Author Topic: SSD  (Read 3304 times)

Offline vuzedome

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Re: SSD
« Reply #40 on: May 14, 2011, 02:58:03 AM »
Also wondering about Intel's "Smart Response Technology".
I find that very interesting and would like to see Intel implement it.
They already have, first tests are out here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4329/intel-z68-chipset-smart-response-technology-ssd-caching-review
Results are varying, in best case scenario it's as fast as an SSD and in worst case as slow as a mechanical drive. On average results are somewhere in between so it's a nice boost but it's not the same performance as a pure SSD setup.
Those guys are using Maximized cache, which I don't think is a very good idea.
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Offline Lonewolf5460

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Re: SSD
« Reply #41 on: May 14, 2011, 03:22:55 AM »
Yah I do not get the point I would rather get a cheaper board and spring for a 40/64 gig ssd, would work out to about the same.

Offline tomoya-kun

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Re: SSD
« Reply #42 on: May 14, 2011, 06:31:26 PM »
I have an intel SSD and it sure is a lot faster than a spinning drive.


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Offline trexx

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Re: SSD
« Reply #43 on: May 19, 2011, 03:38:45 PM »
Recently switched to an SSD and it makes such a noticeable improvement I'll probably never go back.

Offline Tegh

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Re: SSD
« Reply #44 on: May 24, 2011, 10:33:14 AM »
I'm with Lone when it comes to SSD.  Great for a boot drive, but essentially useless for storage.  Though the new 2400 SF SSD's are looking sexy as hell can't beat 6GB/s.  (They will eventually, but as of right now it's the top dog.)  Not too mention that it's not OVERLY pricey, yeah i could get 4TB's for the price in HHD, but it's still 120GB at those speeds.  Rather incredible, just to see where the technology will get to.
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Offline Sosseres

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Re: SSD
« Reply #45 on: May 25, 2011, 12:31:03 PM »
An interesting thing to note is that most people don't need over 1TB in storage space as things are right now. They could probably even manage just fine with 200GB or so, perhaps less. Making a 120 GB SSD solution viable for the entire system solution. If I didn't torrent anything and really considered what I put on my HDD I could do with 120 GB, rendering that I could get 4TB for the same price meaningless. (I could just get a slow drive at a tenth of the cost though ^^)

Could even run an entire computer of of RAM as things are now. 6 GB of RAM and a linux solution without any of the flashy things. I couldn't do it, but if all you do is surf and so on it would most likely be enough. (Can pass 20 GB of RAM, but the prices are starting to get bad at that point.)
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 12:36:11 PM by Sosseres »

Offline Stsin

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Re: SSD
« Reply #46 on: May 25, 2011, 12:41:10 PM »
My friend got one of the OCZ IBIS SSDs.  It sure is nice.  If going SSD, might as well go all the way: Raid 0 with HSDL to bypass IO bottlenecks.  Right?

Well, will still get bottlenecks when used with other drives.  And the price per GB will stay expensive with that setup.  Don't they drop in performance when written upon too much?  Even suggesting to use a different drive for files that constantly get updated...browser cache for example.  But then doesn't that defeat the purpose making the system more responsive?  And if want to use with games, will be forced to decide which gets the special treatment, because you can't put all of them on it.  Games are getting fatter each year.  If going to say not use it with games, then that devalues the benefits of using an SSD for me and many others.

While it would be nice as an OS drive, the time it does save is the amount you wouldn't have noticed if haven't experienced it.  It's not like we are loading off of a floppy.  Nor do we feel that we are suffering without one.  It would be the same as telling everyone to get 8gigs+ memory, for that time when things are snappier because it's already in the cache.

Still using WD Caviar Blacks for my internals bought years ago.  No maintenance or special setup required.  Never had to swap games/programs due to limited space.  Install and forget.  And that has saved more time, than an SSD would ever do.

For storage, I suggest the Samsung spinpoint 5400 drives.  Pretty nice for 2TB averaging over 100MB/s transfer, at only $64 each.  As an anime/movie collector, space is still more valuable with my money.

Offline bloody000

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Re: SSD
« Reply #47 on: May 26, 2011, 10:20:33 AM »


It's an upgrade. It's new. It's expensive. It's very fast. It's silent.

Why? Same reason why one would pay for a high performance video card or CPU but let them sit idle most of the time. It's there when you need it.
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Offline Tatsujin

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Re: SSD
« Reply #48 on: May 26, 2011, 11:33:40 AM »


It's an upgrade. It's new. It's expensive. It's very fast. It's silent.

Why? Same reason why one would pay for a high performance video card or CPU but let them sit idle most of the time. It's there when you need it.
Great answer.

I'll still wait for the price/GB to come down.


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Offline Stsin

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Re: SSD
« Reply #49 on: May 27, 2011, 05:30:11 AM »


It's an upgrade. It's new. It's expensive. It's very fast. It's silent.

Why? Same reason why one would pay for a high performance video card or CPU but let them sit idle most of the time. It's there when you need it.

But you can not really say the benefits of a faster CPU/GPU are comparable to an SSD.  My point is that it's not.  The quicker access is not what most feel a need for, unlike a better CPU and GPU.

With the prices as they are now, and the extra configuration and maintenance required, it's more comparable to installing a water cooling system.  This is also an upgrade, expensive, faster (for OCing), and silent.  It's easier now with better made kits, just like SSDs have gotten better.  Though may feel SOL if spent the money on the earlier versions.  The need for one is overblown and has a ways to go before becoming a consumer standard.

But I do think they would be worth having for a laptop, if concerned with weight and battery longevity...a cheap slower one would do.

Offline per

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Re: SSD
« Reply #50 on: May 27, 2011, 05:38:28 AM »
But you can not really say the benefits of a faster CPU/GPU are comparable to an SSD.  My point is that it's not.  The quicker access is not what most feel a need for, unlike a better CPU and GPU.

The difference is actually much bigger than a new CPU or GPU. Really.

As an example, before I installed an SSD booting my computer into linux took about 20 seconds + BIOS time.
Afterwards it takes about 2s + BIOS time, and launching applications is more or less instant.

The same is true when starting applications in Windows. Before the SSD there was a rather noticeable delay, afterwards
everything is much faster.

Offline bloody000

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Re: SSD
« Reply #51 on: May 27, 2011, 05:51:40 AM »


It's an upgrade. It's new. It's expensive. It's very fast. It's silent.

Why? Same reason why one would pay for a high performance video card or CPU but let them sit idle most of the time. It's there when you need it.

But you can not really say the benefits of a faster CPU/GPU are comparable to an SSD.  My point is that it's not.  The quicker access is not what most feel a need for, unlike a better CPU and GPU.



Nor is a GTX 590 over a GTX 580 over a GTX 570 or a 6990 over 6970 over 6950 in this day and age of console ports and "good enough" computing.


Quote
With the prices as they are now, and the extra configuration and maintenance required, it's more comparable to installing a water cooling system.  This is also an upgrade, expensive, faster (for OCing), and silent.  It's easier now with better made kits, just like SSDs have gotten better.  Though may feel SOL if spent the money on the earlier versions.  The need for one is overblown and has a ways to go before becoming a consumer standard.

But I do think they would be worth having for a laptop, if concerned with weight and battery longevity...a cheap slower one would do.

many "extra configuration and maintenance" guides on the internet are on the over-cautious(read:paranoid) side.
I excluded the SSD from indexing, all other drives are indexed for fast search(many HDD users turned off indexing completely which is dumb TBH).
I changed the superfectch service to manual.
These are the only tweaks I have done for my Intel X-25M 34nm 80GB.
There are several other tweaks which I have performed even before I got my SSD, like disabling 8.3 filenames on NTFS, putting the page file on a separate physical drive, turning off defrag scheduling, etc.
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Offline Mcgreag

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Re: SSD
« Reply #52 on: May 27, 2011, 06:34:06 AM »
Some of the tweaks you mentioned, specifically turning off super fetch and degfrag are done automatically if you just run the Windows Experience Index assessment.
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Offline Stsin

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Re: SSD
« Reply #53 on: May 27, 2011, 06:54:02 AM »
But you can not really say the benefits of a faster CPU/GPU are comparable to an SSD.  My point is that it's not.  The quicker access is not what most feel a need for, unlike a better CPU and GPU.

The difference is actually much bigger than a new CPU or GPU. Really.

As an example, before I installed an SSD booting my computer into linux took about 20 seconds + BIOS time.
Afterwards it takes about 2s + BIOS time, and launching applications is more or less instant.

The same is true when starting applications in Windows. Before the SSD there was a rather noticeable delay, afterwards
everything is much faster.
But not many care for boot times.  Especially when many of us do it less than once per week.  I think it's funny that my friend sometimes reboots his SSD because it can be too fast causing one or two of his startups to not load properly.  Sure he can reconfigure them, but he rather just reboot.

As for apps loading, I still say the time required without one is not a concern...it's just the load time.  Hasn't been since 7200 rpm drives became standard.

More I think about it, what I see is that it will lead to programs becoming less inefficient.  People will stop demanding MS for more efficient load times with their OS.  Web browers will go back to loading more bloat and not fine tuned like Chrome.  When SSDs become standard, we'll be fine with that.  Just as we are fine now with having a multicore processor with atleast 2 gigs ram to use an OS.



It's an upgrade. It's new. It's expensive. It's very fast. It's silent.

Why? Same reason why one would pay for a high performance video card or CPU but let them sit idle most of the time. It's there when you need it.

But you can not really say the benefits of a faster CPU/GPU are comparable to an SSD.  My point is that it's not.  The quicker access is not what most feel a need for, unlike a better CPU and GPU.



Nor is a GTX 590 over a GTX 580 over a GTX 570 or a 6990 over 6970 over 6950 in this day and age of console ports and "good enough" computing.

Forget console ports.  I'm an MMO player and there's never enough FPS, even with WoW.  The latest MMOs engines demand more than older GPUs.  Now a 6950 with a bios upgrade to 6970 would be good enough.  Even playing Rift with a HD5770 is agonizing.  Especially after seeing it with crossfired 6970's.  The newer games, like Witcher 2, and older games like Civ IV makes a huge noticeable difference with a GPU upgrade than an SSD loading Chrome.


Quote
With the prices as they are now, and the extra configuration and maintenance required, it's more comparable to installing a water cooling system.  This is also an upgrade, expensive, faster (for OCing), and silent.  It's easier now with better made kits, just like SSDs have gotten better.  Though may feel SOL if spent the money on the earlier versions.  The need for one is overblown and has a ways to go before becoming a consumer standard.

But I do think they would be worth having for a laptop, if concerned with weight and battery longevity...a cheap slower one would do.

many "extra configuration and maintenance" guides on the internet are on the over-cautious(read:paranoid) side.
I excluded the SSD from indexing, all other drives are indexed for fast search(many HDD users turned off indexing completely which is dumb TBH).
I changed the superfectch service to manual.
These are the only tweaks I have done for my Intel X-25M 34nm 80GB.
There are several other tweaks which I have performed even before I got my SSD, like disabling 8.3 filenames on NTFS, putting the page file on a separate physical drive, turning off defrag scheduling, etc.

I can understand why some turn off indexing when it's service starts to hog the CPU, when it's supposed to stay low priority in the background..sometim es reinitializing the whole process and never completing.  All due to it trying to index a a not fully supported file.  Sure, you can set which to ignore, but most users don't or want to bother.  Or can wait for next MS update if it becomes really common...as another problem file shows up.  Then there is moving huge number of files which is slowed due to the indexing service trying to re-index at the same time.  I feel that it's odd to use the service, while ignoring the SSD.  Btw, I keep mine on, though it does need much more work. 

As for tweaks, what about temp files that get written often?  Browser cache, thumbnails, folder views, or any prog that keeps and updated database and config?  Sure, Trim has solved many of the issues of preventing the SSD to slow to a crawl with many writes and deletes.  But not good enough to also use it for the page file?  When the pagefile is what you'd want the fastest access times?  And how can you use the OS and Apps on only 80GB?

I'm not saying there aren't benefits with an SSD, I just think it's small in comparison to other upgrades one can spend their money on.

Offline bloody000

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Re: SSD
« Reply #54 on: May 27, 2011, 06:58:04 AM »
Some of the tweaks you mentioned, specifically turning off super fetch and degfrag are done automatically if you just run the Windows Experience Index assessment.

This reminds me of the scheduled weekly WinSAT run. That made me want to murder some MS employees.
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Offline bloody000

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Re: SSD
« Reply #55 on: May 27, 2011, 07:15:58 AM »
As for tweaks, what about temp files that get written often?  Browser cache, thumbnails, folder views, or any prog that keeps and updated database and config?  Sure, Trim has solved many of the issues of preventing the SSD to slow to a crawl with many writes and deletes.  But not good enough to also use it for the page file?  When the pagefile is what you'd want the fastest access times?  And how can you use the OS and Apps on only 80GB?

I'm not saying there aren't benefits with an SSD, I just think it's small in comparison to other upgrades one can spend their money on.

Exaggerations spread by Internet. I have not experienced performance degradation after over a year. This is highly dependent on firmware for older trim-less drives, I can't speak for them. But now it's not an issue unless you RAID them.

My pagefile is never actually used due to 8GiB of RAM, I kept it in case some programs freak out.

42.1 GiB Free at the moment.

Of course, going back to spinning drives won't kill me(Arch on my 6401AALS). But it's annoying, very annoying.
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Offline x5ga

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Re: SSD
« Reply #56 on: May 27, 2011, 04:00:50 PM »
And how can you use the OS and Apps on only 80GB?

dunno... even 60GB is more than enough for me -__- I mean, it's just the OS and the apps... the ISOs and the music and the videos are on different disks. And I actually have a lot of apps installed.

Offline Mcgreag

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Re: SSD
« Reply #57 on: May 27, 2011, 07:18:17 PM »

Nor is a GTX 590 over a GTX 580 over a GTX 570 or a 6990 over 6970 over 6950 in this day and age of console ports and "good enough" computing.

Forget console ports.  I'm an MMO player and there's never enough FPS, even with WoW.  The latest MMOs engines demand more than older GPUs.  Now a 6950 with a bios upgrade to 6970 would be good enough.  Even playing Rift with a HD5770 is agonizing.  Especially after seeing it with crossfired 6970's.  The newer games, like Witcher 2, and older games like Civ IV makes a huge noticeable difference with a GPU upgrade than an SSD loading Chrome.
[/quote]
So much faster load times in your MMO of choice is not important to you? Not just starting it up but also when switching between different areas.
Here are an example for WoW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47dt-y27eYk 18 vs 59 sec.
SSDs are not just for booting and starting chrome, almost anything you do on your computer requires frequent disk access and is speed up by having an SSD instead.
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Offline Stsin

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Re: SSD
« Reply #58 on: May 27, 2011, 11:00:45 PM »
Forget console ports.  I'm an MMO player and there's never enough FPS, even with WoW.  The latest MMOs engines demand more than older GPUs.  Now a 6950 with a bios upgrade to 6970 would be good enough.  Even playing Rift with a HD5770 is agonizing.  Especially after seeing it with crossfired 6970's.  The newer games, like Witcher 2, and older games like Civ IV makes a huge noticeable difference with a GPU upgrade than an SSD loading Chrome.
So much faster load times in your MMO of choice is not important to you? Not just starting it up but also when switching between different areas.
Here are an example for WoW: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=47dt-y27eYk 18 vs 59 sec.

Again, I never said there was no benefit.   Just that it's not as much compared to other upgrades.

Faster load or better gameplay?  Rather have my money spent on a better GPU than on an SSD.

SSDs are not just for booting and starting chrome, almost anything you do on your computer requires frequent disk access and is speed up by having an SSD instead.
Currently they are just for booting and starting chrome.  Because you can't put anything you do on your computer on SSDs.  That is without spending a huge fortune.

Not going to be able to put many games on 80GB SSD.  My WoW currently takes up 31 GB (without the screencaps).  And the upcoming MMOs will be even more with the extra cutscenes and such.  Just having the OS and a small number of apps on SSD isn't that exciting to me for the amount it will cost.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2011, 11:12:05 PM by Stsin »

Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: SSD
« Reply #59 on: May 27, 2011, 11:27:32 PM »
Your stubbornness is rather... flabbergasting.

Have you tried using an SSD yet? And by SSD I mean a decent one, not one of those crappy ones that run slower than a decent HDD. If not, please shut up, at least about the performance comparisons to other computer components, because you don't seem to understand what the greatest bottleneck in a PC is, and how much an SSD defeats that bottleneck.

The complaints about price and size are fair arguments, but that's about it.