Author Topic: eSata interface + Ext HDD File Arrangement Settings (Read 2251 times)

TifaLockhart · « **on:** April 30, 2011, 03:12:00 AM »

Hi, I've been using usb2.0 for most of my external hdd's and the transfer speed has been bugging me for quite awhile, especially since the size of the hdd's just gets larger by the year. I've been considering for some time now on whether to switch to a esata interface which sadly isn't built into my pc. Hence before I do anything further, I would like to know what sort of hardware I would need (spare slots, power cables etc), what sort of esata interfac

e I should get.

Freedom Kira · « **Reply #1 on:** April 30, 2011, 04:25:34 AM »

The eSata port will be built into the case. It just has a SATA cable that plugs into one of your SATA ports. Much simpler than USB.
So, if you want to put eSATA into your computer, you'd have to get a case that supports it, change your case, and connect the eSATA port to a SATA port.

I take it this means that eSATA devices require external power. I've never actually used one before.

NaRu · « **Reply #2 on:** April 30, 2011, 04:32:14 AM »

You dont have to get a case that has one. You can buy Esata cards too. They do take up a sate port on your mobo. So if you are using it all it wont help you. If you are worried about speed just get USB 3.0 card and get external drives that support it.

USB 2.0 max speed is around 50MB/s
USB 3.0 max speed is around 625MB/s

datora · « **Reply #3 on:** April 30, 2011, 05:21:37 AM »

.
What NaRu said: look into USB 3.0.

Basically, if you have free PCIexpress slot ... esp. @4x ... get an expansion card with 2 or 4 USB 3.0 ports. You can get an external enclosure for an internal hard drive for ~$35 from newegg.com, for example:

Rosewill RX358 RX-358-U3B Full Aluminum Cover, metal tray 3.5" Black USB 3.0 External Enclosure

You can put ANY SATA hard drive into this case and transfer data @USB3 speeds (meaning: use your current external HDs without immediate need to buy new ones).

Not to say that eSATA is bad or anything. Sometimes there are issues with it showing up as a drive, or dropping out of visibility, usually solved by reboot or something equally trivial. I have seen some rare complaints about more hair-pulling glitches, but not sure about credibility of n00bish user or not.

Anyway, for consideration, the USB will be far more universal and pretty much the same transfer speed. It will connect to virtually anyone's USB 2.0 ports on any computer (linux, Mac, etc.) for much wider compatibility (@USB2 speeds) and nice profit when you hit systems w/ USB3.

TifaLockhart · « **Reply #4 on:** April 30, 2011, 07:21:45 AM »

Most of my external harddrives are already using a 3rd party casing which supports usb2.0 and esata. I'm nt sure how usb3.0 works but given the options I thought since esata is comparatively faster and the hdd I intend to get is 2-3tb, esata seems to be the better choice. What I would like to know is whether esata interface supports pci slots since my pciexpress has all been taken up.

Freedom Kira · « **Reply #5 on:** April 30, 2011, 08:41:18 AM »

USB 3.0 vs eSATA makes no difference; the bottleneck is the drive itself. The fastest mechanical hard disk drives can transfer at slightly higher than SATA I speeds (about 1.5Gbps). But, of course, against USB 2.0, either one is a better choice.
That is, of course, assuming that you are not using SSDs as external storage. That's kind of a waste of an SSD.

Also, for USB 3.0, you require hardware that supports it. If your externals can only use USB 2.0 and eSATA, use eSATA.

(By the way, by "case" I meant "computer case," not "hard drive enclosure")

I'm pretty sure that you can find an eSATA expansion that doesn't need a PCI slot, since it really just channels directly to the SATA port on the mobo. That's a better alternative than what I suggested earlier.

Don't think too hard; it's really not that complicated. It's basically connecting a SATA device externally with a slightly different connector.

bork · « **Reply #6 on:** April 30, 2011, 02:24:16 PM »

esata is just a sata connector with a positive connector retention clip - it does not fall out.

http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-eSATA-Plate-Bracket-ESATAPLATE2/dp/tags-on-product/B000NPKGH4

Seen them for about $4 other places.

NaRu · « **Reply #7 on:** April 30, 2011, 02:44:39 PM »

Quote from: Freedom Kira on April 30, 2011, 08:41:18 AM

USB 3.0 vs eSATA makes no difference; the bottleneck is the drive itself. The fastest mechanical hard disk drives can transfer at slightly higher than SATA I speeds (about 1.5Gbps). But, of course, against USB 2.0, either one is a better choice.
That is, of course, assuming that you are not using SSDs as external storage. That's kind of a waste of an SSD.

Also, for USB 3.0, you require hardware that supports it. If your externals can only use USB 2.0 and eSATA, use eSATA.

(By the way, by "case" I meant "computer case," not "hard drive enclosure")

I'm pretty sure that you can find an eSATA expansion that doesn't need a PCI slot, since it really just channels directly to the SATA port on the mobo. That's a better alternative than what I suggested earlier.

Don't think too hard; it's really not that complicated. It's basically connecting a SATA device externally with a slightly different connector.

Im assuming you are using your external drives as storage and not using it for software. As long speeds doesn't cause video play back to skip then the speed shouldn't matter as much.

1TB HDD has a speed around 70MB/s to 100MB/s
2TB HDD has a speed around 80MB/s to 120MB/s
3TB HDD has a speed around 85MB/s to 125MB/s

HDD is still the bottleneck but only compared to the current interface being used. HDDs now do more then double then IDE and just about double of USB 2.0. If you are hitting 50MB/s on USB 2.0 then the interface is the bottleneck. If there any piece of hardware that I know it would be HDDs. I have spend a lot of time researching on speed and performance of HDDs to improve my system.

Another thing if you are using more then one external drive that is sharing the same USB port. USB ports on the mobo do split into two ports so if you are using 2 drives at once to write to the speed will be cut in half for each drive.

bork · « **Reply #8 on:** April 30, 2011, 05:15:22 PM »

USB 2.0 can push about 480Mb/s and for a single hard drive, it hits about half the read/write speed of the faster hard drives currently out.

To get some higher speed into a external storage device, look into a USB 3.0 or a SATA 3Gb/6Gb connection. To support these type of connection speed, you motherboard will need it have it implemented or buy a add-on card with at least an available x4 PCIe slot (SATA 3Gb could live with a x2 slot.) At least a i5 with 4GB might be needed if you want to push the interface to its full speed.

kitamesume · « **Reply #9 on:** April 30, 2011, 05:47:06 PM »

if you're not in a hurry, you wouldnt mind 2-5MB/s speed of file transfer, if you're in a hurry, then just hardplug your HDD internally and be done with it. other than that, just fetch an eSata adapter and utilize that enclosure with an eSata support, dont ask, just do it! even a cup of coffee is more expensive than that adapter.... theres alot of types of them, theres a card type(uses one pcie or pci slot), theres a screw in slot type(it uses one of your slots behind the case, if you use low profile video cards, you`d know what i mean), theres a floppy slot type too(uses your floppy drive slot) and etc.

fohfoh · « **Reply #10 on:** April 30, 2011, 10:29:13 PM »

The Esata interface thingy I purchased for about 20 bucks on newegg because the archaic piece I'm using for storage and my HTPC ran out of Sata slots.

It works well. Seriously for sure faster than usb. Issue being that you can't hot swap it.

TifaLockhart · « **Reply #11 on:** April 30, 2011, 11:13:32 PM »

Since i'm on the topic of External Hard drives, there has also been something which has always eluded me. One thing about external hard drives is, i like to arrange the files (not in alphabetical order) or any of the default arrangements but in order of which i have watched and havent watched, whether they are ova's, movies or tv series and the order of the download. The thing is whenever i swap the usb slots to use for the external hard drive, the arrangements gets jumbled up and i'll have to arrange them back again. This does not happen if i do not change the usb slots used for that specific hard drive. The drawback is my external hard drive cant be ported around or if i would like to swap the 2.0usb for a esata cable, i fear the files would get mixed up again.
For a long time i have looked for a solution and have been wondering if it's possible to save the folder preferences of the files in the external hard drives into the drive itself rather than rely on the OS's folder preference settings on remembering the folder's position by the usb ports.

Basically, i'm trying to look for a way to save the folder view cache on my external hard drive so it will always remember the way i arrange my files in my hard disk regardless of where i open my external drive on.

Lupin · « **Reply #12 on:** May 01, 2011, 01:52:24 PM »

Quote from: fohfoh on April 30, 2011, 10:29:13 PM

It works well. Seriously for sure faster than usb. Issue being that you can't hot swap it.

You need motherboard support for hotplugging.

Quote from: TifaLockhart on April 30, 2011, 11:13:32 PM

Since i'm on the topic of External Hard drives, there has also been something which has always eluded me. One thing about external hard drives is, i like to arrange the files (not in alphabetical order) or any of the default arrangements but in order of which i have watched and havent watched, whether they are ova's, movies or tv series and the order of the download. The thing is whenever i swap the usb slots to use for the external hard drive, the arrangements gets jumbled up and i'll have to arrange them back again. This does not happen if i do not change the usb slots used for that specific hard drive. The drawback is my external hard drive cant be ported around or if i would like to swap the 2.0usb for a esata cable, i fear the files would get mixed up again.
For a long time i have looked for a solution and have been wondering if it's possible to save the folder preferences of the files in the external hard drives into the drive itself rather than rely on the OS's folder preference settings on remembering the folder's position by the usb ports.

Basically, i'm trying to look for a way to save the folder view cache on my external hard drive so it will always remember the way i arrange my files in my hard disk regardless of where i open my external drive on.

Save a text file containing the filenames in the order you desire in the root of your drive. Read the help of the command dir for the correct combination of parameters to get the list you want. Then dump the output of that command to a text file whenever you use it (dir <parameters> <location> > order.txt). You can try saving the line on a batchfile so you only need to execute the script to generate the list.

TifaLockhart · « **Reply #13 on:** May 01, 2011, 09:29:12 PM »

Quote from: Lupin on May 01, 2011, 01:52:24 PM

Quote from: fohfoh on April 30, 2011, 10:29:13 PM
It works well. Seriously for sure faster than usb. Issue being that you can't hot swap it.
You need motherboard support for hotplugging.

Quote from: TifaLockhart on April 30, 2011, 11:13:32 PM
Since i'm on the topic of External Hard drives, there has also been something which has always eluded me. One thing about external hard drives is, i like to arrange the files (not in alphabetical order) or any of the default arrangements but in order of which i have watched and havent watched, whether they are ova's, movies or tv series and the order of the download. The thing is whenever i swap the usb slots to use for the external hard drive, the arrangements gets jumbled up and i'll have to arrange them back again. This does not happen if i do not change the usb slots used for that specific hard drive. The drawback is my external hard drive cant be ported around or if i would like to swap the 2.0usb for a esata cable, i fear the files would get mixed up again.
For a long time i have looked for a solution and have been wondering if it's possible to save the folder preferences of the files in the external hard drives into the drive itself rather than rely on the OS's folder preference settings on remembering the folder's position by the usb ports.

Basically, i'm trying to look for a way to save the folder view cache on my external hard drive so it will always remember the way i arrange my files in my hard disk regardless of where i open my external drive on.
Save a text file containing the filenames in the order you desire in the root of your drive. Read the help of the command dir for the correct combination of parameters to get the list you want. Then dump the output of that command to a text file whenever you use it (dir <parameters> <location> > order.txt). You can try saving the line on a batchfile so you only need to execute the script to generate the list.

From what i can comprehend, i can do the ordering of my folders by creating a text document with the ordering of my files in it saved to the root of the directory with the aid of some Dir command parameters (which i have no clue what they are or how to derive them), i can also do sort of a script to allow it to auto generate the ordering of new files being added into the drive?

Freedom Kira · « **Reply #14 on:** May 01, 2011, 10:12:22 PM »

Not exactly. AFAIK, Lupin's suggestion is to use the Dir command, which lists the contents of a directory, to create a text dump of the contents of a directory in the desired order (default is alphabetic, but you should be able to tweak it a bit using parameters). In short, use the command to create a text file containing a list of the files/folders you have in a directory.

Then, you can just open this text file and see your files in the desired order.

The script is just something you can run by double-clicking it, which makes your life easier by saving you from typing out the whole command every time you want to create the text dump.

So, if it wasn't clear enough, this won't do anything to actually reorder your files. It'll just give you an alternative way to view your files, in which the order of the files is changed to your liking.

Lupin · « **Reply #15 on:** May 02, 2011, 12:52:55 AM »

Quote from: Freedom Kira on May 01, 2011, 10:12:22 PM

Not exactly. AFAIK, Lupin's suggestion is to use the Dir command, which lists the contents of a directory, to create a text dump of the contents of a directory in the desired order (default is alphabetic, but you should be able to tweak it a bit using parameters). In short, use the command to create a text file containing a list of the files/folders you have in a directory.

Then, you can just open this text file and see your files in the desired order.

The script is just something you can run by double-clicking it, which makes your life easier by saving you from typing out the whole command every time you want to create the text dump.

So, if it wasn't clear enough, this won't do anything to actually reorder your files. It'll just give you an alternative way to view your files, in which the order of the files is changed to your liking.

This is correct.

AFAIK windows saves the folder settings in the registry for a particular drive and port. when the drive is connected to a different port, either it generates a new registry entry or overwrites the old one.

Possible solutions I can think of:
1. ~~my earlier post.~~ screw it. I misunderstand what you want. while it can help with organizing your stuff, it won't do what you wanted
2. take a screenshot of the folder. lol
3. revise your naming convention for files/folders.

# 3 is the easiest to do.

TifaLockhart · « **Reply #16 on:** May 02, 2011, 03:03:51 AM »

Hmm, any 3rd party software which does this? Something which memorizes the order of your files? I kinda have a COD so when stuff gets jumbled up, it kinda makes me want to pull my hair out, esp. when there are hundreds of folders.

I've seen how System Restore/Shadow Copies of the system can actually bring you back to a period in time where you saved right down till the positioning of the files, thing is it probably will be taking alot of redundant space seeing as it will be actually making restoring copies of the drive itself.

Freedom Kira · « **Reply #17 on:** May 02, 2011, 03:44:35 AM »

The simplest (yet maybe the most tedious) way is probably Lupin's third suggestion. Rename all your folders to start with "Anime - new" or "Anime - old" or "Miscellaneous" or whatever else. Then, have your system order files by name or type by default. Heck, it should do that by default anyway.

TifaLockhart · « **Reply #18 on:** May 02, 2011, 12:53:04 PM »

Quote from: Freedom Kira on May 02, 2011, 03:44:35 AM

The simplest (yet maybe the most tedious) way is probably Lupin's third suggestion. Rename all your folders to start with "Anime - new" or "Anime - old" or "Miscellaneous" or whatever else. Then, have your system order files by name or type by default. Heck, it should do that by default anyway.

Yes, but default just isnt the way it's suppose to be, take for eg. some episodes in a series are named in such away that the episodes does not arrange from 1-12 when "arrange by name". I like to know which is the series i watched in chronological order as well which the default auto arrange settings does not provide for, i do keep a list of it in chronological order however, i prefer for both the actual and data to be one and the same instead of being different, esp. when i'm looking for what to watch.
Its fine and perfect if the files are actually created by me, giving me the opportunity to name them however way i want, but when files are downloaded, i tend to respect the name it comes with as well as seeding issues hence i keep them in their original form.

It's an issue I've been putting up with up till now so I'm not really complaining, but lamenting against the cruel idea that such a simple thing as organizing digital data according to individual needs can't be perform hassle free when it should have been something which comes intuitively.

kitamesume · « **Reply #19 on:** May 02, 2011, 01:48:17 PM »

do this, copy the file into a different folder and delete the old copy, move the new copy back, it should now have a creation date of that time you copied it. now try and rightclick your folder and arrange OR group them by date created, it should sort things out to oldest to newest of date or vice versa.

if the option of sorting it via "date created" is missing, press "more" just below the dropbox and find the checkbox "date created", check it and rerightclick the folder and sort it by date created.

now this is a fascinating trick to make it more unique, change your clock on your lower right into your desired date and do the above.

this type of trick is permanent, unless you replace the files with newer or older copies, even if you transfer the storage device into a different pc, as long as you sort it by date created on the rightclick dropbox then it should sort things instantly. moving the files too doesnt change the date created so its safe to move it around.

i came up with this trick just a few minutes ago, i do sort files via date created so i`d knew when i downloaded them but forcefully changing the date created is... you know =P