Discussion Forums > Gaming

Wii U

<< < (11/16) > >>

ph4zr:
Side note: I probably shouldn't have mentioned the graphics at all, since that wasn't my only concern. It was really just the concern that overlapped with the article's content. I played on that because it provided a convenient anchor point I could use to relate my statements to the article.


--- Quote from: Gangster301 on April 28, 2011, 05:14:33 PM ---Nintendo won this generation by far, you can't really view it as a race, Nintendo is driving a car, while microsoft and Sony are running far behind them.

--- End quote ---
I don't really look at sales figures, nor would I probably be able to make much sense of them. So I don't really know whether to disagree or agree with that in the current situation.

(click to show/hide)If you mean the upcoming generation, then in a sense I'd agree. They'll definitely get a head start. My worry is whether they'll be able to hold it. It's also true they'll get to "fix" some stuff based on what they saw this generation w/ Sony and MS. Graphics are getting to the point that a lot of people are happy with them, but I think that was true earlier on, too. When the N64 came out, a lot of people were "ooh"-ing and "ah"-ing over the 64 bit graphics. With FF7 on the PS before that, a lot of people were wowed by the CG. At that time, it was enough for them. Then the next generation came out and they were more like "no way!" Well, that was my impression, at least.

I don't know, I enjoyed the Wii even without the flashy graphics, but I wouldn't say that graphics couldn't be improved on enough for the next generation to make anyone notice or care about the difference between this and next gen, on any console.

And, c'mon, let's be serious here. Even if graphics themselves are getting to that point, there's a lot left to do. Fire and smoke effects, for example, are still severely lacking IMO. Liquid is getting a LOT better, but actually modeling massive amounts of it, realistically, is no small feat. If you've ever played DF (Dwarf Fortress), you've probably noticed that draining the ocean, on purpose or not, absolutely RAPES performance. Heck, even waterwheels will often give a noticeable FPS and steps per frame drop if your computer is lower end.

/sorry for language, but I felt it was appropriate

Then there's AI, which has less to do with a console's abilities than with the programming, but which is limited by it nonetheless. Actually having semi-realistic AI running simultaneously for a large amount of NP entities has to be rather taxing. Behavior often feels more natural when the developers try to keep it simple, but I'd still like to see a large scale battle take place between AI factions that I can really "get behind", in the sense that it feels like something actual players might do. RTSs sort of have this, but in that case you can have the AI at the commander level, rather than the individual level. I'm talking autonomous, individual entities, that "think" for themselves.

If it's been done I apologize, the kind of game I'd see that in isn't the kind of game I usually keep a look out for. And obviously I'm not an AI programmer or game developer, so I'm just speculating on the actual performance issues or difficulties in programming.
(click to show/hide)If you're talking about the generation we are still in, I'm not sure what you mean. As I said, I don't pay much attention to sales figures, but the impression I get from talking to people is that the 360 and PS3 markets are somewhat more active than the Wii ones. I hear more about games for those consoles than I do ones for the Wii. Wii does have some major hits, Zelda and Galaxy being the ones I hear most about. They aren't the only ones I liked, but they're the main ones I heard much fuss about.

BUT, most of the people I know are fall on the spectrum between 360 fan-boy to PS3 fan-boy, though, so my experience is likely rather skewed.

In terms of innovation, Nintendo was definitely well in the lead, IMO. It pretty much introduced the motion controller as a viable option—I don't consider the sixaxis controller to be in the same league. Maybe someone else did it first (I don't know), but the Wii brought it to more mainstream attention. Keep in mind, though, that what Sony and MS did when they introduced the Move and Kinect, they'll get to do again in the next generation, with the bonus that they'll be able to design their consoles from the ground up with support for any features that they copied from* for which they were inspired by Nintendo.

*I'm just poking fun. I really don't care, but I realize the distinction is non-trivial.

The part about taking a majority of the market in three years... I think that's true and not true at the same time. Yes, they'll get their head start and quite possibly dominate the market over those three years. On the other hand, those same gamers that left the 360 and PS3 will leave the Wii^2 just as quickly if MS and Sony get the drop on them when they introduce their consoles. Said consoles having -also- learned from Nintendo's experience, and having the technology edge, however sharp it may be by that time. /But at this point I'm just re-using my views from previous paragraphs.

(click to show/hide)Keep in mind these views wouldn't be exclusive to Nintendo, but would be applicable for any console seeking to introduce itself significantly earlier than other consoles. IMO, there are advantages and disadvantages to releasing much earlier or later than the competition. The main issue is which issues apply and whether or not the net effect gives a significant edge over the competition. It also depends on how -much- later you or the competition releases. If MS and Sony release w/in a year or so after Nintendo, I'd give Nintendo a clear edge. If they wait a few years to learn from Nintendo's experience, it becomes less clear to me.

To clarify that last statement, think of it like this: You're in a competition allowing you to change classes, but you can only change class once per round. You can change as early or as late as you want per round, but you can only change once per round, and you have to decide when you want to change classes before the next round starts. If -you- decide to change early and your opponents change late, you could potentially dominate them for most of the round. If your opponents decided to change shortly after you, however, they could easily choose whichever class is a hard counter to your own. The main issue is that nobody knows when their opponent is planning to change classes beforehand.

...But now I want to play a game like that...

Now, that is a rather contrived example, which overly simplifies things, but it mostly applies as a description of my concerns.

Gangster301:
The main reason why a powerful Nintendo console is so dengerous to Microsoft and Sony, ESPECIALLY if it's released a few years early, is that Nintendo is special, they stick out. If you buy a Nintendo console first, you usually buy a hardcore console(MS/Sony) because the Nintendo console can't play the hardcore games. But when the Nintendo console is just as powerful as the MS/Sony consoles, you're in a different situation. I bought a Wii first, then an xbox a year later. If the Wii had the cross-platform games that the xbox had, I would never have bought an xbox. That seems to be what'll happen in this next generation: People will buy Nintendo consoles and stick with it when MS and Sony release their consoles. Even if the MS & Sony consoles are more powerful, a lot of big developers don't want much more powerful consoles, since they take a long time to make games for. If Nintendo does this console right, with good specs and good online service, they may take up 1.5 times the size of the market they have today. They have 45% with the wii...

Tatsujin:

--- Quote from: fohfoh on April 27, 2011, 06:41:12 AM ---
--- Quote from: mgz on April 22, 2011, 10:55:02 PM ---
--- Quote from: vicious796 on April 20, 2011, 03:04:28 PM ---My real concern comes with the controller. Touch screen LCD? At least that's what I've heard so far. I've used enough touch screens in my life to know that's not gonna fly well and it's going to be f'ing expensive. I already think 50-60 for a controller is stupid, what'll that be? 75?

--- End quote ---
not to mention extremely fucking breakable

I come from the era of FUCK YOU<THROW CONTROLLERS> either talking to the game itself or to your friend who is being a cheap asshole. Adding a screen to the controller just = expensive all around

--- End quote ---

Wii never lost that sentiment.



--- Quote from: Tatsujin on April 22, 2011, 03:15:21 PM ---Next generation formats are still in development by Sony and other third parties that are supporting them. Just like how they did it with PS1 (CD), PS2 (DVD), PS3 (Blu-ray) so we'll see what PS4 will have. WTB 500 gig format!

--- End quote ---

Obviously something like NTFS and EXT5 or something like that. You think physical media is going to keep rollerblading down the alley?


Even if this new console is 80x more powerful, it means nothing if it can't be used to potential. Anyone want to look into the past and talk about how much SEGA was just way too fucking ahead of its time?


The controllers remind me of how the PSP can be connected to the PS3.

--- End quote ---
I agree. We don't know what the new generation consoles will be for their formats. We may still stick to discs and such with larger spaces. I know Microsoft will not have the same format as Sony because well, they don't believe in their technology. Nintendo likes to do its own thing.

But as for the new Nintendo console, since they're saying it's going to be more powerful than both the PS3 and the 360, then it better have a large medium format to hold the capacity for games.

Gangster301:

--- Quote from: Tatsujin on April 29, 2011, 02:55:24 AM ---We don't know what the new generation consoles will be for their formats. We may still stick to discs and such with larger spaces. I know Microsoft will not have the same format as Sony because well, they don't believe in their technology. Nintendo likes to do its own thing.

But as for the new Nintendo console, since they're saying it's going to be more powerful than both the PS3 and the 360, then it better have a large medium format to hold the capacity for games.

--- End quote ---

Saw a source confirming blu-ray. Don't remember if it was an official source or not.

fohfoh:
Think carefully for a moment. Nintendo won this generation isn't that far off. Profitability wise, I think Nintendo won pound for pound. Overall profits? I don't know.

Nintendo has always worked with what they themselves felt was the best for the "market" or "generation" or whatever. Nintendo has frequently had a different mentality than many other console makers such as Sega, Sony, Xbox etc. Hell, the DS vs PSP difference is ridiculous. They compete, sure, but I don't even know if I can put them in the same category. The DS really is about gaming. The PSP really is about media. The wii really relies on gaming. The PS3 and 360 really rely on graphics.

The fundamentals are different. Phantom hourglass (I think it was) on the DS blew my mind away. To think a puzzle could involved closing your DS then opening it back up... shit like that makes for REALLY cool ideas. If someone is going to make a truly terrifying game, I'm torn between wondering if Nintendo or Sony will come out with a title first. The only thing even close from Microsoft is Alan Wake IMO.

I think Nintendo traditionally has also been an easy to work with platform with developers too which may help a lot. But it makes hacking of their products easier. Please let this new console not be one overly obsessed with anti-piracy stuff and graphics. I don't want it to lose focus of the gaming aspect that's important.

Navigation

[0] Message Index

[#] Next page

[*] Previous page