Cowon peeps unite. Let's recommend a music player, learn, testimonials...

[fohfoh]

So... after a long struggle tonight with Tcctool for my bricked S9... I've finally decided to throw in the towel on my S9.

*Tears* It's like, soooooo damn close to being restored, but DAMN!!!! Failed firmware upgrade... feh.


So now, after an official 5 months of death or maybe 6 months, I've decided to find a way to replace my music needs.

I dislike using my iphone4 for music.

So... running from the past experience of 55 hours music playback and 11 hours video... (not that the latter really matters)... I need to make a decision. Seriously, Cowon and flac playback has made it essentially the only brand choice for me.

Choice A

Buy in Canada.

Choice B

Buy in Hong Kong


Reasons for A and B:

A: I'm looking at prices of about
$300 + 5% tax + $10 shipping for the X7
$219/279 + 5% tax + $10 shipping for J3 16/32GB respectively (8GB is $15 less than the 16, not worth looking at)
$370 + 5% tax + $10 shipping for the D3 Plenue

B: Price possibly cheaper? Test it out in person?

A/B: I'm leaving for Hong Kong May 1. So shipping to myself is likely not an option. But if it's really that much cheaper, I'll go for it in Hong Kong. However, if greed gets the best of me, Hong Kong and price really isn't an issue. I'll pay a slight premium so I'm not bored out of my mind in HK.


TRUE ISSUE:

Let's say for a moment that battery life and durability is an issue. S9 durability is fine. I dropped that shit many times and it never broke. (PS: Who was the person who blew up their S9 screen in a thread here but said it worked fine?) The buttons on the outside is a MUST. Holy shit I missed those so fucking much. I think almost all of the cowons have those, so it's not really an issue.

I LOVED the battery life of the S9. You can listen for 2 WHOLE DAYS without needing a charge. Seriously. I trekked that S9 to several continents, many countries, for 2 years before the failed firmware update fiasco.

Rankings:
X7: 103 hours
J3: 60 Hours
~~S9 55 hours
D3: 21hours

Each are still respectable times for music playback. (Which is likely the ONLY thing I want to use my pmp for). D3 is cutting it close, but if somehow the android OS makes it worthwhile... I'll consider it. But I really doubt this will occur due to me owning an iphone4.

Durability:
Honestly? No idea. But as long as it's not as fragile feeling as the iphone4, I'm happy.

Price:
D3: $370
X7 $300
J3: $220-280

Seriously though, money isn't a huge issue and I'm comfortable with spending a nice $300 ish. X7 and J3 are easy choices and I'm willing to choose one over the other based on usability, I don't care about cost per performance. D3 would need a hell of a lot of persuasion. I also own some pretty good cans already, so saving the money to go towards a good set of headphones is a null argument.


So what is the point of this thread? I want to hear what you guys think from either a Cowon user yourself, or someone unfamiliar with PMPs willing to take a glance and see if it's for you. I've already done quite a bit of reading at ABI forums and stuff like that. Feel free to toss in your "noob" questions or comments. That's fine too. "Is amoled really that much nicer on the eyes?" "Do you REALLY need 50+ hours of music playback?" "Based on your guys' knowledge, is it easy to convert and play anime on these PMPS?" (I personally don't like video on small screens) "Is built in memory good enough? Or should expandable memory be considered as well?" etc.


Noted Cowon users:

Myself (duh)
mgz
Proin
Psyren (god bless his soul)
and a few others as well.

As a bit of an other side... The things I loved about the S9 were the following:

Buttons on the outside for play/skip/volume. Shit is cash for changing on the fly.
Playing .flac
Drag and Drop
Sound quality
Cost (At 250 back in the day for my 8GB, it was a nice cheaper alternative to iTouches)
Weight (It was light, but felt sturdy. But I also don't mind heavier in general)
Eye catching ("Holy shit, is that a phone?" was not uncommon)
Battery life (Weeks without charging it is awesome)
Easy on the go. (buttons on outside. Don't have to pull it out and touchscreen everything like a retard every few moments)


Flaws:

Playlist function was lacking (but it's not as nice as the ones I used to have on my nano, but I'm having issues with the iphone4 for setting up good playlists nowadays too)
Firmware (seriously, next one, if it aint broke... don't update it)
Proprietary cable (not so much an issue than just the hassle of "if" you lose it)



NOTE: I wasn't sure whether to put this in music or Technology. Prior Cowon threads have been in technology so I chose here. I also want to sort of go beyond just the chatter about the music aspect and into functionality.

I know of the samsung, archos, Sony etc. players. But they don't really impress me at the moment.

[zat0x91]

I was looking for a new media player since I left my Zune HD 32GB in my pants pocket and it went through the washer...  It still works and doesn't look like there's any water stuck underneath the screen, but I'm still worried that it may shit out in the future.  

I do love the interface and how smooth it is, but that isn't without some downfalls for me.  First off, there's no line-out adapter if I wanted to use a portable amp for my headphones (Denon AH-D5000s, soon to be replaced by Ultrasone Pro 900s) it'd sound like shit with the default 3.5mm cable. Second is how the software fucking compresses almost anything you put on it from music, images, and videos so quality is sub-par.  I'm currently using Monster Turbines, but they aren't anything special since I didn't want to spend more than $70 and I got them on sale; I do have buyers remorse since it didn't have enough bass (I'm a basshead; 5 12" subwoofers @ 3k watts still aren't enough for me) for me compared to other cheaper IEMs like the Eternas or Hippo VBs.

So right now, it'll do, but once I get my Ultrasone Pro 900s since they're much easier to carry around and durable, I'll probably buy a portable amp for them and possibly get a new media player since this thread sparked my interest.  Sadly most of my music collection is in V0 MP3's because of how I can't be assed to convert flac to mp3 just to play on my media player.

I've been looking at both the Cowon J3 and X7, but I can't seem to make a decision on which to get.  Money isn't an issue, but more of just overall performance and responsiveness of the touchscreen.

[Lavo_2]

Second is how the software fucking compresses almost anything you put on it from music, images, and videos so quality is sub-par.  

Not to derail, but this is due to Zune's default software settings, these can be disabled. I add and play WMA lossless on my Zune 120 just fine.

Also these Cowons sound interesting. Any external links perchance?

[mgz]

i vote for j3 because everything ive read says its the s9 but better in nearly every way possible. Unless you are retarded and gay (using a mac)

x7 and v5 and the likes suffer from the cowon evil firmware doom evil badness awful mediocrity personified firmware gui for what could and would be awesome players

Your other option is the d2's successor which im not sure is available stateside yet.

I dont remember the name of it but its not the d3

[zat0x91]

Unless you are retarded and gay (using a mac)

lolno.

Yeah, after looking around some more the J3 seems to be the better option if I do happen to replace my Zune HD.

Not to derail, but this is due to Zune's default software settings, these can be disabled. I add and play WMA lossless on my Zune 120 just fine.

Alright thanks, but apparently it didn't compress anything unless it was above a 320kbps MP3, so nothing should of been compressed for my music...  I was more concerned about how it does it to images and there's no real way to stop it; making the images even more low res than the 480x272 screen sucks.

[fohfoh]

If the 3.5mm is a limiting factor, is the bluetooth capable of overcoming that weakness? Or is the technology still not there in terms of that?

J3 vs X7 ~ Main thing that is really eating at me is the battery life. But seriously... 60 hours vs 100... Fuck, 60 hours is a hell of a lot already. I really was leaning towards the X7 prior... but mgz just gave the J3 a fighting chance.

The thing about the issue with the interface though, is that as long as it's not shitting out, I'm usually ok. I spent about an hour or so setting up some playlists on my S9 and after that, I generally only use the interface to turn on and go to certain folders. It's the external buttons after that. For that reason, I just realized the X7 and the J3 are blurred.

I need to double check the footprints of those players. I want one approx S9 size... not a tablet.

mgz, you sure it's not the D3? The D3's alternate name is the Plenue. As far as S9 > J3... the info I saw said both were almost identical to performance... Where'd you hear the S9 > J3?

Link: http://www.cowonglobal.com/ (You'll have to navigate and hop around)

I also forgot to mention I'm considering buying an i9 as well just for my car. So it'll either be J3/i9 or X7/i9 for my purchase.

I've check out a friend's zune. It's ok... but it's really no longer a contender... sort of like Creative.


I had a look at the tech specs on the cowon website and the J3 looks like it's a serious contender. The X7 seems like it might be a little too big. But I'll confirm it once I get a hands on play in Hong Kong.

I personally use Sennheiser HD280 pros. Not the best of course, but it's better than ear cancer or silence while on the go.

@zat0x91: Being a audiophile is fine, but keep in mind that the cowon is still a portable. Performance wise, it won't kill your setup, it's mainly for on the go. Zune vs the S9 was no competition at all. S9 vs P3 wasn't that comparable. The only other player that blew me away 2 years ago on the hands on test was the Sony NWZ 1050B/1060B. For a player that has the same mp3 limitations as Zune and iPods... it fucking blew the competition away with sound quality. Maybe the software was overcompensating... but it sure as hell made the music sound a hell of a lot better. It looked retarded in pics, but it was stunning in real life.

I don't know what other stuff I'll be able to test out in Hong Kong, but the J3 sounds like the most serious contender at the moment.

[mgz]

If the 3.5mm is a limiting factor, is the bluetooth capable of overcoming that weakness? Or is the technology still not there in terms of that?

J3 vs X7 ~ Main thing that is really eating at me is the battery life. But seriously... 60 hours vs 100... Fuck, 60 hours is a hell of a lot already. I really was leaning towards the X7 prior... but mgz just gave the J3 a fighting chance.

The thing about the issue with the interface though, is that as long as it's not shitting out, I'm usually ok. I spent about an hour or so setting up some playlists on my S9 and after that, I generally only use the interface to turn on and go to certain folders. It's the external buttons after that. For that reason, I just realized the X7 and the J3 are blurred.

I need to double check the footprints of those players. I want one approx S9 size... not a tablet.

mgz, you sure it's not the D3? The D3's alternate name is the Plenue. As far as S9 > J3... the info I saw said both were almost identical to performance... Where'd you hear the S9 > J3?

Link: http://www.cowonglobal.com/ (You'll have to navigate and hop around)

I also forgot to mention I'm considering buying an i9 as well just for my car. So it'll either be J3/i9 or X7/i9 for my purchase.

I've check out a friend's zune. It's ok... but it's really no longer a contender... sort of like Creative.


I had a look at the tech specs on the cowon website and the J3 looks like it's a serious contender. The X7 seems like it might be a little too big. But I'll confirm it once I get a hands on play in Hong Kong.

I personally use Sennheiser HD280 pros. Not the best of course, but it's better than ear cancer or silence while on the go.

@zat0x91: Being a audiophile is fine, but keep in mind that the cowon is still a portable. Performance wise, it won't kill your setup, it's mainly for on the go. Zune vs the S9 was no competition at all. S9 vs P3 wasn't that comparable. The only other player that blew me away 2 years ago on the hands on test was the Sony NWZ 1050B/1060B. For a player that has the same mp3 limitations as Zune and iPods... it fucking blew the competition away with sound quality. Maybe the software was overcompensating... but it sure as hell made the music sound a hell of a lot better. It looked retarded in pics, but it was stunning in real life.

I don't know what other stuff I'll be able to test out in Hong Kong, but the J3 sounds like the most serious contender at the moment.

i said j3>s9 not the other way
j3 review http://anythingbutipod.com/2010/11/cowon-j3-review/

and the cowon c2 is what i was talking about
http://product.cowon.com/product/COWONC2/product_page_1.php

it doesnt look like it is out just yet though

[kitamesume]

wow, nice budget for a little thing *envy*, considered using a small laptop for playing music? i meant, something like a palmtop =P

Edit: something like this Razer Switchblade, never mind playing on it, use it differently like, turn it into a jukebox XD
whats funny about the thing is that you can customize the keyboard layout, maybe put [Play][Pause][Stop][FFW][FRW][Next][Back] and so on buttons?  
too bad tho its not on the market yet, maybe something similar is available? except the part that you could actually change your keyboard icons =P

[fohfoh]

Shit there's a lot of Archos tablets here. Haven't had a hands on chance with the J3 yet.

[TorturdChaos]

Just out of curiosity why not another S9?  They have the 32gig ones on Amazon for $230.  You seemed to like that one quite a bit (a side from your firmware issues ).

[kitamesume]

if you really want pure compatibility and fully featured aside from battery life, check the one i suggested and anything similar to that (small laptops or palmtops) you could customize your player and most of the time you`d be able to enjoy your music hassle free(after you finished customizing), include video playback in that too but on a small screen tho. its the perfect mobile juke box i could think of, you could surf on it as well, doubt you could play any titled games tho.

[fohfoh]

Just out of curiosity why not another S9?  They have the 32gig ones on Amazon for $230.  You seemed to like that one quite a bit (a side from your firmware issues ).

Amazon.com has always been a bitch to me, so I don't use them.

NCIX and Newegg are the ones I order such things from, and both didn't stock the S9.


My J3 came in today! After everything, the 32GB ver was 303CAD including GST and shipping.

Why S9 vs J3?
1. Discontinued on the sites I frequent
2. Price difference was small enough I decided to try out the J3
3. If I decide to try and "fix" my S9, 2 of them would be stupid. (Or I might consider getting rid of the S9... if anyone needs parts)

Notes:

I personally prefer the button positions of the S9 over the J3... but the fact I have buttons again = YAY!
FUCK you iPhone4. Your audio days are now pretty much over.

J3 seems snappier in response than the S9. Default "OS" look on S9 IMO was better looking though. J3 looks... pixelated?

Built in speaker on J3 definitely a bonus. Not sure how much I will use it though.

Expandable memory definitely a plus for the J3.

MP3 playback interface looks identical to the S9.

S9 had a sleeker look, was lighter.
J3 has a more solid look, "looks" practical.

S9 has a black cable... J3 has a white one? What's up with that?

*Begins loading music like a madman*

SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!

Shit... forgot to buy an i9 while I was at it... oh well... New toy = happy time!

[mgz]

cable is white because they started standardizing that cable its a korean standard which hopefully means no more new proprietary cable for each new cowon design that comes out which = good.

That also = buy lots of 1 color cable or another to save a couple pennies per cable which probably is a decent savings for them.

[fohfoh]

AFAIK, that cable is standard to all sorts of small electronic devices in Korea. Sort of like what mini USB is to us.

It's not necessarily proprietary, until you go outside of Korea.

Gotta get used to having the buttons on the side rather than the top.


Edit: Kinda miss being able to turn off the screen and lock it by flipping a physical toggle switch instead of double tapping the power button now.

Normal vs Headphones/BBE..... FUCK YES! HUGE! Literally feels like 2D to 4D even on an mp3, let alone flac. Flac is even bigger.

[mgz]

AFAIK, that cable is standard to all sorts of small electronic devices in Korea. Sort of like what mini USB is to us.

It's not necessarily proprietary, until you go outside of Korea.

Gotta get used to having the buttons on the side rather than the top.


Edit: Kinda miss being able to turn off the screen and lock it by flipping a physical toggle switch instead of double tapping the power button now.

Normal vs Headphones/BBE..... FUCK YES! HUGE! Literally feels like 2D to 4D even on an mp3, let alone flac. Flac is even bigger.

i think you misread what i wrote. I said its a korean standard cable which hopefully = no more random ass proprietary things from cowon (every player they have in the past uses different chargers and some had different usb connections and shit. Also different video out cables on each.

[fohfoh]

Er... looks like I did indeed misread.

Man... this thing is awesome. I'm sure my S9 was this good too. I think it has more settings than the S9 though. Better interface too. But man... WAY better than the iphone4

[mgz]

Er... looks like I did indeed misread.

Man... this thing is awesome. I'm sure my S9 was this good too. I think it has more settings than the S9 though. Better interface too. But man... WAY better than the iphone4

and the sound is a teeny bit better technically speaking. I think it has less bass roll off or something along those lines. The anythingbutipod.com review goes over the technical readings using sound measuring devices

[fohfoh]

Er... looks like I did indeed misread.

Man... this thing is awesome. I'm sure my S9 was this good too. I think it has more settings than the S9 though. Better interface too. But man... WAY better than the iphone4

and the sound is a teeny bit better technically speaking. I think it has less bass roll off or something along those lines. The anythingbutipod.com review goes over the technical readings using sound measuring devices

Well, I don't know if the BBE Bass has anything to do with it, but the sound is for sure quite a bit more distinct in the bass section when that is on.

Fuck, forgot to buy the i9... but then again, should I buy the i9 or the X7... Hmmm... I would likely use the i9 or X7 for the car... The X7 seems like a waste for using only in the car vs the i9. I was considering maybe even getting both and gifting the X7 to my dad... the only problem with that is the issues with album info being fucked up at times and I have no patience to teach him how to fix it. I would also die a little bit inside if he would just leave it to the side and not use it.

I gifted him with my old ipod nano years ago. He says he uses it but I've barely seen him use it. Afaik, he uses it until the battery is done and then it sits around for a while since my bro steals the cable here and there for a spare to use to charge his iPhone.

Getting both seems to have pros and cons. i9 for the car seems ok, but I don't know if the X7 would be used by my dad. The other way seems kind of wasteful. An X7 just for the car? 2 i9s seems silly too. Buying both also somehow seems like a waste of money...

Seriously people. You have no idea how exciting the sound on these things are. Zune vs iPods = comparable at the time I tested. (iPhone4 sound vs Zune). A Cowon on normal = the same. Sort of a "Meh" sound. Cowon + BBE = HOLY SHIT. Mp3 OR Flac... doesn't sound right on "normal". I assume BBE Bass was designed for those who like pop music and techno?

Btw mgz, what sound output do you use for your J3? I have used HD555 on it so far. Have yet to test out the HD280pro on it. I don't feel a need to pick up another set of cans yet. Denon does indeed sound like something fun to try out. Too damn bad there's no way for me to pick up a pair in Canada yet (Shipping restrictions and stuff) and I'm not a fan of ebay. Maybe a vac trip to the US one day would be a good time to pick up a pair.