Katanagatari 720p (tp7)

[RedSuisei]

Recently Coalgirls' Katanagatari was accepted, but someone pointed another release with better quality by tp7 a.k.a. Afternoon Naps Empire or whatever they call themselves. Apparently they've finished it, but right now it's still DDL only, though they said on their site that torrent will be posted soon.

Comparisons with CGi, posted by alexwmd on the current katanagatari torrent page here.

As you can see from the 1st screenshot, CGi has way more banding than tp7. Same with the 2nd screens, the upper right hand corner really looks bad there on CGi version. 3rd screens shows some jerky lines, and again, banding. for the 4th screens, CGi has more visible macroblocking. Not to say tp7's is perfect, but it is less visible than CGi.

Hoping someone would consider uploading this, and not end up like my earlier torrent request.

EDIT: Torrent is now up on their site.

[RedSuisei]

Bump request (not sure if it's allowed though). No one interested in uploading a better quality rip than the one available here?

[Nazo]

Elysium is also supposed to release a 720p soon, so that can also be considered.

[datora]

.

Bump request (not sure if it's allowed though). No one interested in uploading a better quality rip than the one available here?

Here:

 - http://wiki.bakabt.me/index.php/Site_Rules#Forum_Guidelines

A semi-rhetorical answer to a semi-rhetorical question (bump is not specifically forbidden, but double-posts are).  I'm not personally offended or complaining in this case, just an FYI.  And, I'll chip in my opinion that a bump could wait longer than 3-4 days; maybe a week to ten days minimum would be a better guideline.


On topic - the version we have up is already in pretty stunning quality.  I'm something of a quality whore, so if something even better is available, my ears are up.  However, it would have to be quite a significant improvement, and (for me) more than just visually.  I'd want to see evidence that other measures of "quality" (such as audio, sub style and translation) are clearly worth the effort.

In any case, my upper quality limit is with the 720 encodes.  I don't yet have a system that handles most true 1080 BDs, so I can wait a while.  And I need to be able to afford a half dozen TB in new archive storage, apart from a blazing quad core system.

[RedSuisei]

Well, me bumping seems to have resulted in several replies now, so I guess it worked out fine in the end?

Anyway, @datora, you can see the video quality comparison in the link I gave, I should say it's pretty obvious there. Then again, maybe that's just my eyes that can't stand banding and macroblocking in videos.

CGi uses 24bit FLAC, while tp7 uses 16bit. Of course, 24bit FLAC would be better, but I'd say it's a total waste of space for something that I'd bet no one can differentiate anyway.

I don't have CGi release myself, but looking at the screenshots in the torrent page, I don't really like the font that CGi uses. That is purely my preference though.

Translation, both are using Mazui translation. Nothing to compare here.

Only downside is the larger filesize @18.7GB, larger than Elysium's 1080p rip. I think it's best that we wait for Elysium's 720p and do another comparison then? Though, I'm somewhat skeptical if Elysium can make a comparable quality rip with a smaller filesize.


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EDIT: Not sure if anyone will see this edit without any bumping, but oh well. Elysium has released their 720p rip. I took screenshots of it to match the ones posted earlier, and also retook tp7 and CGi. Since we're comparing 3 releases, I made a zip instead.

Looking at the screenshots, I am surprised that Elysium, despite being 4GB smaller than CGi, is actually of comparable quality, or even better at some parts. Although, comparing to tp7 still shows that tp7 is better.
+ Screenshot 1 shows that tp7 has the least banding from the 3. And, looking at the pink area in her hair, tp7 and CGi has rough edges around it, while tp7 remains smooth. Also, it appears that Elysium is using a light warpsharp. Not that I have anything against warpsharp myself though. Elysium also has more visible blocking on the left side.
+Screenshot #2 is the most obvious, tp7 has much less banding than the other 2, and the only one that doesn't result in terrible macroblocking on the upper right section.
+ On #3, Elysium looks better than CGi, at least the fact that the lines aren't as jerky as the ones found in CGi. Again, tp7 still looks better, with less banding and smoother lines. Oh, you can also see the sub styling here.
+ On #4, I'd say that Elysium looks better than CGi in that it has less blocking. But the lines are rougher than CGi's. I believe I need not mention that again, tp7 still looks better.

Based on these screens, I'd say that as far as quality goes, tp7 still holds an edge. tp7 also has more extras than the other two. On the other hand, Elysium has much smaller filesize with comparable quality to CGi, even if CGi used ordered chapters. With this, I believe it's safe to assume CGi already out of the competition, since people who desire filesize will take Elysium for comparable quality, and people who desire quality will take tp7. The only aspect CGi has an advantage of is audio with 24bit FLAC instead of 16bit, although I really doubt anyone can hear the difference anyway. Much more doubtful than people who claim they can differentiate FLAC and q=0.7 AAC.

Now, between tp7 and Elysium, I believe it depends on what we are after. If we are after quality, then tp7 will be the best choice. On the other hand, if we're after filesize, then Elysium. Personally, I think the quality increase in tp7 rip is worth the additional filesize.

So, anyone up to offer either Elysium or tp7 rip?

[Mirari]

Ok I will let someone else offer the tp7 release. As someone else will most probably beat me to it before I get it all downloaded and do the torrent.
On a side note: Can someone please explain to me wtf is banding?

[sucram03]

I think that the screenshot comparisons that Red used are excellent and very good comparisons (lol saying the same thing twice :x ).  I agree with the filters used looking at those same screenshots and his general consensus for each.

The only thing I'd like to clarify is that unless you have a discrete soundcard (or a fairly decent/new motherboard), you probably cannot even play (true) 24bit samples anyway.  Don't get me wrong, I love my 24bit/96KHz vinyl FLAC's, but 16->24bits, no way is this noticeable.
So here, you all can get a good look at the styling.  In case CGi's sample somehow goofs up, I moved it without the ordered chapters (no OP), sorry.  It'll show the same material but may stop 3-4 seconds short of where it says it's going to

In these samples, I would point out careful attention to one item.  In particular, the GREEN KNAPSACK!  This thing has such horrible banding on it, you can clearly see which release handles it the best.  Actually, ANE can't even handle the close-up as Shichika walks across the screen left-to-right, on this stupid, horrible bag.  Clearly, this source had severe banding/haloing issues.  You can also get an idea of sub styling and ED karaoke, if you're into that sort of thing.  The sample is taken from Episode 3 at the end of the episode, and includes part of the ED.  I chose this episode because of the stupid green bag, and also because of facial close-ups with a very quick bit of action/fast-panning.  Also, I violated my ISP's Acceptable Use Policy last month, so this will have to do.  Alright, here we go!  Episode 3 samples:
Samples: End of Episode 3 - Runtime: 1m44s

Katanagatari 720p - ALL SAMPLES
Filesize: 118.41MB
Download .zip
Show Folder
CoalGirls
Filesize: 43.47MB
Download
ElysiumSubs
Filesize: 33.17MB
Download
Afternoon Naps Empire (tp7 is the encoder)
Filesize: 46.03MB
Download

Edit:  Mirari, if you want to see what banding is, pause the video after the first few seconds as the green bag goes across the screen, and notice the different "bands" of color.
Also, you can check this link and scroll down to the first section (ffdshow post-processing), where you can read about deband.  There is a nice comparison picture at the end of that section, but I won't hotlink to it.
Edit2:  Let me know if there are any links/my stupidity isn't working.  I'll fix those in the morning.

Thanks everyone!

2+ YEAR OLD EDIT: Mediafire links don't work anymore.  Just take my word on this, there's an obvious quality difference.

[RedSuisei]

Wow that's some terrible banding there, it seems the source itself is quite problematic, and ANE might have used some filter to reduce them (I might be wrong here though).

And yeah, I forgot about the soundcard requirement. Not to mention for most basic setup ffdshow will downsample them to 16 bit anyway.

Won't comment the styling since it's highly subjective, though IMO styling is the least important thing to consider, seeing that changing them to suit one's taste is not so hard to do.

Well, there's already a number of comparisons here, so I guess we can only wait someone to offer tp7 (I would if not because of my crappy upload speed) as well, and let the mods make the decision.

[Mirari]

Ok I am currently downloading ANE's release to offer it soon. I do agree that ANEs version has higher video quality. I don't think there is any denying that. But I prefer Elysiums sub styling much much better. (Guess I can mux that in laterz ) But the torrent is dead going at 0.3kb/s with an estimated time of 4 weeks. So I am downloading 18GB via DDL which is a pain in the fucking ass. Unless someone has it downloaded already and feels like offering it, be my guest. You save me bandwidth in that case. Or sending me the torrent while I finish downloading. In all cases expect Best version of Katanagatari 720p offered soon.  

[xgraphy]

ane:
cgi:
Elysium:

Hmm....
Banding doesn't matter to me if action sequences are forgotten to be paid attention to, do any of these releases fare better in this way?

[sucram03]

You know, looking at my sample again... I did notice some loss of detail/possible blocking while doing some of the fast pans, but it is not very noticeable.

Perhaps a new sample is needed just to focus on the action scenes.  Preferably something a little dark.

I've only watched the first 4 epsiodes and don't really want to spoil anything for myself (although I pretty much understand what's going to happen...)

So, could someone suggest a good action scene?  Possibly provide me timecodes?  Then I'll get those uploaded as well.

TL;DR:  Find me a good, dark(er) action scene.

[RedSuisei]

Actually, in that screenshot beeyacht give, it still shows that ANE is better. Look at Shichika's clothes (the black area), the other 2 looks blocky, especially Elysium. Also, whatever it is with the red color, look at the edges, ANE looks really smooth, while CGi looks rougher, and Elysium look even rougher.

But, anyone can notice what I just mentioned in motion? Because, that's exactly what CRF do; lower quality on high motion areas since people won't be able to notice it (Unless you got sharingan or something like that). That's why as far as comparisons go, I always prefer to do one on a low motion scenes.

[sucram03]

I agree, just like I was saying, I noticed loss of detail in the fast pans of this sample, but it was very small, and I was essentially looking for it.  Would not be noticed by the majority of people here.

However, that being said, the banding IS very noticeable.  This is basically the reason I chose this episode.  When I watched CGi's version originally, and I saw that bag being flashed across the screen, it was just disgusting.  I knew I had ffdshow trying to deband in post-processing too, but it did no good.  It was REALLY bad banding, and it is noticeable in motion.  It seemed like the bands literally "stayed there" while the bag was still moving around.  I'm still unclear as to how that happens and how banding happens in general, but...

Because of this, I am personally keeping ANE's version.  It deals with the problem in the best possible manner.  I will also be releasing a patch very shortly that will allow people to make a remux of ANE's video/audio with Elysium's subs and styling.  The patch weighs in at about 55MB, but that's pretty reasonable considering these are 12 (1-hour) episodes.

If you would like the patch, please get it:

Here

Make sure to read the README.  Thanks all!  Especially thanks to Mirari for extracting those fonts and subs for me, awesome job!

3DAYOLDEDIT:  Well, although I like the styling and some minor typos/grammatical things have been fixed, I've still found a couple here-and-there within the episodes.  I believe this was while watching Episode 6.  Things that would be pretty hard to notice, mostly very minor typos.  So although the script is edited slightly from Mazui, I don't think that Elysium's editing should carry any influence over the other releases that also use Mazui's subs.  I suppose I could run a QC and do yet another xdelta patch but... nah

2+YEAROLDEDIT: Link updated.