around to carry out the event. I imagine at that point one of 4 things could happen, A) predestiny is defeated and life goes on the way it did before fate became involved B) the universe spawns some new context fitting instrument to kill her B) the universe decides to kill her anyway and doesn't give a shit about context (Then proceeds to launch a comet at her or hit her with lighting, ect) C) faced with the paradox that she was supposed to die and didn't the universe does a BSOD and everything we know comes to an end =P

[Havoc10K]

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The change looks major to us, but for the world it isn't a major change, every character in the world is as important as a fly's fart, we are all insignificant, so any small change can bring out huge or minimum result, the result may be tragic for us, but in all honesty, the world doesn't give a shit. That is why I keep saying that this is constantly the butterfly effect, if Kurisu doesn't die and Mayushi doesn't die, those changes are still small, they just like x and y in mathematical manner, since x and y don't vanish, z occurs, now we have multiple variations of the z, it can be z1= the fly in north america farts loudly and everyone laughs, z2= you initially didn't want to buy a book, but you bought the book due to x+y=alive. Or z99645538=the world ends with an arctic meltdown (still doesn't affect the world itself cuz it still doesn't give a shit, just mankind=wipe *i hope*) So as you can see every change is a butterfly effect to another result. Kurisu and Mayushi staying alive means great success for Okarin, however a person that lives 2 blocks away doesn't even care about this and decides to wage world war 3.

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I think there were 2 times Mayushi died without the rounders involvement. so that doesn't change anything it seems. As Okabe said to Shining Fingers, the world demand the death, so the only way to stop the deaths is undoing what initially led to them. I think.

[tomoya-kun]

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The change looks major to us, but for the world it isn't a major change, every character in the world is as important as a fly's fart, we are all insignificant, so any small change can bring out huge or minimum result, the result may be tragic for us, but in all honesty, the world doesn't give a shit. That is why I keep saying that this is constantly the butterfly effect, if Kurisu doesn't die and Mayushi doesn't die, those changes are still small, they just like x and y in mathematical manner, since x and y don't vanish, z occurs, now we have multiple variations of the z, it can be z1= the fly in north america farts loudly and everyone laughs, z2= you initially didn't want to buy a book, but you bought the book due to x+y=alive. Or z99645538=the world ends with an arctic meltdown (still doesn't affect the world itself cuz it still doesn't give a shit, just mankind=wipe *i hope*) So as you can see every change is a butterfly effect to another result. Kurisu and Mayushi staying alive means great success for Okarin, however a person that lives 2 blocks away doesn't even care about this and decides to wage world war 3.

There is more to the initial world line change than meets the eye.

Kurisu DOES NOT need to stay alive in order to allow for SERN's takeover.  In the old world line, she dies once, and even if she dies, SERN takes over.  Now isn't that weird?  Her death should have instantly changed the world lines, yet nothing happened.  Therefore, either something else was behind her death to change the world line,

or this is an entire world based on INITIAL CONDITIONS.   Perhaps when splitting a time line, the outcome is deterministic and is entirely based on the initial conditions.  Yes, that is the butterfly effect, but nothing occurring within the time line can prevent the inevitable outcome.

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[Havoc10K]

From where do you know that SERN takes over if Kurisu dies ?

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Sern took over because she didn't die, Okarin made the D-Mail. That is how SERN knew about a working prototype of a time machine, Suzuha came into contact with them due to Kurisu being alive, and she believed Kurisu aided SERN.

[tomoya-kun]

From where do you know that SERN takes over if Kurisu dies ?

(click to show/hide)

Sern took over because she didn't die, Okarin made the D-Mail. That is how SERN knew about a working prototype of a time machine, Suzuha came into contact with them due to Kurisu being alive, and she believed Kurisu aided SERN.

I know this because she dies in EP13.  As shown in this photo.  A neck gunshot wound is a kill.  With no change in the world line or divergence meter.

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[Havoc10K]

If i am not mistaken, Kurisu died there shot by shining fingers, defending Mayushi, who dies anyway. Or something like that, it means She already participated in Okarin's experiment about the D-Mail. So SERN is active due to the D-Mail. Am I mistaken ?

[tomoya-kun]

If i am not mistaken, Kurisu died there shot by shining fingers, defending Mayushi, who dies anyway. Or something like that, it means She already participated in Okarin's experiment about the D-Mail. So SERN is active due to the D-Mail. Am I mistaken ?

You are correct.  I think that Kurisu is not important after the creation of the time leap machine / phone microwave, as SERN will already have the means to create a time machine.  She may be killed after that point, with no effect.

The difference in her first death is that she dies before the creation of the phone microwave and time leap machines.

This is in agreement with what I said earlier.  The initial conditions (during a world line split) determines the outcome independent of actions that occur in the new world line (apart from splitting the line again).


How about this as a possibility

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Suzuha killed Makise Kurisu.  If I am not forgotten, her machine landed in the same building that Kurisu was in. This, although causing a divergence, does not change the occurrence of SERN taking over, as they already have the capability to develop time travel.