Needing a keyboard

[xShadow]

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Recently, I got this keyboard I am using at the moment at a thrift store. So far, it's been working decently, but there are a few things that bother me quite a bit about it... namely that it can't have more than about 2-3 keys held down at one time without ignoring anything you press afterward. I must also note that this thing says it's designed for Windows 98 and NT, so it's very difficult to find working drivers so I can actually use its media keys. Naturally, this gets in my way quite a bit when playing Wolfenstein (among other things). I can't even strafe right sometimes. >_>

Nifty design, though.
http://www.recycledgoods.com/products/HP-5184-4708-USB-Keyboard-SK-2506U.html
This is kind of what it looks like, in case anyone is interested.

So, what I'm looking for:
1. At least like 6 or so keys held down at once without stopping up. This is some kind of ninja setting, because it's never in the specs...
2. A few media hotkeys (mainly, I want to be able to skip tracks during gameplay, so a SKIP button is ABSOLUTELY necessary).
3. Cheap (~25 and under). I'm not willing to shell out anywhere close to 50 dollars for a keyboard when I don't need EVERYTHING it has to offer. There are plenty of cheap media keyboards out there, I just need advice on them.
4. Responds correctly to very fast typing. Sometimes, this keyboard screws up my spaces, which tells me that there are multiple things lagging behind here.
5. Wired. Wireless mice have a purpose because sometimes the cord gets in the way. Keyboards don't need to be so mobile... Plus I have bad luck with them eventually wearing out.
6. Fully featured (as in, I want the number pad).

tl;dr: I don't care if the keys are illuminated. I never look while typing anyway, nor do I need to know where my WASD with special colors. Nothing fancy. Just a no-frills keyboard that I can game with, and change tracks while gaming. These specs are nothing special.

I'm pretty thrifty, so even buying a cheap keyboard has me deliberating and gathering advice; I am willing to be flexible with the price a little, but that only lasts till ~35 dollars. After that, it's a no go.

What kind of stuff I have in mind right now:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/758719-REG/Logitech_920_002719_K200_Wired_Keyboard.html
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/560059-REG/Microsoft_J93_00001_Digital_Media_USB_Keyboard.html <- Leaning towards this (FREE SHIPPING =O).
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823334002

Anyone had any experiences with the above, or anything similar?

As usual, thanks.

http://forums.bakabt.me/index.php?topic=30366.msg4708721#msg4708721

[kureshii]

If you want n-key rollover you’ll have to look for a PS/2 keyboard (note that PS/2 does not guarantee NKRO!); you simply cannot get NKRO over USB. There’re some exceptions, but nothing in your price range AFAIK.

[xShadow]

Interesting read. What that basically tells me is that I'm going to have to take chances, unless I can find out particular specs of a keyboard.

However, that being said, I think I was just unlucky. This keyboard in particular, after using some of that testing software, it appears that what happens is that SHIFT+W blocks D, and SHIFT+D blocks W. In other words, my particular keyboard happened to have the shit set up JUST so that WASD has problems.

So, I guess it would now be more accurate to say I don't want the keys commonly used for gaming to experience this problem. How's that?

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They're being rather cheap by not using diodes, though. Diodes are pretty damn cheap. Specifically, the N4148 diodes that I've had to use for a certain lab class are pretty cheap to buy in bulk. Corporations can also probably pull some strings to get them. As long as you're not using a zener (why?), I doubt you'll have much of a problem with reverse current, regardless of the diode. Of course, I don't know what the voltage and current conditions inside of the keyboard are like, though I doubt it would be enough to break even an N4148. But then again, placing diodes would probably require design changes and whatnot to incorporate them too.

I'm a bit sketch on how they use the diodes, though. I know they only permit current in one direction, but using that specific grid they gave as an example (Microsoft article), how would they determine which ones went in which direction...? Would you just make a divide in between every 4 key square arrangements? But that would lead to more conflicts. I suppose one other design issue is that you need to set up a potential difference at every key to at least trigger the diode's forward current setup?

But all of that is treading off topic. That, and I still have too many nightmares about PN, PNPs, and MOS and MOSFETs from a class I just got done with.

kureshii, what would you suggest, then?

[kureshii]

I don't know. I've never expected very much out of keyboards below $25, so whenever I do shop for something in that range, my expectation list goes something like 1) Works decently, 2) Has a sane key layout. Typically I just ignore the budget and go for a mechanical keyboard, hehe.

For slightly more featured budget keyboards, I'd just go with a standard Logitech or Microsoft keyboard. Those should come with at least 3-year warranty, IIRC.

[xShadow]

Sounds fair. I'm willing to bump up the budget a bit, like I said, but the problem is that there's really no telling whether I need to. A much cheaper one would work if they just wired it to not get in the way of gaming. =\

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/560059-REG/Microsoft_J93_00001_Digital_Media_USB_Keyboard.html

^ I'm still quite interested in this one. If anyone has it and can tell me how the WASD performance is, I would be very interested.

On the other hand, I found this little sucker after a bit of digging in Newegg:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823107010

It's on the PS/2 setup. Of course like you said that doesn't mean a terribly large amount, but it's an interesting choice.

[xShadow]

Well, case solved. I went to the thrift store today:
http://www.monstermarketplace.com/new-and-used-computer-equipment/hp-sk-2560-p-n-5187-0341-ps-2-internet-multimedia-keyboard
Got one of these for 2 dollars (yes, I know, it's f'n OLD).

It doesn't have the whole N-Key thing, but it does at least do WASD well. You can't do all four of WASD at once, but you can hold up to three of them down with no conflicts, which is exactly what I was looking for. The entire thing is plug and play, too. Unlike my previous HP, it the volume up, skip track, etc. all worked right out of the box (well if there was a box). It's a pretty nice for the price, and it's certainly exactly what I was looking for.

THE THRIFT STORE IS F'N AWESOME.

[vuzedome]

What a bargain, $2.
Looks like something I can jam on stepmania and other rhythm games.

[x5ga]

If you want n-key rollover you’ll have to look for a PS/2 keyboard (note that PS/2 does not guarantee NKRO!); you simply cannot get NKRO over USB. There’re some exceptions, but nothing in your price range AFAIK.

that article was excellent. using aqua's test there showed me that my antique "crappy" PS/2 Logitech Internet Pro keyboard (≈15$ or cheaper) has better than expected results (6-7-8KRO, passes gaming button combinations, and basically rulz). I'll think twice before changing it now. Unless it dies on me, I won't. It's lived for 6 years so far and it works extremely well.

[xShadow]

I don't mean to do a huge necro, but I didn't want to make a new topic for this.

Basically, I was looking through Newegg's Black Friday sale and noticed this little gem (well to me it's a gem):
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823109191&cm_mmc=BF2011_listing-_-63-_-N82E16823109191&nm_mc=BF2011_listing

Thirty bucks. I was rather enthralled with simply looking at that price tag for a little while.

Then, I promptly ordered it.

Just a heads up to you BakaBT folks. I'm generally not an impulse buyer, but to me that was irresistible.

[AnimeJanai]

xShadow, did you compare the Sidewinder X4 keyboard to the current Sidewinder X6 keyboard and its accessories before buying?

[xShadow]

Yes, I actually researched both options a while ago, along with the Logitech offering.

Why do you think the current Sidewinder X6 is the original (pre Black Friday) price of the X4? Because (from the reviews I have read) it sucks.

Just look at the reviews yourself.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823109063

Order it by lowest first. It's what I do for every product I research. Makes it very easy to pick out fatal errors.

Also, according to this particular review:

Pros: Backlighting is awesome, macro keys are great, absolutely wonderful touch to it.

Cons: Ghosting. Oh my, the ghosting. I didn't sit there and figure out which keys were the "major" offenders - google "sidewinder x6 ghosting" and you'll get tons of hits with this problem. I spent < 1 hour gaming and it's back in the box already.

Also, the Escape key is slid over to the left putting the F1-F4 keys in an inaccurate offset. I could adjust, but it was a major annoyance as I use F1-F4 a lot in the game I play.

Other Thoughts: Such a shame. A wonderful keyboard except for the ghosting.

It has ghosting. For a gaming keyboard, that's automatically a dealbreaker. According to everything I've read about the X4, it has no ghosting, and you can press 26 keys at once.

There's no reason to pay more for a newer product that is worse than the old one. And seriously, it's 30 bucks for a decked out gaming keyboard (Half the price of the X6, while being better). You better bet your ass I'm hopping on.

[nstgc]

Don't be cheap. Do yourself a favor and get a Black Widow. I own a Das Keyboard, and the price tag hurt (130 USD on sale), but I don't regret it. The one I have has Cherry MX Brown switches, the BW has Blue switches which are better for typing. The BW also has media keys (something I seriously wish mine has). New egg curently has them for way more than they were going for earlier this year, but I saw them for $60 on NE over the summer and $75 at my local Best Buy.

 If you type a lot, get a good keyboard. Mechancial keyboards are extremely responsive and just about all of them have 6kro. Mine has a PS/2 adapter so is nkro

HEre are some resources:

http://www.overclock.net/t/491752/mechanical-keyboard-guide
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/mechanical-switch-keyboard,2955.html

The first is more exhaustive the the Tom's page, and has several listed keyboards. Again, i'm loving my keyboard, even with the heavy price tag.

[edit] didn't notice this post. Sorry. Oh well.

Well, case solved. I went to the thrift store today:
http://www.monstermarketplace.com/new-and-used-computer-equipment/hp-sk-2560-p-n-5187-0341-ps-2-internet-multimedia-keyboard
Got one of these for 2 dollars (yes, I know, it's f'n OLD).

Don't be disin' this board bro, its a fuckin' beast yo!

No really, I loved that thing. I owned one and loved it. Its not quite as nice as my current one, but bang/buck -- it can't be beat. I wish I had seen that before buying this. Would have bought it instead and saved some (some = lots of) money. This keyboard, my Das Keyboard is better to type on, but the lack of media keys is a annoying.

After about 10 years of use, a glass of orange juice destroyed it...finally (seriously, I swear a forensics team could spend years trying to isolate all the shit that was on and in that thing).

[xShadow]

I believe I've already said that I ordered the X4 in my last post...

I don't see why I would spend 3-4x more for something (putting aside the fact that I've already ordered something) just because it's mechanical. The X4 has no ghosting, 26 key rollover and pretty much all the features I could ask for (yes, including media keys), for a very low price tag.

If it really does make the difference for you, then that's fine. I'm already quite used to typing on normal keyboards.

[AnimeJanai]

What gets to me is seeing people play games using their laptop's keyboard.  I wonder if the laptop keys would hold up when people pound on a key due to excitement or stress.

[vuzedome]

The reviews aren't being kind to the Black Widow, and only those who don't really understand mechanical keyboards are praising it so I doubt it is wise to go for one.

[AnimeJanai]

I prefer the softer conductive rubber keyboards than the mechanical ones.  Not only is the amount of travel less, for touch typists, the softer touch is more comfortable over the long run.  Now, if mechanical keyboard users are sentimentally remembering the IBM Selectric mechanical style keyboards, yes, those were nice, but they now belong to the dinosaur generation.  Nowadays, touch typing along with keyboards that have a soft endpoint for touch typists, and keyboards that are customized for typing by secretaries as opposed to engineers like me seem to be the thing going on. 

[nstgc]

The thing that makes my mechanical keyboard so much easier on my fingers is that I don't have to completely depress the keys to get them to register. The amount of force required to register a keystroke is actually much less. This is my first mechanical keyboard and I love it.