Author Topic: Making NAS  (Read 2199 times)

Offline halfelite

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #20 on: June 14, 2011, 09:22:47 PM »
Freedom Kira, but buying CHEAP really CHEAP Raid Card may give problems with hdd's ?! Like I wrote before - I had problem with hdd's on my Raid controller.
and yes, that was failed attempt, sorry sir

Edit: I found something new for me, http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816116097
How dose it work, what it need to work ?! Is that pluged in SAS slot, so SAS slot = 4 SATA's ?

Almost any raid card hates samsung spinpoints. yes 1 sas channel can hold 4 sata discs

Offline Lupin

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #21 on: June 14, 2011, 09:50:13 PM »
Although I agree with you on the subject of atom vs amd-e There is one slight fault while the amd-e is better at video processing it actually takes a hit on disc access speed. Doing baseline rar unrar benchmarks the atom will come out on top. If you were building in htpc or something to watch videos and mild gaming I would say go with the AMD-E as thats what its good at. If you are building a file server I would lean more towards the atom. Now granted the benchmark difference is not huge its still a difference.  I have actually been eyeing the ASUS E35M1-I running the AMD E-350 for my next pc build
Anand disagrees with your rar benchmarks: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4023/the-brazos-performance-preview-amd-e350-benchmarked/3
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 09:53:07 PM by Lupin »

Offline halfelite

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #22 on: June 14, 2011, 10:13:12 PM »
Although I agree with you on the subject of atom vs amd-e There is one slight fault while the amd-e is better at video processing it actually takes a hit on disc access speed. Doing baseline rar unrar benchmarks the atom will come out on top. If you were building in htpc or something to watch videos and mild gaming I would say go with the AMD-E as thats what its good at. If you are building a file server I would lean more towards the atom. Now granted the benchmark difference is not huge its still a difference.  I have actually been eyeing the ASUS E35M1-I running the AMD E-350 for my next pc build
Anand disagrees with your rar benchmarks: http://www.anandtech.com/show/4023/the-brazos-performance-preview-amd-e350-benchmarked/3

What a lopsided comparison why would they not compare the counter part lets put an old 510 atom vs the newer amd-e 350. make a better comparison at least use the atom525 But i will do my benches again just to double check. i also used winrar 4.0 which changed almost all the algorithms from older versions
« Last Edit: June 14, 2011, 10:19:28 PM by halfelite »

Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #23 on: June 15, 2011, 06:42:27 AM »
Almost any raid card hates samsung spinpoints. yes 1 sas channel can hold 4 sata discs

I must have gotten really lucky then, because Samsung Spinpoints are exactly what I'm using.

Offline sapsa

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2011, 02:02:43 PM »
WD Green 2TB EARS have problems in raid too - i just heard that

Thanks for more replays :)
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Offline Lupin

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #25 on: June 15, 2011, 03:40:46 PM »
What a lopsided comparison why would they not compare the counter part lets put an old 510 atom vs the newer amd-e 350. make a better comparison at least use the atom525 But i will do my benches again just to double check. i also used winrar 4.0 which changed almost all the algorithms from older versions
ok: http://www.fudzilla.com/reviews/item/22841-amd-e350-e-350-intel-atom-d525-ion2/22841-amd-e350-e-350-intel-atom-d525-ion2?start=3 Note that the atom 525 is clocked higher. Benchmark uses winrar 4.0 as well
« Last Edit: June 15, 2011, 03:42:20 PM by Lupin »

Offline halfelite

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #26 on: June 16, 2011, 12:09:39 AM »
Almost any raid card hates samsung spinpoints. yes 1 sas channel can hold 4 sata discs

I must have gotten really lucky then, because Samsung Spinpoints are exactly what I'm using.

some people do. I have always ran areca cards and some people have ran Samsung drives no problems while others have tried and they drop out of the raid set all the time.

Online kitamesume

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #27 on: June 16, 2011, 12:19:56 AM »
ummm, i think this topic is getting a bit derailed, the main topic was "to make a cheap NAS" if someone forgot.

a bit of a good news, theres always the option of using the USB isntead :D doubt that'll have issues recognizing drives.

plus theres the software raid too.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 12:23:46 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #28 on: June 16, 2011, 02:53:04 AM »
some people do. I have always ran areca cards and some people have ran Samsung drives no problems while others have tried and they drop out of the raid set all the time.

I only used the RAID card to increase the number of SATA ports on the board. The actual RAID was done through mdadm. Maybe that's why.

ummm, i think this topic is getting a bit derailed, the main topic was "to make a cheap NAS" if someone forgot.

In case you forgot, RAID is moderately important to NAS units and extremely valuable if you don't regularly back up your data. And performance vs. cost of processors is very important when picking what to use.

Offline fohfoh

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #29 on: June 16, 2011, 03:39:34 AM »
Slight re-derailing...

Does it make more sense to turn an old PC into an NAS or just to build it from scratch with cheap parts? I mean for instance, an older tower with a P4 (upgrading the proc and other components if necessary?) vs setting up a cheap dual core AMD as suggested by someone on the earlier page.

Reason I'm asking is more just a theoretical question... Since I see to recall reading quite a bit about many users having P4 HTPCs.

Would it make more sense to turn the P4 into an NAS and build a new HTPC vs Keep P4 as HTPC and build a NAS? 

The builds I was looking at were all dual cores and stuff like that.
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Online kitamesume

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #30 on: June 16, 2011, 04:03:48 AM »
true at that, but i did mention that theres the option of software raid, which eliminates the need of buying a raid card though losing some performance.

@fohfoh
either is fine, but if you're planning on buying a much better system than the P4 then P4 to NAS and new one to HTPC is a much better move.

right now, according to the shops that i`ve been seeing around.

desktop:
intel's cheapest dual core is the pentium E5700 or the Celeron E3300, pricing under 60$.
Intel's cheapest single core is the Celeron 430, pricing under 40$.
AMD's cheapest dual core is the athlon II X2 240, pricing under 60$.
AMD's cheapest single core is the Sempron 140, pricing under 40$.
Intel's motherboard LGA775 averages to about 60$ at most.
AMD's AM3 motherboard averages to about 55$ at most.

low power desktop:
Intel's low power desktop, is the Atom D525+(ion)Motherboard, pricing under 150$
Intel's low power desktop, is the Atom D525+(non-ion)Motherboard, pricing under 100$
AMD's low power desktop, is the AMD E-350+Motherboard, pricing under 150$

theres alot to choose from, and theres the option of 2nd hand.
though the thing i`m concerned about the bobcat and atom is that most of them have limited slots to accommodate that much extensions. most of them only hosts 1PCIe(either a x16 or x1). and about 4sata slots.

ohh and to give some clues how slow USB 2.0 based HDD are, a 100GB file takes about an hour to transfer. though way better than usb flashdrive crap that takes a quarter of an hour just to transfer 4gbs of file.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 10:34:34 AM by kitamesume »

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Online kitamesume

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #31 on: June 16, 2011, 04:04:47 AM »
aw crap, hit quote instead of mod, meh. kind of wish theres a delete option.
« Last Edit: June 16, 2011, 04:07:15 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2011, 04:06:51 PM »
Does it make more sense to turn an old PC into an NAS or just to build it from scratch with cheap parts? I mean for instance, an older tower with a P4 (upgrading the proc and other components if necessary?) vs setting up a cheap dual core AMD as suggested by someone on the earlier page.

Reason I'm asking is more just a theoretical question... Since I see to recall reading quite a bit about many users having P4 HTPCs.

Would it make more sense to turn the P4 into an NAS and build a new HTPC vs Keep P4 as HTPC and build a NAS? 

The builds I was looking at were all dual cores and stuff like that.

Depends on the socket. But, in general, older processors do use more electricity to produce the same processing power as newer processors, since new stuff keeps getting more and more efficient, and die sizes keep shrinking. By now, I would guess that a dual core Atom is roughly equivalent to or a bit better than a P4 with hyperthreading from maybe 5-6 years ago, but the Atom uses far less electricity. So it's a tradeoff. How much money do you want to save in the long run (energy) vs. the short run (processor)?
« Last Edit: June 19, 2011, 11:46:04 PM by Freedom Kira »

Offline sapsa

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #33 on: June 18, 2011, 10:07:23 PM »
true.

But buying:
ATOM/BobCat + Raid Cards (so you get more HDDs connected) + Lower PSU = less energy bill

or

Get old PC (need to have sata's - not like mine) + buy Raid Cards (cheaper if you got more satas on mobo) + Higher PSU = higher energy bills

But what diffrent we are talking here. 25W vs 80W. 80-25 = 55Wh, 1kWh at my place is 0,12$ so its 0,0066$/h its (*24*30=) 4,752$ per Month

But we need to keep in mind that making NAS from old parts make durability of our NAS lower. Less risk for hdd failed is with newer parts.

Anyway, im looking for cheap rack Raid case :) ;p
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Offline halfelite

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #34 on: June 18, 2011, 11:34:13 PM »

Anyway, im looking for cheap rack Raid case :) ;p


Norco cases are as cheap as they come. there internal 12 slot is 79bucks. the 20 slot case i just bought was 300 but its external hot swap design.

Offline sapsa

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #35 on: June 19, 2011, 07:17:01 PM »

Anyway, im looking for cheap rack Raid case :) ;p


Norco cases are as cheap as they come. there internal 12 slot is 79bucks. the 20 slot case i just bought was 300 but its external hot swap design.

Norco cases not avaible here... I found only 2 with external 20 slots, for 700$ ;/
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Online kitamesume

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #36 on: June 20, 2011, 10:25:52 AM »
true.

But buying:
ATOM/BobCat + Raid Cards (so you get more HDDs connected) + Lower PSU = less energy bill

or

Get old PC (need to have sata's - not like mine) + buy Raid Cards (cheaper if you got more satas on mobo) + Higher PSU = higher energy bills

But what diffrent we are talking here. 25W vs 80W. 80-25 = 55Wh, 1kWh at my place is 0,12$ so its 0,0066$/h its (*24*30=) 4,752$ per Month

But we need to keep in mind that making NAS from old parts make durability of our NAS lower. Less risk for hdd failed is with newer parts.

Anyway, im looking for cheap rack Raid case :) ;p


the first line is your potential problem about your first option.
though the thing i`m concerned about the bobcat and atom is that most of them have limited slots to accommodate that much extensions. most of them only hosts 1PCIe(either a x16 or x1). and about 4sata slots.

ohh and to give some clues how slow USB 2.0 based HDD are, a 100GB file takes about an hour to transfer. though way better than usb flashdrive crap that takes a quarter of an hour just to transfer 4gbs of file.

if you'd be able to find bobcat/atom boards that are not ITX then that'll make a different answer.

you might want to check the bundle promo newegg has.

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Offline halfelite

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #37 on: June 20, 2011, 06:22:05 PM »
Also another cheap option instead of A whole system. get an esata enclosure. and just buy a pogoplug.

Offline sapsa

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #38 on: July 16, 2011, 06:06:20 AM »
Thanks for all post...

Im waiting for my system to came...

Asus E35M1-M (bobcat + 5 sata + 1 pcie x16 + 1 pcie x1 + 2 pci)
350 W Fortron PSU with 80+
2gb ddr3 stick
new wd20ears :)))) - im testing it right now, i needed a OS hdd, and my hdd's are full, wd green aint recomamded for os so i will move files from spintpoint f3 to wd, f3 will be os, wd will be storage till now
need to find case for start

Norco is great but i hit my budget hard.. need to wait for a bit.

Im thinking now what OS should i put there... w2008 for AD fun, or linux + vm... centos ?
what i want is: vpn, httpd and dont know what more ;P both avaible for win/linux - im thinking about AD, because I can play/learn with it at home
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Offline Wintereise

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Re: Making NAS
« Reply #39 on: July 21, 2011, 04:50:34 AM »
Almost any raid card hates samsung spinpoints. yes 1 sas channel can hold 4 sata discs

I must have gotten really lucky then, because Samsung Spinpoints are exactly what I'm using.

Can confirm. My entire 17TB array is made of Spinpoint F3s.
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