Wii U

[Tatsujin]

Has there been a game that used the full blu-ray size?

Yes, plenty of games. Specifically, the exclusives fill up pretty well and you can tell the difference. Metal Gear Solid IV was an 80 gigs game, but they chopped down to make it fit into 50 gigs and we lost a lot of stuff. Kojima should have made two BD discs. The game solid over 5 million copies. There's a lot of other games, too.

yea by lost lots you mean another 30 gigs of fucking cut scenes.

MGS was less game play then cut scene

No, the 30 gigs were about 8 gigs of gameplay and 22 gigs of cut scenes. And to those that don't like the cut scenes, you might as well not play any Kojima games. I loved the cut scenes.

Has there been a game that used the full blu-ray size?

Yes, plenty of games. Specifically, the exclusives fill up pretty well and you can tell the difference. Metal Gear Solid IV was an 80 gigs game, but they chopped down to make it fit into 50 gigs and we lost a lot of stuff. Kojima should have made two BD discs. The game solid over 5 million copies. There's a lot of other games, too.

yea by lost lots you mean another 30 gigs of fucking cut scenes.

MGS was less game play then cut scene

MG4 had gameplay? I never noticed...

Yes, it did.

Nintendo announced the system will be present at E3. E3 will be held between June 7 to June 9. More information through the link. Their Nintendo Wii has sold over 86 million systems.

[vicious796]

While being unsure of where the picture came from - anyone else notice the controller on the picture? It looks like a regular controller - the bulk of a XBOX controller - with a screen in the middle. Obviously, that picture could just have been made up and I haven't been paying much attention to the Nintendo rumors for the past week - but do you think Nintendo is really moving away from the motion controllers to get more... conventional... with this system?

[Tatsujin]

While being unsure of where the picture came from - anyone else notice the controller on the picture? It looks like a regular controller - the bulk of a XBOX controller - with a screen in the middle. Obviously, that picture could just have been made up and I haven't been paying much attention to the Nintendo rumors for the past week - but do you think Nintendo is really moving away from the motion controllers to get more... conventional... with this system?

It would be nice to keep the Motion Controller intact. They've also announced a motion controller that is better than the PS3's Move. Thou', like you said, I'd really like to have games that are not-so-dependent on motion control.

So the system is officially going to release next year in 2012. If it's under 300 dollars and does exceed PS3's CELL processor and feature a big storage format for games, then this could be the idle system for hardcore games until Xbox 720 and PS4 come out. Nonetheless, we've seen how the 360 and PS3's first year in gaming went and having game designers go through some trouble (specially on the PS3). So there is no strong promises on how good Nintendo next generation console will be.

[fohfoh]

My real concern comes with the controller. Touch screen LCD? At least that's what I've heard so far. I've used enough touch screens in my life to know that's not gonna fly well and it's going to be f'ing expensive. I already think 50-60 for a controller is stupid, what'll that be? 75?

not to mention extremely fucking breakable

I come from the era of FUCK YOU<THROW CONTROLLERS> either talking to the game itself or to your friend who is being a cheap asshole. Adding a screen to the controller just = expensive all around

Wii never lost that sentiment.

Next generation formats are still in development by Sony and other third parties that are supporting them. Just like how they did it with PS1 (CD), PS2 (DVD), PS3 (Blu-ray) so we'll see what PS4 will have. WTB 500 gig format!

Obviously something like NTFS and EXT5 or something like that. You think physical media is going to keep rollerblading down the alley?


Even if this new console is 80x more powerful, it means nothing if it can't be used to potential. Anyone want to look into the past and talk about how much SEGA was just way too fucking ahead of its time?


The controllers remind me of how the PSP can be connected to the PS3.

[Havoc10K]

I have to agree with fohfoh, creating a powerful console and not using it's full capability should be punished by law, I mean, people pay a lot of scrilla for this (money for dummies) shit, and what do we get ? half assed games that are nice looking but short ? and you paid around 30-40$ for them ? I bet a lot of people are now looking at their game shelve and should count how much they actually paid for their fun, but was the money really worth it ?

That is why I first pirate the game to see if my money won't be disappointed with me, if I think the game is worth the money they want for it, I buy it, if not, I delete it, this sounds like i'm an asshole, but if the game I DL and install and play doesn't hook me for 10 mins and I see flaws, I don't want it, I have many original games, I think around 40 of them, and 20 for PS2.

I regret not checking out some of the PC games before I bought them, they disappointed me, but I am really interested if there will be a game that actually shows the full power of the PC, I haven't met a game that doesn't even run on my PC, and I'm still using Athlon II XP 64bit 5000+, I play most games on High Quality level, and some on Ultra, and i'm able to maintain 23-40 FPS which is good, but all those games are only good looking, there is nothing really exceptional in them.

I remember Final Fantasy 7 turned the entire gaming universe upside down because the visual level of the game for those times was stunning, and the game was really sucking you in with the story that actually lasted a few CDs cuz it was rather large, and the game was really fun and enjoyable.

When was the last time you felt something like that ? I sure didn't feel that for a very long time, I always felt bad when I was checking the space taken on some games DVDs, sometimes a lot of space was left, such a waste of space, could have been used for longer story, deeper plot, more places to go to.

In my opinion, if a game disk is not completely filled, it's a fail, the space available is wasted, even if the game is good looking and has many good qualities, even if it's on DVD9 or a BD50/90/120 and not completely full, that space could have been used for more content, and I feel bad for consoles not being used to their full potential with lack of real content.

[Gangster301]

You can't expect them to use the console to it's full potential right off the bat. Just look at the Elder Scrolls games. Oblivion was made with the 360 in mind and it looked great, but Skyrim is on the same console by the same people, yet it looks ten times better. So even if the new nintendo console is extremely powerful, it will take a few years before developers will be able to use that power.

[Havoc10K]

it's been a few years since next-gen consoles been released, I don't see anything spectacular actually, sure many games look really good, but nothing really spectacular, the power is not being used, I highly doubt devs use even half of the console potential.

[ph4zr]

Huh. I'd like to know why split-screen sometimes dumbs down the textures and even SP modes occasionally lag up a bit during special effects. Maybe I'm imagining things, though. That or my console's dying again. =/

Then again, if they're not using the functionality properly, it could lead to bottlenecks that would impact performance. Whether it's sub-optimal design or actually taxing the consoles' abilities isn't immediately apparent.

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With regard to the 2D/3D/XD thing, "time" as the fourth dimension is just what we typically think of. There's no actual requirement that states the fourth dimension has to be time, or even a continuous variable. It could just as easily be an additional "depth" axis. For example, you could be traveling through different "dimensional planes". I think there was a puzzle game for the DS that explored that theme a bit, but I never got around to playing it. Paper Mario games toy with this idea a bit, except the jump is from 2D to 3D rather than from 3D to 4D.

4D w/ time as the 4th isn't all that novel, either. Heck, when you're asking yourself how long to cook a grenade in an FPS/3PS, or which way to go to cut someone off, you're thinking in four dimensions. In an RTS this is even more prominent, since you have to factor in build and travel/action times.

Of course, since talking is a free action, it doesn't usually matter in JRPGs unless they use ATB and/or charge times.

More on-topic: What worries me about this, is that it's just now 2011, and Nintendo wants to launch its next console. IIRC, predictions placed the "next gen" set of consoles as coming out not much sooner than 2015, meaning Nintendo would be jumping the gun a bit if it plans to compete on equal footing w/ the next generation of Sony and XBox consoles. "More powerful than the 360 and PS3" doesn't mean a whole lot if Sony and MS get to learn from Nintendo's experience, with a 3 year technology edge to boot.

Mind, I'm not really in favor of one console or another. I just wonder if the head start on the "next gen" phase is going to be worth it given the life-span of today's consoles. A 2-3 year head start versus a decade or more of lagging behind? I don't know. On the other hand, I guess the article is right in that the graphics don't feel "current gen". In a sense Nintendo is just as late to this party as it is early to the next. x.x

Keep in mind:
/opinion: this is just mine.

[Havoc10K]

As a matter of fact, Nintendo was smart enough to release Wii while other companies released their HD consoles (XboX HD, hmm, oh well) which are somewhat successful, now Nintendo can release a console based on research they could have done on both consoles and release a real power house, I just thought of this possibility right now, but Nintendo could seriously damage Sony and Microsoft battle, and emerge victorious with a significant loot. If they play the cards well, they are going to win the poker game, think of Wii as their bluff with a poker face on, then they replace cards and watch as Sony and Microsoft keep raising, then Nintendo does a check, well see the cards soon enough.

[Gangster301]

Nintendo won this generation by far, you can't really view it as a race, Nintendo is driving a car, while microsoft and Sony are running far behind them.
By releasing a new console Nintendo are trying to maintain this lead, since graphics are at a point where most people don't feel like they need to be any better, and since Nintendo always makes an innovation & has a lot of well known franchises. + the fact that a lot of people who have wii's (me included) are getting bored of the lack of major titles.
If microsoft and Sony release a console in 2015, Nintendo has already had a 3 year head start, and taken a large portion of the market. Though Nintendo tends to become a secondary console for a lot of people, releasing a console which is able to run the most powerful console games will probably make this console the only console for a lot of gamers, even harcore ones.

[ph4zr]

Side note: I probably shouldn't have mentioned the graphics at all, since that wasn't my only concern. It was really just the concern that overlapped with the article's content. I played on that because it provided a convenient anchor point I could use to relate my statements to the article.

Nintendo won this generation by far, you can't really view it as a race, Nintendo is driving a car, while microsoft and Sony are running far behind them.

I don't really look at sales figures, nor would I probably be able to make much sense of them. So I don't really know whether to disagree or agree with that in the current situation.

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If you mean the upcoming generation, then in a sense I'd agree. They'll definitely get a head start. My worry is whether they'll be able to hold it. It's also true they'll get to "fix" some stuff based on what they saw this generation w/ Sony and MS. Graphics are getting to the point that a lot of people are happy with them, but I think that was true earlier on, too. When the N64 came out, a lot of people were "ooh"-ing and "ah"-ing over the 64 bit graphics. With FF7 on the PS before that, a lot of people were wowed by the CG. At that time, it was enough for them. Then the next generation came out and they were more like "no way!" Well, that was my impression, at least.

I don't know, I enjoyed the Wii even without the flashy graphics, but I wouldn't say that graphics couldn't be improved on enough for the next generation to make anyone notice or care about the difference between this and next gen, on any console.

And, c'mon, let's be serious here. Even if graphics themselves are getting to that point, there's a lot left to do. Fire and smoke effects, for example, are still severely lacking IMO. Liquid is getting a LOT better, but actually modeling massive amounts of it, realistically, is no small feat. If you've ever played DF (Dwarf Fortress), you've probably noticed that draining the ocean, on purpose or not, absolutely RAPES performance. Heck, even waterwheels will often give a noticeable FPS and steps per frame drop if your computer is lower end.

/sorry for language, but I felt it was appropriate

Then there's AI, which has less to do with a console's abilities than with the programming, but which is limited by it nonetheless. Actually having semi-realistic AI running simultaneously for a large amount of NP entities has to be rather taxing. Behavior often feels more natural when the developers try to keep it simple, but I'd still like to see a large scale battle take place between AI factions that I can really "get behind", in the sense that it feels like something actual players might do. RTSs sort of have this, but in that case you can have the AI at the commander level, rather than the individual level. I'm talking autonomous, individual entities, that "think" for themselves.

If it's been done I apologize, the kind of game I'd see that in isn't the kind of game I usually keep a look out for. And obviously I'm not an AI programmer or game developer, so I'm just speculating on the actual performance issues or difficulties in programming.

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If you're talking about the generation we are still in, I'm not sure what you mean. As I said, I don't pay much attention to sales figures, but the impression I get from talking to people is that the 360 and PS3 markets are somewhat more active than the Wii ones. I hear more about games for those consoles than I do ones for the Wii. Wii does have some major hits, Zelda and Galaxy being the ones I hear most about. They aren't the only ones I liked, but they're the main ones I heard much fuss about.

BUT, most of the people I know are fall on the spectrum between 360 fan-boy to PS3 fan-boy, though, so my experience is likely rather skewed.

In terms of innovation, Nintendo was definitely well in the lead, IMO. It pretty much introduced the motion controller as a viable option—I don't consider the sixaxis controller to be in the same league. Maybe someone else did it first (I don't know), but the Wii brought it to more mainstream attention. Keep in mind, though, that what Sony and MS did when they introduced the Move and Kinect, they'll get to do again in the next generation, with the bonus that they'll be able to design their consoles from the ground up with support for any features that they copied from* for which they were inspired by Nintendo.

*I'm just poking fun. I really don't care, but I realize the distinction is non-trivial.

The part about taking a majority of the market in three years... I think that's true and not true at the same time. Yes, they'll get their head start and quite possibly dominate the market over those three years. On the other hand, those same gamers that left the 360 and PS3 will leave the Wii^2 just as quickly if MS and Sony get the drop on them when they introduce their consoles. Said consoles having -also- learned from Nintendo's experience, and having the technology edge, however sharp it may be by that time. /But at this point I'm just re-using my views from previous paragraphs.

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Keep in mind these views wouldn't be exclusive to Nintendo, but would be applicable for any console seeking to introduce itself significantly earlier than other consoles. IMO, there are advantages and disadvantages to releasing much earlier or later than the competition. The main issue is which issues apply and whether or not the net effect gives a significant edge over the competition. It also depends on how -much- later you or the competition releases. If MS and Sony release w/in a year or so after Nintendo, I'd give Nintendo a clear edge. If they wait a few years to learn from Nintendo's experience, it becomes less clear to me.

To clarify that last statement, think of it like this: You're in a competition allowing you to change classes, but you can only change class once per round. You can change as early or as late as you want per round, but you can only change once per round, and you have to decide when you want to change classes before the next round starts. If -you- decide to change early and your opponents change late, you could potentially dominate them for most of the round. If your opponents decided to change shortly after you, however, they could easily choose whichever class is a hard counter to your own. The main issue is that nobody knows when their opponent is planning to change classes beforehand.

...But now I want to play a game like that...

Now, that is a rather contrived example, which overly simplifies things, but it mostly applies as a description of my concerns.

[Gangster301]

The main reason why a powerful Nintendo console is so dengerous to Microsoft and Sony, ESPECIALLY if it's released a few years early, is that Nintendo is special, they stick out. If you buy a Nintendo console first, you usually buy a hardcore console(MS/Sony) because the Nintendo console can't play the hardcore games. But when the Nintendo console is just as powerful as the MS/Sony consoles, you're in a different situation. I bought a Wii first, then an xbox a year later. If the Wii had the cross-platform games that the xbox had, I would never have bought an xbox. That seems to be what'll happen in this next generation: People will buy Nintendo consoles and stick with it when MS and Sony release their consoles. Even if the MS & Sony consoles are more powerful, a lot of big developers don't want much more powerful consoles, since they take a long time to make games for. If Nintendo does this console right, with good specs and good online service, they may take up 1.5 times the size of the market they have today. They have 45% with the wii...

[Tatsujin]

My real concern comes with the controller. Touch screen LCD? At least that's what I've heard so far. I've used enough touch screens in my life to know that's not gonna fly well and it's going to be f'ing expensive. I already think 50-60 for a controller is stupid, what'll that be? 75?

not to mention extremely fucking breakable

I come from the era of FUCK YOU<THROW CONTROLLERS> either talking to the game itself or to your friend who is being a cheap asshole. Adding a screen to the controller just = expensive all around

Wii never lost that sentiment.

Next generation formats are still in development by Sony and other third parties that are supporting them. Just like how they did it with PS1 (CD), PS2 (DVD), PS3 (Blu-ray) so we'll see what PS4 will have. WTB 500 gig format!

Obviously something like NTFS and EXT5 or something like that. You think physical media is going to keep rollerblading down the alley?


Even if this new console is 80x more powerful, it means nothing if it can't be used to potential. Anyone want to look into the past and talk about how much SEGA was just way too fucking ahead of its time?


The controllers remind me of how the PSP can be connected to the PS3.

I agree. We don't know what the new generation consoles will be for their formats. We may still stick to discs and such with larger spaces. I know Microsoft will not have the same format as Sony because well, they don't believe in their technology. Nintendo likes to do its own thing.

But as for the new Nintendo console, since they're saying it's going to be more powerful than both the PS3 and the 360, then it better have a large medium format to hold the capacity for games.

[Gangster301]

We don't know what the new generation consoles will be for their formats. We may still stick to discs and such with larger spaces. I know Microsoft will not have the same format as Sony because well, they don't believe in their technology. Nintendo likes to do its own thing.

But as for the new Nintendo console, since they're saying it's going to be more powerful than both the PS3 and the 360, then it better have a large medium format to hold the capacity for games.

Saw a source confirming blu-ray. Don't remember if it was an official source or not.

[fohfoh]

Think carefully for a moment. Nintendo won this generation isn't that far off. Profitability wise, I think Nintendo won pound for pound. Overall profits? I don't know.

Nintendo has always worked with what they themselves felt was the best for the "market" or "generation" or whatever. Nintendo has frequently had a different mentality than many other console makers such as Sega, Sony, Xbox etc. Hell, the DS vs PSP difference is ridiculous. They compete, sure, but I don't even know if I can put them in the same category. The DS really is about gaming. The PSP really is about media. The wii really relies on gaming. The PS3 and 360 really rely on graphics.

The fundamentals are different. Phantom hourglass (I think it was) on the DS blew my mind away. To think a puzzle could involved closing your DS then opening it back up... shit like that makes for REALLY cool ideas. If someone is going to make a truly terrifying game, I'm torn between wondering if Nintendo or Sony will come out with a title first. The only thing even close from Microsoft is Alan Wake IMO.

I think Nintendo traditionally has also been an easy to work with platform with developers too which may help a lot. But it makes hacking of their products easier. Please let this new console not be one overly obsessed with anti-piracy stuff and graphics. I don't want it to lose focus of the gaming aspect that's important.

[Tatsujin]

Iwata confirms non-DVD or Blu-ray playback for Wii U. [6.15.2011]

[fohfoh]

Btw... how do you guys actually think the name sounds like?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szk2xYIVKrQ

See 1:15

[TMRNetShark]

Btw... how do you guys actually think the name sounds like?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szk2xYIVKrQ

See 1:15

The name WiiU does sound like that! I lol'ed.

Iwata confirms non-DVD or Blu-ray playback for Wii U. [6.15.2011]

What? WHAT? WHAT?!!?!

Nintendo officially lost me. They are gonna make their own format? Doesn't this really alienate third party developers because now they'll either have to use Nintendo to print their game discs or be boned on making the game? Isn't this a regression in technology? Just WHAT?!

I think we are being rick-rolled by Nintendo... if this is really true... Nintendo... you are retarded. You are not helping your case. You tried to be different with the Wii and it sorta worked, but you never got away from the problem with third party developers. This does not help. That's 3 different formats or size limitations that developers now have to deal with. Usually multiplatform games go with the Xbox 360's standard of 8.5 GBs for their space limitation... but this is retarded.

How big will the format be? What type of laser will be used? Is this actually SMART?

[Tatsujin]

Nintendo’s Wii U – What it is and what it does. Nice info about Wii U, more information released along with mysterious ... specs.

[Gangster301]

Iwata confirms non-DVD or Blu-ray playback for Wii U. [6.15.2011]

What? WHAT? WHAT?!!?!

Nintendo officially lost me. They are gonna make their own format? Doesn't this really alienate third party developers because now they'll either have to use Nintendo to print their game discs or be boned on making the game? Isn't this a regression in technology? Just WHAT?!

I think we are being rick-rolled by Nintendo... if this is really true... Nintendo... you are retarded. You are not helping your case. You tried to be different with the Wii and it sorta worked, but you never got away from the problem with third party developers. This does not help. That's 3 different formats or size limitations that developers now have to deal with. Usually multiplatform games go with the Xbox 360's standard of 8.5 GBs for their space limitation... but this is retarded.

How big will the format be? What type of laser will be used? Is this actually SMART?

It's a 25GB format, and they've already got the big third-party developers on their side, so it doesn't seem to alienate them. I think the main reason for the format was to fight piracy, but I may be wrong.