Author Topic: Kanamemo (DVD) (Read 3673 times)

kristen · « **on:** July 06, 2011, 02:28:59 PM »

I don't want to offer this myself, so anybody wanna offer CGi's Kanamemo DVD?

der richter · « **Reply #1 on:** July 06, 2011, 02:39:35 PM »

is it any better than the polished release?

kristen · « **Reply #2 on:** July 06, 2011, 02:51:02 PM »

I haven't seen any screenshot comparisons, but @ http://coalgirls.nyaatorrents.org/?p=4133 it was said that the colors/details are better. In addition, the audio is consistently source release instead of polished's 150 kbps AAC re-encode later on. Most comes from the CGi being ISO sourced while polished was Raw sourced. CGi is also 900 MB smaller.

der richter · « **Reply #3 on:** July 06, 2011, 03:06:35 PM »

ah i see, audio is a obvious plus. also the video resolution is not consistent, 848x480 and 720x480. seems like different raws.

if it's alright i'll make a quick comparison with episode 1. also will check the color/detail thing.

Daiz · « **Reply #4 on:** July 06, 2011, 03:07:30 PM »

Quote from: kristen on July 06, 2011, 02:51:02 PM

it was said that the colors/details are better

If you are referring to namaiki's post about 'full range "extra" details', you obviously didn't catch the sarcasm. The DVDs have a mastering issue where the luma levels aren't in the proper TV range (16-235), which results in loss of color and details when players play it back assuming the encode is using the TV range. A recent example of this same mastering error comes from Dragon Crisis. One way to deal with this would be to use the --fullrange option in x264, which would make players treat the video as using the full 0-255 luma range, but this is not recommended as the luma range is actually irregular - most episodes seem to be using the range 16-255, which means that an encode done with --fullrange would result in gray blacks. Same goes for changing your renderer/decoder to treat the input as PC levels.

I'm not sure if the polished release did this any better though, the colors looked quite bleached there too. Either way, it's a mastering error and something that should be fixed for a proper rip, just like hard telecined video should be IVTC'd.

namaiki · « **Reply #5 on:** July 06, 2011, 03:20:36 PM »

Quote from: Daiz on July 06, 2011, 03:07:30 PM

I'm not sure if the polished release did this any better though, the colors looked quite bleached there too. Either way, it's a mastering error and something that should be fixed for a proper rip, just like hard telecined video should be IVTC'd.

No sarcasm from me, but the rest is completely accurate.

Both groups encodes are based on the same "out of the proper TV range" video source. The CGi rip keeps the colour/detail that is outside of the TV range while polished's video has ignored it and wiped it out. Neither has fixed or adjusted it to keep all detail/colour within TV range.

CGi's release is technically better than polished, but it's still borked. That said, I have no clue how many users have their video/media player set up "properly" to expand TV-> PC range.

kristen · « **Reply #6 on:** July 06, 2011, 03:30:59 PM »

Quote from: der richter on July 06, 2011, 03:06:35 PM

ah i see, audio is a obvious plus. also the video resolution is not consistent, 848x480 and 720x480. seems like different raws.

if it's alright i'll make a quick comparison with episode 1. also will check the color/detail thing.

Please do.

@Daiz - OK. So a share raw vs. an ISO raw makes no difference because Japanese encoders are experts.

Daiz · « **Reply #7 on:** July 06, 2011, 04:14:17 PM »

How on earth did you arrive on such a conclusion, Kristen-kun? In case you didn't notice, I was talking about the luma levels and the mastering issue related to them. Both you and the Share raw encoders failed when it came to this issue, albeit in different ways.

Fafner00 · « **Reply #8 on:** July 06, 2011, 04:59:27 PM »

I was trying to replace polished with coalgirls... (yes I don't like share raws too) but found nothing what better in coalgirls' release...
1) video haven't any additional details (I'm checked random episodes and random scenes (dark scenes, motion scenes), ~~you can trust me or not, I can miss something and so on...~~ see below

). Also I was thinking they fixed THIS SHIT (around 3m30s-4m20s - ep2), but they don't (maybe it's impossible

)
2) Font size eps01-06 and eps07-13, polished release used raws with different resolution. In that case, typesetting is not accurate as in polished, nothing terrible, but still $:-\$ ...
3) all karaoke removed... but some people thinks karaore is needless shit... dunno

der richter · « **Reply #9 on:** July 06, 2011, 05:02:56 PM »

ok here a quick comparison. ep1 for 848x480 resolution (polished episode 1-6) and ep7 for 720x480 resolution (polished episode 7-13). there are some obvious differences in polished's release.

ep1:
cgi: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5
polished: 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5

polished is overcropped. seems sharper because of the cropping and scaling, maybe also sharpened and/or line darkened. little ringing in polished, maybe simple pixelation (screen 4 her face). also see some color difference.
i think CGi is better here.

ep7:
cgi: 1 | 2 | 3
polished: 1 | 2 | 3

polished this time not overcropped. i guess overly sharpened, mayor ringing. maybe some line darkening. also some color difference.
CGi is better here.

ep2:
cgi1 | polished1
just as a comparison to namaiki full range and limited range screens on CGi's site. here full | limited

overall polished's release is overly filtered. k i did some more as i intended to do. oO

DmonHiro · « **Reply #10 on:** July 06, 2011, 05:09:15 PM »

I've seen the ISOs.... they are bad. They COULD be potentially fixed, but honestly, I don't know if it's worth the effort. Personally, I'd pick CGs, because of less filtering, better audio, and constant resolution.

kristen · « **Reply #11 on:** July 06, 2011, 07:57:22 PM »

If you want my opinion on Luma, it's simple. It's a very minor nitpick - nothing close to failing to IVTC and episode or oversharpening. It's an easy fix if it does bug you.

Daiz · « **Reply #12 on:** July 06, 2011, 08:39:08 PM »

Quote from: kristen on July 06, 2011, 07:57:22 PM

If you want my opinion on Luma, it's simple. It's a very minor nitpick - nothing close to failing to IVTC and episode or oversharpening. It's an easy fix if it does bug you.

"A very minor nitpick"? It's an incredibly visible issue, since it results in the video looking severely overbrightened and it results in huge amounts of detail loss. It's even more visible to your average user than failing at IVTC or oversharpening the video.

Allow me to demonstrate:
01: Broken | Fixed
02: Broken | Fixed
03: Broken | Fixed
04: Broken | Fixed
05: Broken | Fixed

As you can see, not fixing the luma levels results in very notable issues:
Shot 1: The background pattern loses tons of details.
Shot 2: The lower part of the fence on the left completely disappears.
Shot 3: The posters become basically unreadable.
Shot 4: The view behind the windows pretty much completely disappears.
Shot 5: The window fades to nothing and the tile pattern on the wall becomes invisible.

Not fixing this is a huge fuck-up, but what was done to the Share/PD raws (just chopping levels 235+ off) is an even bigger fuck-up.

DmonHiro · « **Reply #13 on:** July 06, 2011, 09:12:33 PM »

Well.. where did you get the fixed ones?

Daiz · « **Reply #14 on:** July 06, 2011, 09:15:52 PM »

All the shots come straight from my DVDISOs and were captured via AvsP, with the fixed versions having the necessary AviSynth filtering to fix the issue.

Chiyachan · « **Reply #15 on:** July 06, 2011, 09:17:57 PM »

-stretches and yawns-

Kristen, Diaz, please play nice or toys will be removed.
Also Kristen, when's that group of yours going to go back and fix its fugly mistakes? I'm still waiting for Chihiro to apologise for raping my eyes with the shit effort on Akikan. Yes, I realise it's a crap show, but you and your team didn't have to punish everyone with shit work.
Diaz - I know nothing about your group, but just imagine I've said something offensive about it and yourself. Thanks.

Love,
Chiya.

kristen · « **Reply #16 on:** July 06, 2011, 09:36:02 PM »

Quote from: Daiz on July 06, 2011, 08:39:08 PM

Quote from: kristen on July 06, 2011, 07:57:22 PM
If you want my opinion on Luma, it's simple. It's a very minor nitpick - nothing close to failing to IVTC and episode or oversharpening. It's an easy fix if it does bug you.
"A very minor nitpick"? It's an incredibly visible issue, since it results in the video looking severely overbrightened and it results in huge amounts of detail loss. It's even more visible to your average user than failing at IVTC or oversharpening the video.

Allow me to demonstrate:
01: Broken | Fixed
02: Broken | Fixed
03: Broken | Fixed
04: Broken | Fixed
05: Broken | Fixed

As you can see, not fixing the luma levels results in very notable issues:
Shot 1: The background pattern loses tons of details.
Shot 2: The lower part of the fence on the left completely disappears.
Shot 3: The posters become basically unreadable.
Shot 4: The view behind the windows pretty much completely disappears.
Shot 5: The window fades to nothing and the tile pattern on the wall becomes invisible.

Not fixing this is a huge fuck-up, but what was done to the Share/PD raws (just chopping levels 235+ off) is an even bigger fuck-up.

Yes, as http://blisswater.info/comparison/kanamemo/kanamemo-luma-1-broken.jpg looks a thousand times worse than http://img509.imageshack.us/img509/9369/screenshot3yj0.png . Not to mention, those "broken" frames are easily fixed. Details aren't lost, they're just hidden and easily gained back by adjusting your playback.

Chiyachan has asked for the end to this, so this will be my last post on the subject. But regardless, the obvious fact has been shown - this is better than anything that exists and ever will exist and hence should be uploaded.

Daiz · « **Reply #17 on:** July 06, 2011, 09:41:47 PM »

Quote from: kristen on July 06, 2011, 09:36:02 PM

Details aren't lost, they're just hidden and easily gained back by adjusting your playback.

Except that you can't effectively fix this on playback unless you knew exactly what was wrong with it in the first place, and even then it'd require dabbling with things like ffdshow postprocessor. Making the decoder/renderer assume PC levels is a faulty solution, as the video doesn't use the full PC levels and thus you end up with blacks that look gray which is not correct. Thus approximately 99% of users are affected and unable to fix it properly.

kristen · « **Reply #18 on:** July 06, 2011, 09:45:58 PM »

Quote from: Daiz on July 06, 2011, 09:41:47 PM

Quote from: kristen on July 06, 2011, 09:36:02 PM
Details aren't lost, they're just hidden and easily gained back by adjusting your playback.
Except that you can't effectively fix this on playback unless you knew exactly what was wrong with it in the first place, and even then it'd require dabbling with things like ffdshow postprocessor. Making the decoder/renderer assume PC levels is a faulty solution, as the video doesn't use the full PC levels and thus you end up with blacks that look gray which is not correct. Thus approximately 99% of users are affected and unable to fix it properly.

If you didn't know what was wrong in the first place you wouldn't be noticing anything.

</argument>

Daiz · « **Reply #19 on:** July 06, 2011, 09:50:08 PM »

It's easy to tell that something is wrong when the video looks bright as hell. Many leechers complained that Dragon Crisis looked overbright without knowing what the cause was. Same deal here.

EDIT: And way back when Kanamemo DVDs were initially offered, people were also complaining about "albino lolis" and overtly bright video. I didn't know what exactly was the problem back then either, but it was clear as a day that the DVDs were bright as hell to the point of being faulty.