Overclocking (Questions)

[HiddenJumper]

Okay, well I'm pretty new to OCing. I pretty knowledgable about computers and about building them but I've never really overclocked a system. Ran well with stock settings with whatever I had. However, I feel with my current rig, I'm not getting as much out of it as I feel I could be getting so I wanted to try overclocking the system for two reasons:

1) More bang for the buck

2) Experience in overclocking.

Now, to begin, I need information such as: what settings need to be tweaked? What numbers should I be looking for in the manuals I got with my CPU and Mobo to make sure I don't burn a hole in the board? What is standard? What do I need to watch out for?

I know there's more questions to be asked I just can't think of 'em. Where should I begin?

Now these are the specs I'm currently running in the system:

Core i5 (running at about 2.8 ghz) (not sandy bridge)
GIGABYTE P55A UD3 Rev. 2 (the board itself says Rev 2, but the Gigabyte software says I have Rev 1. Which one do I trust? I would assume what it says on the board itself).
G.SKILL 4 gigs 1333 mhz (don't want to restart the system to check my timings)
Arctic Freezer Pro CPU Fan (forgot the rev number)
Thermaltake Armor+ Case

Any other info you guys need let me know. Where do I start? 

[Lupin]

Any other info you guys need let me know. Where do I start? 

Start by not asking here. There are more knowledgeable forums out there about overclocking. Asking about it here is a waste of time. You can also ask around in #bakabt. You'd get better answers on the IRC channel than in here.

http://www.overclock.net/intel-cpus/
http://hardforum.com/forumdisplay.php?f=2
http://forums.anandtech.com/forumdisplay.php?f=5
http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/forumdisplay.php?59-Intel

Read some of the stickies on those sites. They provide more info than any answer you'll get here.

[NaRu]

I don't recommend overclocking for you because you won't see a difference from everyday computing. You may see 10 FPS increase in some games but you wont increase your over all performance more then 10 percent. Plus you have stock cooling and you won't be able to go very far.

[vuzedome]

I don't recommend overclocking for you because you won't see a difference from everyday computing. You may see 10 FPS increase in some games but you wont increase your over all performance more then 10 percent. Plus you have stock cooling and you won't be able to go very far.

Actually HiddenJumper is using an after market CPU cooler, and to be honest OC does give improved performance in everyday usage, unless you're used to things being fast and all which I'm pretty sure NaRu has grown accustomed to.

[flyawave]

Well fist thing's first, we need to establish what'll fuck shit up.

Overclocking is quite safe so long as you don't overvolt like a maniac. The problem is you might well HAVE to overvolt certain components because they become unstable running at X clockspeed without the voltage to back it up.

Normally, the first thing to clock up is the CPU multiplier, but this will most likely already be at the highest possible multiplier. FSB overclocking comes next. Bear in mind this will clock everything up, so your weakest component will fail first. Usually the RAM. These failures are not dangerous at all, the system will just refuse to boot, but you can obvs still go to the BIOS.

So your RAM just failed lets say. You have four options.
1. Lower the FSB clockspeed
2. Lower the RAM multiplier
3. Use less strict RAM timings
4. OVERVOLT

So working under the assumption that you clocked up till it failed to boot, you could just clock it down from the failure point. This will likely be unstable, and your OS (Assuming Windows) will probably crash. This is also ok. Now we need to see what's causing the issue. Either your RAM is still unstable or your CPU is. If it's the CPU, you can only overvolt, lower the multiplier or decrease clockspeed again. If it's still the RAM, then you can do one of those four^.

The way I've seen it been done is push to fail without overvolting, then slightly increase the voltage to make it stable. This is arguably an inefficient method, but I've never seen someone do it another way.

Your rig looks like you could bump up the FSB such that your CPU clocks at 3GHz without any overvolting and still maintain stability. Try that and tell us what happens!

[x5ga]

^this. and:

1) Clean the dust inside the case.
2) Remember that cranking up the CPU/FSB/RAM frequency will increase the temperature linearly, while cranking up the voltages will increase it by ^2.
3) If you have a fail PSU, expect your OC'd system to crash when you least expect it.
4) Just because the system POSTs and the OS loads doesn't make your system stable, better run a burn-in test or something for 12h at least after you're happy with your settings.
5) RAM:FSB ratios other than 1:1 tend to suck, so keep that in mind too (use CPUID to check this ratio if you're not sure, BIOS settings might be confusing).
6) Most newer Intel CPUs can be overclocked A LOT (not with the stock cooler though).
7) Adjusting the RAM timings/freq/voltage will take a lot of trial and error, depending on your RAM model. Most are not made for overclocking so you'll have to experiment a lot with them.
if smoke comes out, panic.

[kitamesume]

something to think about:
reference stock speed 2,000Mhz(2Ghz)
[2,020~2,200Mhz] 1%-10% overclock(bump) - hardly gives anything, might as well run on stock.
[2,200~2,600Mhz] 10%-30% overclock(mild) - decent performance boost, not so much taxing for the components.
[2,600~3,000Mhz] 30%-50% overclock(medium) - high performance boost, quite a stress for the components.
[3,000~3,500Mhz] 50%-75% overclock(heavy) - fantastic performance boost, stress are all over the place for the components.
[3,500~4,000+Mhz] 75%-100+% overclock(enthusiast) - monstrosity performance boost, you'll need some serious cooling on your components.

note: buying an aftermarket cooler is highly suggested, even at stock speed. i suggest to overclock below medium first, so no serious damage can occur on your rig.

[HiddenJumper]

Thanks for all in the information.

To clear things up, as I posted in the first post (and as vuzedome states), I do use an aftermarket fan. I truly dislike stock fans, so for my rigs I never use em. I also perform monthly preventive maintence on the system, so dust is not a worry. I figure I would benefit from OCing because I do alot of multi-tasking, video and image editting (photoshop and premiere) with some after effects. Plus I play alot of games.

I use Windows 7 64-bit, my memory timings are 9-9-9-24 (they should be set to 7-7-7-21, don't know why I never set them). I also use a Geforce 460 vid card.

I tried overclocking by setting my blck to 170 x 21 (approx 3.7 ghz) with 1.28 volt (default volt on the board) and the system reboots with the message saying that it failed to boot properly and that the computer has fail safes to reset back to default if it fails to boot in overclock. I also tried it with 160 blck and didn't work either. DId work at 145 x 21 (about 3.1 ghz) using default volt. The default clock speed was about 2.8 to 2.9 ghz. So not much change.

I was reading the links that was posted and from what I gather I have to set the volts up a bit to stablize the system?

[Micharus]

Thanks for all in the information.

To clear things up, as I posted in the first post (and as vuzedome states), I do use an aftermarket fan. I truly dislike stock fans, so for my rigs I never use em. I also perform monthly preventive maintence on the system, so dust is not a worry. I figure I would benefit from OCing because I do alot of multi-tasking, video and image editting (photoshop and premiere) with some after effects. Plus I play alot of games.

I use Windows 7 64-bit, my memory timings are 9-9-9-24 (they should be set to 7-7-7-21, don't know why I never set them). I also use a Geforce 460 vid card.

I tried overclocking by setting my blck to 170 x 21 (approx 3.7 ghz) with 1.28 volt (default volt on the board) and the system reboots with the message saying that it failed to boot properly and that the computer has fail safes to reset back to default if it fails to boot in overclock. I also tried it with 160 blck and didn't work either. DId work at 145 x 21 (about 3.1 ghz) using default volt. The default clock speed was about 2.8 to 2.9 ghz. So not much change.

I was reading the links that was posted and from what I gather I have to set the volts up a bit to stablize the system?

Please, for your computers safety and your sanity, go to a forum where they do these things on a daily basis.

One such place is Atomic Forums, where they actually have a sub-forum DEDICATED to Overclocking and cooling advice.

I would really hate to see a post where you say, 'This is coming to you from an internet cafe because I blew my PC up' or something along that line.

[kitamesume]

set BLCK 150x21 and volts to 1.300v, check your memory speed and timings.

now try setting BLCK to 175x16 and volts to 1.300v, check your memory speed and timings.

if its stable, try increasing the multiplier by 1 each try.

if not, set blck to 150x21 and volts to 1.400v, reduce voltage by 0.010v each try until it crashes. check your memory speed and timings. after crash roll back the voltage by 0.010v.
increase blck by 5. if it crashes, increase voltage by 0.010v.

PS: voltage should not exceed 1.400v as intel says on paper with i7-760 VID Voltage Range 0.6500V-1.400V.

[HiddenJumper]

Just want to point out, I don't care if the system blows, because it would give me more reason to update to the Sandy Bridge (which is what I really wanted, even though I'm sure the Bulldozer will be much better for my uses, when its fully out on the market).

I have all the proper tools to properly test the system and benchmark it before I settle on a setting I like (and one that doesn't send . This is the technology section, whats the harm in talking about overclocking? Afraid some idiot 5000 miles away who screws up will try to blame you guys?  

Thanks kitame, I try it out when I get home from work.

[kitamesume]

hmmm try this first instead.

set blck and multiplier to their default, 133x21? and reduce voltage by 0.010v until it crashes. roll back by 0.010v until it stabilizes.

now try setting blck to 140x21. if it crashes, increase voltage by 0.010v until it stabilizes.

now try to increase blck by 5. if it crashes, increase voltage by 0.010v until it stabilizes.

shortcut: set blck to 140x20(blck 5x20 is effectively 100mhz) and voltage to 1.400v, increase blck by 5 until it crashes. roll back blck by two steps, reduce voltage to 1.390v. if it crashes, reduce blck by 5 until it stabilizes, reduce voltage to 1.380v. repeat it until you reach a voltage of 1.350v.

mission: 1st step is to check how low the voltage can go on stock settings. 2nd step is increasing the blck while supporting it by increasing the voltage by 0.010v.
aim: getting the max overclock at 1.400v, and getting the max overclock at 1.350v, final overclocks should be set to 100mhz below max at 1.350v.

normally you should reach 3.5ghz on the i# series quite easily.

critical note: ram is tied to blck so you should check both the speed and timings for every changes you make.
PS: voltage should not exceed 1.400v as intel says on paper with i7-760 VID Voltage Range 0.6500V-1.400V.

some tip when buying a processor. overclock it to its limits, if it starts crashing even with just a 10% overclock then its pretty much defective so use its warranty and get an exchange. with an exception of the sandy bridge i3.

[Lupin]

This is the technology section, whats the harm in talking about overclocking? Afraid some idiot 5000 miles away who screws up will try to blame you guys?  

You'll get better answers from a forum that specializes on them rather a general tech section where people pretends to be experts on the subject.

Read the posts made so far. Lots of tips but nobody even tried to explain what each setting does, how it should be modified, how other settings affect it. What you get are posts that say do this, do that. You may get a successful overclock following those instructions but did you understand what you just did?

If you have a known ailment, would you go to a general practitioner or someone who specializes on that ailment?

some tip when buying a processor. overclock it to its limits, if it starts crashing even with just a 10% overclock then its pretty much defective so use its warranty and get an exchange. with an exception of the sandy bridge i3.

Processors are rated as such because it is expected to run at those settings. Failure to overclock it isn't a sign of being defective. Overclocking, especially when voltage increments are involved shortens the lifespan of your processor. Anyone following bad advice from posters like this poser above is dumb.

[HiddenJumper]

What Ive been doing is looking at what is being said and using the other sites as reference material when following instructions, so I know what it does when I mess with it. Plus I also look at what changed when I change a setting.

Anyhow I'll update in a couple hours when I have access to it (g/f is using the system right now for TF2  )

While your point is valid Lupin, however I feel even on specialized forums, there are posers as well. Its an unavoidable fact on the internet, and since my trust level is higher for people on Bakabt (since I've been here longer and I know who the regulars are) versus a site I just started at.

[kitamesume]

the reason why lupin kept insisting for you to get someone else as a tutor is because theres hardly, if not none, any enthusiast overclocker here.

i myself only overclock by up to 40%, 50+% is scary, tried it once and saw my temps past 70c.

[HiddenJumper]

I can understand that. I'm not trying to go overboard with overclocking, I just needed some help with my questions. Its like when you first arrive at your first day of your new job, gonna need someone to kinda show you around and show you the tools you have available.

Anyhow I did some testing with the settings and found it works at 155 x 21 (3.25) with 1.2v for vcore. However I can't raise the blck up any higher than that without the mobo throwing a fit. Funny enough on boot of the system, even before entering bios, the mobo says im running at 3.4 ghz at 155x22, even though when I enter the bios it specifically states 155x21.

My ram's mem multi is set to 10 with timings at 7-7-7-21 set for both 2 gig sticks. Dram volt is still at default.

I currently have my computer set back to near stock settings while I reference some more material and read through more input.

Max I was able to go with vcore set to 1.4v was approx 165x21 (about 3.5 ghz) while still being stable and not getting the boot failure message.

[kitamesume]

hoh, i think i found out your problem, try disabling turbo boost if its enabled, its known to mess up your overclock because it ramps up the multiplier. plus try bumping northbridge voltage by a little bit.

and do try balancing the cpu multiplier with the blck, like 175x20 to get 3.5ghz, just adjust it bit by bit, sometimes playing with the multiplier makes your system pretty much more stable.

oh and whats your max cpu multiplier?  i assume its 25 because turbo boost can climb up to 3.33ghz with 133blck. if so then try setting it to 140x25(3.5ghz). but if not, i`m seeing reviews saying they could push up to x22(x26 with turbo boost) then try setting it to 140x22 and leave turbo boost enabled, stress the PC to 100% and check the final overclocks. should be 3.64Ghz. leave the CPU voltage to 1.350v.

edit: oh and try this on for size, set blck and multi to 200x10, and set ram multi to 8. if it boots and stable then we`d know the mobo isn't the problem.

[HiddenJumper]

My max multiplier for the cpu is 22.

I put the settings to 200x10 with multi of 8 for the ram, with turbo boost off and ram profile set to standard: boots fine.

Boots fine with 175x20 with my ram timings back to default 9-9-9-24, with the extreme profile off. Bumped the timings to 7-7-7-21, where i want them, but keeping the profile at standard still, boots fine as well.

Bumped the NB volt up from 1.1v to 1.170v. Tried to stay as low as possible to reduce the stress.

Currently at 175x20 (3.5 ghz) with mem multi of 8 (7-7-7-21 timings). Turbo boost is off. BIOS reads the CPU temp at about 40 average. Will actually stress test this when I get settled on majority of settings I want. Not sure if I want to keep it at 3.5 or just lower it a bit to reduce unneeded stress. Depends on how much of a performance change (if any).

vCore is set at auto currently. Main MIT status page shows my vCore at 1.312v atm.

[NaRu]

The highest I will go with your CPU is 3.8Ghz.

[HiddenJumper]

No surprise there. Thanks for the info Naru. Changed the blck to 166x20 to get 3.33 ghz. Stress testing now with Prime95.

So far looks like the cores temps get up to about 70 to 73 under max load thus far. If it changes much from there ill be sure to post new numbers. Gonna run memtest86+ after this.