Author Topic: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?  (Read 5805 times)

Offline Notaperson

  • Member
  • Posts: 22
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2011, 04:42:00 AM »
Movie 1: "And now Frodo, let you be on your quest to destroy the one ring, oh and heres a giant hawk to carry you all of the way there, should make it a lot easier."

Ring is destroyed and Frodo rides off with two really busty babes.


I know, i was a born movie writer, i just can't be bothered getting off the couch.
Bad boy.

Offline datora

  • Member
  • Posts: 1411
  • "Warning! Otaku logic powers in use!"
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2011, 05:35:32 AM »
.
"Can you imagine what it would be like if we had walked the entire way ..?"

"Don't be silly!" "OMG!"

[lolz lolz]

"No! One of us might have died!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vh06CoC7th8
I win, once again, in my never-ending struggle against victory.

Offline Proin Drakenzol

  • Member
  • Posts: 2296
  • Tiny Dragon Powers of Doom!
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2011, 09:16:03 AM »
I'll state it again, Tolkien was a great creator but his writing skills weren't at par, which is kinda understandable as he wasn't an author but rather was a scholar who dabbled into literature. I once thought LOTR was the greatest thing I've ever read, then downgraded it to masterpiece and finally came to my present great -but flawed- stance.

It created the genre. Naturally it's going to seem "stale" after you've read a million other books in the genre it created.

Quote
@ freidax : that's kinda obvious. I still like the trilogy, but I grew out of the blind admiration phase.

You grew out of knowing what is great, then.

The linear nature of your Euclidean geometry both confounds and befuddles me.

Offline Fool010

  • Member
  • Posts: 1133
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #23 on: February 28, 2011, 12:37:54 PM »
You grew out of knowing what is great, then.
If by great you mean blindly oblivious of flaws, then yes ... I forgot what greatness is.

It wasn't even the first high fantasy I've ever read. I began reading sci-fi and fantasy somewhere around 1975-76 and first read LOTR in my first highschool year in 1979-80.

It didn't grow stale after reading other books, it did after reading them again.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2011, 12:57:44 PM by Fool010 »
There's no one in the world I'm interested in surpassing, excepted for myself.

MAL               last.fm

Offline xfreidax

  • Member
  • Posts: 1121
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #24 on: February 28, 2011, 03:11:14 PM »
I think that's the beauty of any creation. We can never know for sure what was intended. If you strip it down to the core of things, that's all there is to it. It's a form of expression. A sum of who that person is and how he looks at things. Try as we may to shoehorn his expression into our own framework, ultimately it fails because that's not the point. So what is the point? The point is to make us think. To challenge what we take for granted and to make our own sense of our crazy existence.

I think in every generation, there are works that capture our imagination because it's honest and true to who we are. Even in escape, what we try to escape from is mirrored in our imagination and gives form to our fantasy.

Tolkien. Is he a master storyteller? Yes he is. He sucked us in with the world he created and from that world, we each took home that sense of wonderment that fuels our own little creations. And at the end of the day, that's all that matters. Once you take a piece of work and start to rationalize it through your own lens, that's when it starts falling apart.

Offline AceHigh

  • Member
  • Posts: 12840
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #25 on: February 28, 2011, 06:19:31 PM »
You grew out of knowing what is great, then.

Hmm... I read enough literature to know that LOTR is far from the greatest novels out there. It just got a lot of hype and it's own Hollywood movie, so now people believe that LOTR actually made the genre  ::)
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline Scudworth

  • Member
  • Posts: 2009
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #26 on: February 28, 2011, 06:27:07 PM »
Long before any D&D game had 7 foot tall elven warriors and hafling thieves  there was LOTR.
SO yeah, in a way LOTR actually made the genre that almost every fantasy game draws on now.

When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons and make super lemons.

Offline Ixarku

  • Member
  • Posts: 4214
  • Professional Turd Polisher
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #27 on: February 28, 2011, 09:58:24 PM »
You grew out of knowing what is great, then.

Hmm... I read enough literature to know that LOTR is far from the greatest novels out there. It just got a lot of hype and it's own Hollywood movie, so now people believe that LOTR actually made the genre  ::)

Flaws aside, LotR is and has been one of the preeminent works of fantasy for the last 60 or so years, and has been hugely influential on fans and creative people worldwide.  Sales figures alone are at 150+ million copies by a few estimates I've seen.  The movies contributed significantly to a resurgence in the books' popularity, but the influence it had on fantasy and the prestige the series has held has been there for a long time.
It took an hour to write; I figured it'd take an hour to read.

Offline AceHigh

  • Member
  • Posts: 12840
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #28 on: February 28, 2011, 10:15:51 PM »
The only thing I see here is copying and modifying a more ancient lore that was also a product of copy and modification of an even more ancient lore. Seeing an original idea nowadays is almost impossible. I don't mind that Tolkien copy pasted very large portions of germanic/old English/scandinavian folklore, and I just think people should keep in mind that Tolkien was not an almighty god who created the setting all by himself with only original ideas.

But yeah, the adjustments and modifications he did to call the lore "his", did influence the image of an elf.

As for the way he wrote the book, it seems like he really changed his mind several times about the plot while writing it. Actually Silmarillion is a good example that the story was well planned and thus well written. He did not excel in the art of writing, actually quite average there, but he got lucky by getting a right idea for a good fairytale.

Quote
Sales figures alone are at 150+ million copies by a few estimates I've seen.
Don't bring in numbers into the literature, that doesn't work. The most popular science fiction book by numbers is the bible, and it's storyline suckd, the writing style is horrible, very inconsistent and contradicting, very boring characters and moral point is so outdated that some thing written there can be seen as barbarism instead.
As far as I see I am still not wrong in a statement that Tolkien didn't come up with all that stuff by himself, also my personal opinion is that his skill of writing a book is not above average and I don't see what there is to argue about...
For one thing, Tiff is not on any level what I would call a typical American.  She's not what I would consider a typical person.  I don't know any other genius geneticist anime-fan martial artist marksman model-level beauties, do you?

Offline Scudworth

  • Member
  • Posts: 2009
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #29 on: February 28, 2011, 10:25:49 PM »
Well I'm sure there are some "Tolkien Scholars" that would disagree with you.

When life gives you lemons, you clone those lemons and make super lemons.

Offline Ixarku

  • Member
  • Posts: 4214
  • Professional Turd Polisher
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #30 on: February 28, 2011, 11:45:48 PM »
The only thing I see here is copying and modifying a more ancient lore that was also a product of copy and modification of an even more ancient lore. Seeing an original idea nowadays is almost impossible. I don't mind that Tolkien copy pasted very large portions of germanic/old English/scandinavian folklore, and I just think people should keep in mind that Tolkien was not an almighty god who created the setting all by himself with only original ideas.

Yes, it’s already been said many times, including by Tolkien himself, that he drew heavily from European mythology as source material for LotR and all of the accompanying backstory.  None of which changes the fact that Tolkien was the man that put it all together and presented it in the fashion that he did.  There’s no such thing as an original idea; what’s original is the presentation.  George Lucas wasn’t exactly a font of originality either, but who’s going to argue that Star Wars has been one of the most influential and successful sci-fi franchises of the last 30 years.  (If you’re going to troll this last statement, I’m going to reach through the Internet and smack you upside the head.)

Actually Silmarillion is a good example that the story was well planned and thus well written. He did not excel in the art of writing, actually quite average there, but he got lucky by getting a right idea for a good fairytale.

Comparing the Silmarillion to LotR isn’t really appropriate – it’s not an apples and oranges comparison.  The Silmarillion is essentially a compilation of certain versions of essays and backstories that Tolkien had been accumulating for decades.  His son, with the help of Guy Gavriel Kay (who is incidentally an excellent writer in his own right), pulled the Silmarillion together and put it into a presentable form.  Tolkien’s vision was huge – he originally started what became his mythology when he was in the trenches during World War 1.  The Silmarillion was published around 60 years later, after countless versions and rewrites.  It’s only in the final version put together by Tolkien’s son that you get an impression of a ‘complete’ story.  And consider all of the subsequent volumes of the history of Middle-earth that have been published – it’s all essentially a continuation of what Christopher Tolkien started after J.R.R. died.  Tolkien is the quintessential author whose work is never truly finished, only abandoned, and this includes LotR itself.

Don't bring in numbers into the literature, that doesn't work. The most popular science fiction book by numbers is the bible, and it's storyline suckd, the writing style is horrible, very inconsistent and contradicting, very boring characters and moral point is so outdated that some thing written there can be seen as barbarism instead.

As far as I see I am still not wrong in a statement that Tolkien didn't come up with all that stuff by himself, also my personal opinion is that his skill of writing a book is not above average and I don't see what there is to argue about...

Now you’re just being facetious.  Nobody claimed that sales figures = talent.  My point is that Tolkien’s influence is undeniable, and it’s not just hype.  Regardless of the flaws in the writing itself, regardless of how ‘original’ or not that the material was, Tolkien’s stories & vision reached people in a very deep way that is a fairly rare occurrence in literature, and that is the reason why I, at least, hold him in high regard.  H.P. Lovecraft was a horrible writer from a purely technical standpoint, and yet his writing has also been hugely influential over the years.

OK, I’m done now.  Sorry for the tldr.
It took an hour to write; I figured it'd take an hour to read.

Offline Proin Drakenzol

  • Member
  • Posts: 2296
  • Tiny Dragon Powers of Doom!
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #31 on: March 01, 2011, 07:19:27 AM »
You grew out of knowing what is great, then.

Hmm... I read enough literature to know that LOTR is far from the greatest novels out there. It just got a lot of hype and it's own Hollywood movie, so now people believe that LOTR actually made the genre  ::)

It did. It created the modern High Fantasy genre.

The linear nature of your Euclidean geometry both confounds and befuddles me.

Offline fohfoh

  • Member
  • Posts: 12031
  • Mod AznV~ We don't call it "Live Action"
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #32 on: March 01, 2011, 07:31:09 AM »
LOTR imo was OK. It wasn't as "masterful" as most put it, it wasn't perfect as some believe and some agree, it was fucked for pace at times, full of shit in others (X, the son of Y, the son of Z the son of A) etc.

But for its time, it was THE book.

Those who are comparing LOTR to much more recent stuff are really stupid though. It's like saying Akira is, and always was shit and garbage and hairstyles were borrowed from Astro Boy.
This is your home now. So take advantage of everything here, except me.

Offline Fool010

  • Member
  • Posts: 1133
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #33 on: March 01, 2011, 03:32:29 PM »
LOTR imo was OK. It wasn't as "masterful" as most put it, it wasn't perfect as some believe and some agree, it was fucked for pace at times, full of shit in others (X, the son of Y, the son of Z the son of A) etc.

But for its time, it was THE book.

More than else, it's the proof you can be highly inflentual despite not being perfect.

One of my biggest gripes is that while spending a whole lot of time fleshing out everyone's background and family history, Tolkien forgot to flesh out the personality and psychology of his characters, as a consequence most dialogue falls flat on it's face ... no to mention the most interesting character in the cast gets killed off in the first book.
« Last Edit: March 01, 2011, 03:43:50 PM by Fool010 »
There's no one in the world I'm interested in surpassing, excepted for myself.

MAL               last.fm

Offline Enzedder

  • Former Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 3132
  • The Cute One
    • Youtube
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #34 on: March 01, 2011, 03:38:21 PM »

[MAL] | Nothing is either good nor bad but thinking makes it so.

Offline fohfoh

  • Member
  • Posts: 12031
  • Mod AznV~ We don't call it "Live Action"
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2011, 02:32:10 AM »
Narnia was a fun one to read too. I liked Narnia better than LOTR tbh. But I wouldn't directly compare the two.
This is your home now. So take advantage of everything here, except me.

Offline shabutie

  • Member
  • Posts: 2633
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #36 on: March 03, 2011, 02:35:53 AM »
Still my favourite...

Would have saved a bundle on time and movie productions ^_^


One of my favs

(Granted, I'm a Kevin Smith fan)

Offline Ixarku

  • Member
  • Posts: 4214
  • Professional Turd Polisher
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #37 on: March 03, 2011, 10:35:40 AM »
Narnia was a fun one to read too. I liked Narnia better than LOTR tbh. But I wouldn't directly compare the two.

Narnia was the very first fantasy I ever read, around when I was maybe age 7.  Good stuff.  Interestingly, C.S. Lewis and Tolkien were friends.  Both were members of an informal literary group when they were at Oxford.
It took an hour to write; I figured it'd take an hour to read.

Offline Fool010

  • Member
  • Posts: 1133
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #38 on: March 03, 2011, 10:56:29 AM »
Narnia was the very first fantasy I ever read, around when I was maybe age 7.

Same for me, The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe was my entry into fantasy and later sci-fi. Read it when I was 12.

The Narnia cycle is an easier read because it's specifically aimed at a younger audience, whereas LOTR is by no means meant to be a children's book. LOTR seems to be better suited for teenagers, though I always felt young adults were more likely to have the necessary maturity to oversee the basic 'kickass' factor.
There's no one in the world I'm interested in surpassing, excepted for myself.

MAL               last.fm

Offline undetz

  • Member
  • Posts: 3430
Re: How would YOU have ended Lord of the Rings?
« Reply #39 on: March 03, 2011, 10:57:39 AM »
H.P. Lovecraft was a horrible writer from a purely technical standpoint, and yet his writing has also been hugely influential over the years.

You're joking, right? From a purely technical standpoint HPL is possibly one of the greatest writers ever. The pacing of the stories is pretty much perfect, with constantly mounting tension until the climax at the end. He drops enough hints to give the reader an idea of what's going on, in fact the revelation in his stories often comes as a confirmation, but this doesn't diminish its effect on the reader, to the contrary, it enhances it. Despite the fact that he writes about things that often derive their horror from being contrary to the natural laws of the universe there's never anything resembling an ass-pull.
His understanding of rhythm and intonation was excellent, certainly, he's often long-winded in his descriptions, but the language flows from one sentence to the next. Never does one receive the impression of a shopping list where ordered items are ticked off after having been brought to the reader's attention. Try reading his stories as though you were speaking them out loud with no music or chatter in the background, and you may see what I mean.
If you've ever read some of the letters he wrote you'll notice that they're better formulated than much of what passes for literature, and he wrote those in one go. When crafting a story he kept writing and rewriting until he was satisifed, polishing the language, timing when a new bit of information would be revealed to the reader. No, to say Lovecraft's writing technique is horrible only goes to show you haven't studied the matter which you expound.