Desktop Air Cooling

[Lavo_2]

I've had this comp/case for just over half a year now, and I like it, but I've come to notice that the stock fans are rather... Lacking. I figure I might as well look into upgrading these fans, but I have absolutely no idea where to start, in terms of brands and companies to look for. In particular I'm looking for 80mm and 120mm fans, as those are the ones my case supports, and newegg CA links are pretty damn welcome, as are any examples/tips/whatnot.

[TMRNetShark]

Look into liquid cooling... it's not expensive at all... sorta.

But really? Going into your local computer store will result in a good fan... really, there isn't much into making a fan for a computer, so any model will work as long as you have the right size. Now heat sinks are a different story and quality ones will yield better cooling.

[xShadow]

I've had this comp/case for just over half a year now, and I like it, but I've come to notice that the stock fans are rather... Lacking. I figure I might as well look into upgrading these fans, but I have absolutely no idea where to start, in terms of brands and companies to look for. In particular I'm looking for 80mm and 120mm fans, as those are the ones my case supports, and newegg CA links are pretty damn welcome, as are any examples/tips/whatnot.

What do you mean by your fans lacking? Are they malfunctioning, or what?


I'm just wondering, because case fans don't even make THAT big of a difference, in my experience; as long as they merely keep the air moving in a certain direction in your case, I don't think you can ask them to do much more.

If your CPU is running too hot, you get a better CPU cooler. If your GPU is running too hot... well, that gets a little tricky. You might have to reorient airflow or just try to get another fan for it. I've never had that problem though.

I usually keep all of my case fans on medium, and I don't have a problem with temperatures. Is there some specific problem you're having? You don't just upgrade parts unless you know that there's actually a problem related to them.

[zat0x91]

The only benefits of replacing the stock fans are noise reduction and better air circulation throughout your case.  If I were you: I'd just get some non-ricer silent fans by Yate Loon.

Look into liquid cooling... it's not expensive at all... sorta.

There isn't much into making a fan for a computer, so any model will work as long as you have the right size.

Both statements are incorrect.  

Water cooling done properly will cost at least $150, if not more, just for a cpu loop; not all fans are perform equally: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=171661 ; http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=137832

[HiddenJumper]

I second what Shadow said.

The only time I've seen people replace good working fans that show no signs of failing is when they're going for the cool light shows in their case or if they're going for a full on liquid cooling setup.

Why replace something thats not broken? Unless if you like tricking out your rig.

[Lavo_2]

What do you mean by your fans lacking? Are they malfunctioning, or what?

I'm just wondering, because case fans don't even make THAT big of a difference, in my experience; as long as they merely keep the air moving in a certain direction in your case, I don't think you can ask them to do much more.

The air circulation seems to be crap, as the GPU's running fine, and the CPU isn't too warm, though 47-54 C might be a bit much for some.

[TMRNetShark]

Look into liquid cooling... it's not expensive at all... sorta.

There isn't much into making a fan for a computer, so any model will work as long as you have the right size.

Both statements are incorrect.  

Water cooling done properly will cost at least $150, if not more, just for a cpu loop; not all fans are perform equally: http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=171661 ; http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/showthread.php?t=137832

First statement was clearly sarcasm... but I forgot I'm on the intrawebs and I gotta make it painfully obvious of my sarcastic tones.

Secondly, a fan is a fan. You can design a fan to be more efficient than other fans or to be more quiet than other fans. Unless you have an extremely hardcore setup, fans don't matter so any mid range fan design gets the job done without spending $50-$100 on a freakin fan. A fan performs by how much air flow it can create and thereby having the ability to cool the heat sink better. Adding dBs to the mix is purely luxury vs the utility of a fan. Spending more money on having a slightly quieter PC is like buying an exhaust system that makes your car louder but not any faster. The links you showed had fans that showed CFM versus dB. The difference between the worst fan and the best fan at each CFM was only a difference in 5-10 dB. I'm sorry, but are you willing to pay more money for a high end fan or a mid range fan when the difference in dB at the same CFM is less than 5 dB?

To give you an idea, a 5 dB difference is only clearly noticeable of a change in sound level. 10 dB difference is twice as loud while 3 dB change is barely noticeable of a change.


So to restate what I said... and I mean restate. There is no significant difference between regular fans at your local computer store versus other more expensive fans. Cheap fans are just that, so you get what you pay for on the lower end... Unless you go water cooled, you will always have noise from your PC fans... OP, if you are really picky about 5-10 dB, by all means, spend your money the way you want. I'm just telling you it isn't worth it.

P.S. Seeing as how those links are 4 years old now, I thought I should add this. The largest difference in dB at the same CFM was around 13 dB difference between a San Ace 1011 and a Sunon 25mm. The San Ace 1011 is basically a cm bigger (at 38mm) while the Sunon 25mm has just that. The difference in price (back in 2007) was almost $15-$20. That much money for a measly 13 dB. To each their own I guess.

The air circulation seems to be crap, as the GPU's running fine, and the CPU isn't too warm, though 47-54 C might be a bit much for some.

Depending on the CPU, 47-54 C idle is bad, 47-54 C under heavy load is only a tiny bit high but is well within reason and stability. If it's the former, get a new fan and heat sink... if it's the latter (and you still want to fix it), get a new fan and heat sink as well (no other real options). Case circulation is important, but if the fan isn't broken, a brand new fan won't be much help.

[Lupin]

The OP should:
1. manage the cables.
2. make sure the number of intake fans are equal/greater than the number of outtake fans. More outtake fans will make your case a vacuum.

If you have a choice between 80mm and 120mm, pick the bigger one. It moves about the same amount of air with less rotations.

Depending on the CPU, 47-54 C idle is bad, 47-54 C under heavy load is only a tiny bit high but is well within reason and stability. If it's the former, get a new fan and heat sink... if it's the latter (and you still want to fix it), get a new fan and heat sink as well (no other real options). Case circulation is important, but if the fan isn't broken, a brand new fan won't be much help.

that's the probably normal idle temps for people living in the tropics (like me). Idle temps above 60 are what you should worry about.

[Temuthril]

More outtake fans will make your case a vacuum.

What kind of an effect would that have on temperatures?

[vuzedome]

Just screw in fans where ever possible in your case, then go get an after market bad ass CPU cooler.

[Lupin]

More outtake fans will make your case a vacuum.

What kind of an effect would that have on temperatures?

There's more air going out than going in. Air circulation will be less than optimal. Having more intake fans means there's more fresh, cold air is going in.

My current setup:
One outtake fan at the back, below the PSU.
One intake fan in front, blowing cool air on the harddrives.

Both are 120mm fans. They move around the same amount of air as an 80mm fan but with less rotations (and less noise)

[Lavo_2]

The OP should:
1. manage the cables.
2. make sure the number of intake fans are equal/greater than the number of outtake fans. More outtake fans will make your case a vacuum.

If you have a choice between 80mm and 120mm, pick the bigger one. It moves about the same amount of air with less rotations.

1) Will look into this one, esp. seeing as there's a good deal of cables in there, thanks to the PSU (Corsair's 750W).
2) Yeah, a vacuum would suck, though I'm not entirely sure how to check this.

And as for fan sizes, my case has both fans, 1 120mm near the CPU and the other near the HDD rack, 1 80mm over the CPU, another over/near the GPU, and a spot in the back for another 80mm fan.

So to restate what I said... and I mean restate. There is no significant difference between regular fans at your local computer store versus other more expensive fans. Cheap fans are just that, so you get what you pay for on the lower end... Unless you go water cooled, you will always have noise from your PC fans... OP, if you are really picky about 5-10 dB, by all means, spend your money the way you want. I'm just telling you it isn't worth it.

I wasn't thinking of getting really expensive fans at all, was thinking more that even some of the "lower end" fans are superior to these stock fans. And no, I'm not picky about 5-10 dB, I am picky about high-pitched noises however. As for the store versus 'net, I use newegg as it's 99% of the time cheaper than the local stores here, even the good ones.

Depending on the CPU, 47-54 C idle is bad, 47-54 C under heavy load is only a tiny bit high but is well within reason and stability. If it's the former, get a new fan and heat sink...

Tis the former. Come to think of it this is likely due to me using the stock CPU fan/heatsink.

Will look into a CPU cooler, as that seems to be more likely to solve my problems than slapping in new fans.

[xShadow]

Yes, if you're having ANY problems with CPU temperatures, ALWAYS look into a CPU fan before anything. By and far, it makes the absolute largest difference in your CPU temperatures. When I got this i5, the stock cooler that came with it was absolute shit. Under full load, the thing would go to like 50-60 C. With this Scythe cooler I got for it, that dropped to about 42-45 C. That's how big of a difference a good (or hell just decent) CPU cooler makes.

As for your case fans, if one of them is making a high pitched noise that's annoying, sure feel free to replace it.

For everything else, replace the CPU fan first and it shouldn't be necessary.

[Tegh]

Another thing to try would be the internal water cooling systems for the CPU only.  Corsair Hydro's (Normally H##) can be pretty cheap, you really don't have to do much to install them, and 0 maintenance.  Plus it will reduce the temp by about 20 degrees lol.  If you're the type that likes to over clock etc...it's a good buy.   

[SupraGuy]

A CPU only liquid cool is a good option, make the 120mm exhaust fan do double duty. Should cost between $50 and $70 for a decent one.

For the intake vs exhaust, take a look a tthe vast majority of cases out there, and you'll see an exhaust fan, but no intake fan at all. A 12V 80mm (or 120mm for that matter) isn't going to have enough power to lower the air pressure inside of the case measureably. (And if it could, so much the better, since lower pressure = lower temperature.) For fans, the amount that they move is dependant on the amount of power that the motor can provide.

I like the cool air on the hard drives for intake fans, so I arrange my intake fans that way. take advantage of convection by having intake close to the bottom, and exhaust close to the top, and have few trapped air pockets, and it's all good.

I'm less concerned about the ambient temps in my case than I am about the CPU/GPU temps. Lower ambient temps do make the CPU/GPU cooling solutions more efficient, but unless you're looking for signifigant noise reduction, replacing (working) fans isn't worthwhile. For noise resuction it's only worthwhile if you can increase the fan size.

Still, the best noise reduction that I've ever managed was to replace the whole case (Cheapo bargain special) with an Antec Sonata case, and a Corsair H150 CPU liquid cooler. The most noise from that now is the video card. (I also installed a 120mm intake fan which did not come with the case, to cool the HDDs.)

[kitamesume]

i got my fans from an electronics shop, those industrial muffin fans 80mm tho. so try checking out your local electronics shop too.

if you could look at the back of the fans, you see a sticker, mine are rated 12v 0.3a(running at 3.5watts each imho , yea really really powerful fans xD), theres 3wires on the fan, Vin, Vout and ground, if you disconnect the ground, they'll drop at half their maximum power so i modified my connections with a small switch that disconnects the ground to make it silent =P.

my system has like 4 of those fans, i modified my PSU and changed it's fan into one so it'll push air more around it, 1 outtake at the back port and two intakes on the side and front   all of them are modified with a switch on the ground like i mentioned above.

Edit: maybe i should mod my bottom case and put another intake fan right below the GPU so i could make a jet of fresh air cooling my GPU 

[iubyont]

Buy some Yate Loons either from Petras Tech Shop, Sidewinder Computers, or Danger Den.

[zat0x91]

Another thing to try would be the internal water cooling systems for the CPU only.  Corsair Hydro's (Normally H##) can be pretty cheap, you really don't have to do much to install them, and 0 maintenance.  Plus it will reduce the temp by about 20 degrees lol.  If you're the type that likes to over clock etc...it's a good buy.  

High end air cooling is always better than those kits; unless somehow you're that type of person who is somehow annoyed that it's taking up a lot of room in your case.

Buy some Yate Loons either from Petras Tech Shop, Sidewinder Computers, or Danger Den.

Do this.

[x5ga]

I got 3 fans on my PC case. 1 front (80mm), 1 side (120mm) and 1 back (120mm). when all 3 combined are working, the CPU temp is 2°C lower and the HDD temps are between 4-6°C lower. Changing the stock CPU fan to a Zerotherm Nirvana and adding a 2€ mini-cooler on the northbridge allowed me to overclock the CPU (Core2Duo E6320) from 1,86GHz to ≈3GHz while keeping it at somewhere below 54-55°C under heavy load and 32-35°C idle (room temp about 23°C). So yeah, air coolers can be pretty "cool". It can probably go higher than 3GHz if I can get a better PSU and better RAM.

Also, arrange the cables inside the case so that the airflow isn't interrupted or deviated, especially if you still got those wide-ass PATA ribbons.

As for the case fans, any ball-bearing ones are good. Look for low noise (dB) and high airflow (CFM).

[Lupin]

if you could look at the back of the fans, you see a sticker, mine are rated 12v 0.3a(running at 3.5watts each imho , yea really really powerful fans xD), theres 3wires on the fan, Vin, Vout and ground, if you disconnect the ground, they'll drop at half their maximum power so i modified my connections with a small switch that disconnects the ground to make it silent =P.

This would be an incorrect thing to do.

3-pin fans have ground, 12v/speed control and sensing pins. You can make the fan run quieter by connecting the 12v/speed control to a smaller voltage. You can connect that pin to the 5v in a molex connector. you can also connect the ground to 5v and the 12v pin to the 12v of a molex connector, resulting in a 7v input voltage. A better explanation can be found here

4-pin fans have a separate speed control pin that uses PWM--this means you can control the fan speed two ways.

my system has like 4 of those fans, i modified my PSU and changed it's fan into one so it'll push air more around it, 1 outtake at the back port and two intakes on the side and front  all of them are modified with a switch on the ground like i mentioned above.

My old Athlon XP 2600+ computer used to be like this. It has a lot of 80mm fans (case has 2 out, 3in, psu has 1 80mm out, 1 120mm in). While it ran cooler, it generated a considerable amount of noise. During summer days (I live in the same country as kitamusume), the fans doesn't have much effect, mobo and mobo temps in the high 40s, cpu in the high 50s. And that's on a case whose cables are neatly tucked.

I already described my current setup P2 955 in an earlier post. At noon, mobo/HDD temps are at low 40s and cpu temps at high 40s. It's very quiet and if not for the power/hdd LED, you won't even notice it's on. It will only reach high 50's at 100% load where the CPU fan will rotate wildly. Then again it's AMD's stock cooler.