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How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
Ixarku:
--- Quote from: AceHigh on February 28, 2011, 10:15:51 PM ---The only thing I see here is copying and modifying a more ancient lore that was also a product of copy and modification of an even more ancient lore. Seeing an original idea nowadays is almost impossible. I don't mind that Tolkien copy pasted very large portions of germanic/old English/scandinavian folklore, and I just think people should keep in mind that Tolkien was not an almighty god who created the setting all by himself with only original ideas.
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Yes, it’s already been said many times, including by Tolkien himself, that he drew heavily from European mythology as source material for LotR and all of the accompanying backstory. None of which changes the fact that Tolkien was the man that put it all together and presented it in the fashion that he did. There’s no such thing as an original idea; what’s original is the presentation. George Lucas wasn’t exactly a font of originality either, but who’s going to argue that Star Wars has been one of the most influential and successful sci-fi franchises of the last 30 years. (If you’re going to troll this last statement, I’m going to reach through the Internet and smack you upside the head.)
--- Quote from: AceHigh on February 28, 2011, 10:15:51 PM ---Actually Silmarillion is a good example that the story was well planned and thus well written. He did not excel in the art of writing, actually quite average there, but he got lucky by getting a right idea for a good fairytale.
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Comparing the Silmarillion to LotR isn’t really appropriate – it’s not an apples and oranges comparison. The Silmarillion is essentially a compilation of certain versions of essays and backstories that Tolkien had been accumulating for decades. His son, with the help of Guy Gavriel Kay (who is incidentally an excellent writer in his own right), pulled the Silmarillion together and put it into a presentable form. Tolkien’s vision was huge – he originally started what became his mythology when he was in the trenches during World War 1. The Silmarillion was published around 60 years later, after countless versions and rewrites. It’s only in the final version put together by Tolkien’s son that you get an impression of a ‘complete’ story. And consider all of the subsequent volumes of the history of Middle-earth that have been published – it’s all essentially a continuation of what Christopher Tolkien started after J.R.R. died. Tolkien is the quintessential author whose work is never truly finished, only abandoned, and this includes LotR itself.
--- Quote from: AceHigh on February 28, 2011, 10:15:51 PM ---Don't bring in numbers into the literature, that doesn't work. The most popular science fiction book by numbers is the bible, and it's storyline suckd, the writing style is horrible, very inconsistent and contradicting, very boring characters and moral point is so outdated that some thing written there can be seen as barbarism instead.
As far as I see I am still not wrong in a statement that Tolkien didn't come up with all that stuff by himself, also my personal opinion is that his skill of writing a book is not above average and I don't see what there is to argue about...
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Now you’re just being facetious. Nobody claimed that sales figures = talent. My point is that Tolkien’s influence is undeniable, and it’s not just hype. Regardless of the flaws in the writing itself, regardless of how ‘original’ or not that the material was, Tolkien’s stories & vision reached people in a very deep way that is a fairly rare occurrence in literature, and that is the reason why I, at least, hold him in high regard. H.P. Lovecraft was a horrible writer from a purely technical standpoint, and yet his writing has also been hugely influential over the years.
OK, I’m done now. Sorry for the tldr.
Proin Drakenzol:
--- Quote from: AceHigh on February 28, 2011, 06:19:31 PM ---
--- Quote from: Proin Drakenzol on February 28, 2011, 09:16:03 AM ---You grew out of knowing what is great, then.
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Hmm... I read enough literature to know that LOTR is far from the greatest novels out there. It just got a lot of hype and it's own Hollywood movie, so now people believe that LOTR actually made the genre ::)
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It did. It created the modern High Fantasy genre.
fohfoh:
LOTR imo was OK. It wasn't as "masterful" as most put it, it wasn't perfect as some believe and some agree, it was fucked for pace at times, full of shit in others (X, the son of Y, the son of Z the son of A) etc.
But for its time, it was THE book.
Those who are comparing LOTR to much more recent stuff are really stupid though. It's like saying Akira is, and always was shit and garbage and hairstyles were borrowed from Astro Boy.
Fool010:
--- Quote from: fohfoh on March 01, 2011, 07:31:09 AM ---LOTR imo was OK. It wasn't as "masterful" as most put it, it wasn't perfect as some believe and some agree, it was fucked for pace at times, full of shit in others (X, the son of Y, the son of Z the son of A) etc.
But for its time, it was THE book.
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More than else, it's the proof you can be highly inflentual despite not being perfect.
One of my biggest gripes is that while spending a whole lot of time fleshing out everyone's background and family history, Tolkien forgot to flesh out the personality and psychology of his characters, as a consequence most dialogue falls flat on it's face ... no to mention the most interesting character in the cast gets killed off in the first book.
Enzedder:
Still my favourite...
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