Author Topic: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge  (Read 1945 times)

Offline NaRu

  • Member
  • Posts: 15225
Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« on: May 05, 2011, 05:19:17 PM »
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/intel-22nm-3-d-tri-gate-ivy-bridge,12700.html

This is awesome news from intel. This is suppose to be in the new generation CPUs coming out this year

Offline Lupin

  • Member
  • Posts: 2169
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #1 on: May 05, 2011, 05:41:50 PM »
How many years is Intel ahead now of the competition in terms of fab process? 2? 3?

Offline newy

  • Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 6782
  • Yack...Deculture!
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #2 on: May 05, 2011, 05:51:01 PM »
They said once the 3d transistors are out they are about 3 years ahead.

Too bad I haven't found an article that describes how 3d transistors work. *takes a look at the link* Maybe there's more info.
EDIT: That YT video was a good demonstration. Gotta keep looking.


If Bulldozer isn't going to be <choose your adjective> AMD is going to have problems.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 05:58:21 PM by newy »

I knew nothing of the outside world. I was just a frog in a well.

Online kitamesume

  • Member
  • Posts: 7224
  • Death is pleasure, Living is torment.
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #3 on: May 05, 2011, 05:58:01 PM »
nope they dont and will not explain, you wouldnt explain how you made your food right? you`d just show it and let people taste it and on the contrary your "food" is still in the production phase so you`d make your customers wait. but the part of tasting always ends up giving away the secret which is similar to giving away how THAT transistor works.

in short, i`m saying they wont be releasing the actual use for the transistor until they officially release the unit.

Edit: but they did mention some actual improvements over the 2D transistors, which are 37% more performance at lower voltages, 50% less energy consumption.

we`ll be seeing i3s doing 10-30watts with the performance of an i5 sooner or later =P
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 06:07:01 PM by kitamesume »

Haruhi Dance | EMO | OLD SETs | ^ I know how u feel | Click sig to Enlarge

Offline kureshii

  • Former Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 4485
  • May typeset edited light novels if asked nicely.
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #4 on: May 05, 2011, 06:02:09 PM »
Roughly ~1.5 process gaps, since AMD just released Llano on TSMC’s 40nm, and is about to release Bulldozer on GF’s 32nm. (If we take the major nodes at 45nm, 32nm, 22nm, from Intel’s tick-tock cadence. Although note that the foundries have their own proper definition of major- and half-node processes.) TSMC and GF are already working on their 20nm/22nm process, but they haven’t any chips to show for it yet, judging by the lack of news on that front. No doubt each fab is already hard at work researching the next few nodes after that, but I won’t speculate further without updated official announcements.

The new gate transistor isn't the actual exciting news though; after all, who really cared about the hi-k process Intel used on 45nm? What’s scary is that Intel already has working chips with these new transistors, as demonstrated in this video (assuming the video description is accurate).

That’s right; Intel pretty much has LGA2011 and Ivy Bridge ready for release (or close to it), and they’re just delaying them to avoid cannibalising their Lynnfield/Sandy-Bridge offerings. Of course, it’s not like they can snap their fingers and say “let’s roll Ivy Bridge out now,” but I doubt it’ll take a year for them to carry out validation, tape-out and mass production (Ivy Bridge is tentatively slated for Q2 2012).

Even with Bulldozer’s release imminent, it seems AMD is still on shaky ground; they certainly won’t have much leeway to rest on the laurels of their Bulldozer microarch, even if it manages to match Sandy Bridge performance. Not to mention that AMD is entirely reliant on GF/TSMC’s progress with the 22nm process. Next year might be another interesting year as well, when Komodo goes up against Ivy Bridge (probably not as interesting as Sandy Bridge vs Bulldozer, since next year will be the year of node-shrinks and not new architectures).

For a layman explanation of this tri-gate transistor, take a look at Anandtech’s article.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 06:16:47 PM by kureshii »

Offline Lupin

  • Member
  • Posts: 2169
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2011, 06:16:17 PM »
nope they dont and will not explain, you wouldnt explain how you made your food right? you`d just show it and let people taste it and on the contrary your "food" is still in the production phase so you`d make your customers wait. but the part of tasting always ends up giving away the secret which is similar to giving away how THAT transistor works.

in short, i`m saying they wont be releasing the actual use for the transistor until they officially release the unit.
Actual use? Do you even know what you are saying? It's a transistor. Even if the configuration differs from the ones currently used in production, it's still a transistor so it will behave and be used like one.

There are several IEEE papers about the topic published around 10 years ago. It been produced in small quantities before.

Anand did a simple explanation of how what it does and how it affects future fabrication: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4313/intel-announces-first-22nm-3d-trigate-transistors-shipping-in-2h-2011

What intel won't share is how to mass produce it.

Online kitamesume

  • Member
  • Posts: 7224
  • Death is pleasure, Living is torment.
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2011, 06:26:40 PM »
no i meant what actual effects and difference other than those improvements the Tri-Gate over the old ones is.

Edit: benches for example >,> if how much difference clock for clock and clock per voltage does it make.
« Last Edit: May 05, 2011, 06:31:44 PM by kitamesume »

Haruhi Dance | EMO | OLD SETs | ^ I know how u feel | Click sig to Enlarge

Offline kureshii

  • Former Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 4485
  • May typeset edited light novels if asked nicely.
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2011, 06:35:33 PM »
kitamesume, details were already revealed at the press conference about a couple of days ago. Just enough to generate some marketing buzz, but not enough for people to go ahead and start manufacturing their own 22nm tri-gate transistors yet from that information, of course (as Lupin mentioned). And have you read the Anandtech article yet? The main points are already summarised quite nicely there.

Lupin, if you would just shift to the IRC channel, I can abandon the tech forums forever ;x

Offline Lupin

  • Member
  • Posts: 2169
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2011, 08:10:18 PM »
no i meant what actual effects and difference other than those improvements the Tri-Gate over the old ones is.

Edit: benches for example >,> if how much difference clock for clock and clock per voltage does it make.
If Ivy bridge is just a change in the transistor used, then you can say how much trigates improved the performance. But it isn't. It's also a process shrink. Unless you can isolate the improvements done by each change, then you can't accurately determine it.

My guess is that the gains will be bigger than what Westmere was to Nehalem. By how much? No clue

For people interested in the technical stuff: http://www.intel.com/technology/silicon/tri-gate.htm?iid=tech_silicon_pipeline+body_transistors

Lupin, if you would just shift to the IRC channel, I can abandon the tech forums forever ;x
I was in the channel a couple of days ago. You were sleeping :D

I'll try to remember adding #bakabt back to my autojoin list. The last time it was there was before I got my account banned :D

Offline TMRNetShark

  • Member
  • Posts: 4134
  • I thumps up my own youtube comments.
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #9 on: May 05, 2011, 08:19:46 PM »
Good... goood... this is all working perfectly into my plan!

Oh yeah, my plan is to some day become a full on cyborg... to become one, I need Moore's Law to grow exponentially faster! I expect by 2045 that I can become fully cyberized and all thanks to corporations like Intel that will make it possible.

Offline Osmo

  • Member
  • Posts: 988
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2011, 08:30:01 PM »
I was about to rip up my i5 2500k in rage. but then it's towards the end of the year.
You think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted it.
I was born in it, built in it.
I didn't see the light until I was a man, by then, it was nothing but blinding.
The shadows betray you because they belong to me. - Bane

Offline newy

  • Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 6782
  • Yack...Deculture!
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #11 on: May 05, 2011, 09:02:38 PM »
nope they dont and will not explain[...]
Eh, what? Of course the process of producing that kind of transistor will be explained. How else, do you think, will aspiring microtechnologists come to be without knowing stuff like that? Maybe not Ivy Bridge itself but the principles behind it >_> Who would ever talk about company secrets...

I knew nothing of the outside world. I was just a frog in a well.

Offline mgz

  • Box Fansubs
  • Member
  • Posts: 10562
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #12 on: May 05, 2011, 10:58:10 PM »
Good... goood... this is all working perfectly into my plan!

Oh yeah, my plan is to some day become a full on cyborg... to become one, I need Moore's Law to grow exponentially faster! I expect by 2045 that I can become fully cyberized and all thanks to corporations like Intel that will make it possible.
cuz your gay and want to have hardcore sex with men more often then your weak human body allows you to so your banking on intel

Offline TMRNetShark

  • Member
  • Posts: 4134
  • I thumps up my own youtube comments.
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #13 on: May 06, 2011, 12:19:41 AM »
Good... goood... this is all working perfectly into my plan!

Oh yeah, my plan is to some day become a full on cyborg... to become one, I need Moore's Law to grow exponentially faster! I expect by 2045 that I can become fully cyberized and all thanks to corporations like Intel that will make it possible.
cuz your gay and want to have hardcore sex with men more often then your weak human body allows you to so your banking on intel

Yeah? Well you know what? Oh wait I just lost interest in what you had to say...  ::)

ON TOPIC: This will get Intel ahead of the game, but I'm wondering when this technology will hit GPUs and start lowering the amount of heat that are emitted from computers or any other technology that uses transistors. This will definitely increase usage life of CPUs... my question is, why didn't they think of this before? It seems like a simple enough concept, but I guess the technology to make such small circuits hadn't caught up yet.

Offline Lupin

  • Member
  • Posts: 2169
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #14 on: May 06, 2011, 03:22:24 AM »
ON TOPIC: This will get Intel ahead of the game
Intel is already ahead of the game, process-wise. From what I have read, they're ahead of the competition by at least 2 years. This announcement only extended that lead.
when this technology will hit GPUs and start lowering the amount of heat that are emitted from computers or any other technology that uses transistors.
when TSMC or Global Foundries gets to implement it themselves.
my question is, why didn't they think of this before? It seems like a simple enough concept, but I guess the technology to make such small circuits hadn't caught up yet.
There are papers about the topic more than a decade ago. Initial designs used by those papers came from another one from 20 years ago. The technology to build them was available for years. It just wasn't worth the cost to mass produce them until now.

Offline newy

  • Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 6782
  • Yack...Deculture!
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #15 on: May 06, 2011, 03:33:44 AM »
Good... goood... this is all working perfectly into my plan!

Oh yeah, my plan is to some day become a full on cyborg... to become one, I need Moore's Law to grow exponentially faster! I expect by 2045 that I can become fully cyberized and all thanks to corporations like Intel that will make it possible.
cuz your gay and want to have hardcore sex with men more often then your weak human body allows you to so your banking on intel

Yeah? Well you know what? Oh wait I just lost interest in what you had to say...  ::)

ON TOPIC: This will get Intel ahead of the game, but I'm wondering when this technology will hit GPUs and start lowering the amount of heat that are emitted from computers or any other technology that uses transistors. This will definitely increase usage life of CPUs... my question is, why didn't they think of this before? It seems like a simple enough concept, but I guess the technology to make such small circuits hadn't caught up yet.

This shows that you have no idea how chip/semi conductor products are made... I advise you to shut up...

What I still remember from my apprenticeship (simplified):

- Wafer (silicon e.g.)
- dope it to create a n- or p-layer (oven process)
- mask that layer
- check for errors in the mask (generally almost every structure to be checked, how many on a 21" wafer? No idea, too many to count for a human)
- etch that masked layer (that's the important step in production)
- next layer
- rinse and repeat the steps above

And now add that new 3d structure to that process and see how complicated it's going to be. Keypoints are the mask and the etching.

EDIT: If metals are needed somewhere in the middle, add another step of phyiscal deposition (sputtering), or an insulating layer/structure by oxidizing in an oven.

EDIT: This does not include the SMD (or old THD) production.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2011, 11:52:52 AM by newy »

I knew nothing of the outside world. I was just a frog in a well.

Offline NaRu

  • Member
  • Posts: 15225
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #16 on: May 06, 2011, 06:06:59 AM »
my question is, why didn't they think of this before? 

They been working on this idea for 10 years.

Offline kureshii

  • Former Staff
  • Member
  • Posts: 4485
  • May typeset edited light novels if asked nicely.
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #17 on: May 06, 2011, 11:32:00 AM »
http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT050511195446&p=2

Quote from: RWT
As it stands today, Intel is roughly 18 months ahead of IBM, Global Foundries, TSMC and Samsung on their process technology.

To answer Lupin’s question in the 2nd post.

Offline nstgc

  • Member
  • Posts: 7758
    • http://www.justfuckinggoogleit.com
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #18 on: May 06, 2011, 07:55:23 PM »
Nice. In terms of features and structure AMD seems to be better, but I guess you can't compete with Intel's vastly superior fabrication technology.  Now if one one of them would licences their tech to the other. Then we would be in for a real treat.

Offline Lupin

  • Member
  • Posts: 2169
Re: Intel Makes 22nm 3-D Tri-Gate Tech for Ivy Bridge
« Reply #19 on: May 07, 2011, 04:19:53 AM »
http://www.realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT050511195446&p=2

Quote from: RWT
As it stands today, Intel is roughly 18 months ahead of IBM, Global Foundries, TSMC and Samsung on their process technology.

To answer Lupin’s question in the 2nd post.

18 months :o

Having design and fabrication in one place really works well especially when money is not a concern