Internet service providers to act against online piracy by reducing bandwidth

[Kyrdua]

I'm not sure if i understand what you're trying to say here.

(click to show/hide)

Basically, the moment something is created, it is copyrighted to the creator. Whether it's something you say aloud to someone else, graffiti you paint on a wall, or a post you make on a forum, no one has the right to make an exact copy of it without giving you full credit.

So, why say a film in particular is copyrighted? Everything is. It's like saying this website is on the Internet. Well, inform me of a website that isn't.

Point is, when you surf the web, your computer makes a temporary local copy of every page you visit. Only difference here is that the copy is deleted once you leave the page or close your browser, depending on the browser, so the creators don't particularly care.

ooh, now i see your point. though that probably is a particularly weak argument given most websites are meant to be downloaded an distributed "for free".

If films are distributed for free they probably won't give a damn if it gets pirated because they won't lose the money they're not even getting. with that said, they have a good reason to be pissed off but i believe that's exaggerated. with all the DRM crap they put in paid stuff, it makes the pirated copies more appealing.

[Bob2004]

I was reading SwissVPN's general terms and conditions and it really seems like they don't try to protect their clients at all.

(click to show/hide)

2. Obligations of the Client
General
In particular, the Client must ensure that the internet access is used
in accordance with current legislation and existing contracts (esp.
Clause 5) and that the payments for services subscribed to (see
Clauses 3 and 4) are made on time.

. . . skip . . .

5. Information content; correct legal and
contractual use; misuse
Information content
The Client is responsible for the content of the information (data,
language in any form) transmitted or processed by Monzoon or made
available by the Client to third parties. Monzoon is not responsible for
these data nor for any information that the Client receives via the
internet network or which third parties distribute or make available via
internet networks.
Correct legal and contractual use
The Client is responsible for ensuring that the internet access is used
in accordance with current legislation and existing contracts. The
Client may not use the internet access to disturb or annoy (e.g.
spamming) third parties, nor to prevent the correct functioning of
another network access, nor for any other, illegal, purpose. Illegal
purposes include the transmission or provision of illegal content, as
well as advertising campaigns or messages where the sender knows
(or must be aware) that the recipient does not wish to receive
promotional calls or messages.
Usage of Monzoon Services Through Third Parties
A direct or secondary use of Monzoon services through third parties
is prohibited without explicit written permission from Monzoon
Networks. In particular, it is prohibited to give or share user names or
passwords, or in any other way allow or enable unallowed third party
use.
Measures against misuse
If there is evidence of illegal use of an internet access, if such misuse
is reported by a competent authority, or if a legal ruling decrees a
misuse, Monzoon can demand that the Client’s access be in
compliance with current legislation and existing contracts, may
discontinue the services provided without prior notice or
indemnification, cancel the contract without notice or indemnification
and if necessary seek compensation. Monzoon can effect the same
measures if it has grounds for assuming that the Client is violating or
will violate the contract, or that they provided incorrect or incomplete
details when taking out the contract. If Monzoon cancels the contract
for any of these reasons, the Client shall be liable for the payment of
any outstanding amounts in accordance with the contractual
conditions governing the early termination of the contract.

I'm not sure how relevant that particular document you've linked is. Monzoon Networks are a company who mainly provide Data centre hosting to companies, and those T&Cs are just general ones which apply to all their customers (SwissVPN is just run through a server in their data centre). They also provide wireless hotspot services in Switzerland, which seems to be what those T&Cs were originally written for.

On their main website, they say they don't collect any personal information from their network, and since the only information they have on you is your email address and Paypal details (since that's all they ask for), even if in the worst case scenario an anti-piracy company tried to make them hand over your details, they don't really have anything anyway. And Switzerland is pretty good for data protection, so it's unlikely any anti-piracy companies would be able to make them hand anything over even if they tried.

Besides, all that document says is that they take no responsibility for data passed through their network, and that they'll terminate your access if you're caught doing anything illegal. It's probably only there to cover their back in case someone tries to sue them because of something that was done using their services. It definitely doesn't say anything about not protecting their client's personal information; after all, their whole SwissVPN business depends on keeping user's details private. If they released them without putting up a fight, their reputation would be ruined.

[Freedom Kira]

ooh, now i see your point. though that probably is a particularly weak argument given most websites are meant to be downloaded an distributed "for free".

If films are distributed for free they probably won't give a damn if it gets pirated because they won't lose the money they're not even getting. with that said, they have a good reason to be pissed off but i believe that's exaggerated. with all the DRM crap they put in paid stuff, it makes the pirated copies more appealing.

Nah, the point was the word "copyright" that they keep using. Films aren't any more special than what a random person decides to write in his blog - everything is copyrighted. It's just that people who make films want to make money off of it, and the blogger doesn't. But that doesn't mean that the blogger's productions aren't copyrighted.

If you ask me, I can't think of a better word, aside from maybe "licensed." "Copyright" would be a word that's overused in that respect.

[tomoya-kun]

My ISP doesn't throttle torrents or monitor me as far as I know, I download hundreds of gigs of stuff each month.

[eNomineZerum]

I will have to see is Suddenlink cuts my connection back. I have a 10Mb down with 1Mb up. uTorrent shows my downloads can sustain 1.2MB down and 120kB up. Anyway, I have been hitting the net pretty hard for the past few days since I have been on vacation and have yet to see my speeds drop. I can't wait to see my total monthly usage because Suddenlink believes that 43 Gigabytes is the amount that I should use, I can account for 20+ on Xbox Live and Youtube alone.

[temuchin]

for a while i have been using seed-boxes and downloading from there via SFTP.

[Proin Drakenzol]

So ISPs are flat out stating that they're either violating your privacy or reducing service on base suspicion without any sort of evidence.

So either way they'll be violating something.

I smell a lawsuit in the making.

[tomoya-kun]

I will have to see is Suddenlink cuts my connection back. I have a 10Mb down with 1Mb up. uTorrent shows my downloads can sustain 1.2MB down and 120kB up. Anyway, I have been hitting the net pretty hard for the past few days since I have been on vacation and have yet to see my speeds drop. I can't wait to see my total monthly usage because Suddenlink believes that 43 Gigabytes is the amount that I should use, I can account for 20+ on Xbox Live and Youtube alone.

43 is your cap?

[Tegh]

So ISPs are flat out stating that they're either violating your privacy or reducing service on base suspicion without any sort of evidence.

So either way they'll be violating something.

I smell a lawsuit in the making.

Unfortunately brudda, it'd be hard to sue them.  Not that they shouldn't be, they should, but the government is retarded when it comes to the magical internet!  Companies can employ dirty tricks to almost do whatever they want at the moment, and the only people that should have a "problem" with them are the bad guys AKA p2p users... All the company will do upon a grievance is point at the fake smoking gun, and discredit the person arguing because they must have done something wrong to begin with.

That's why we should build our own internet instead, with blackjack and hookers!  In fact screw the internet!

[Proin Drakenzol]

So ISPs are flat out stating that they're either violating your privacy or reducing service on base suspicion without any sort of evidence.

So either way they'll be violating something.

I smell a lawsuit in the making.

Unfortunately brudda, it'd be hard to sue them.  Not that they shouldn't be, they should, but the government is retarded when it comes to the magical internet!  Companies can employ dirty tricks to almost do whatever they want at the moment, and the only people that should have a "problem" with them are the bad guys AKA p2p users... All the company will do upon a grievance is point at the fake smoking gun, and discredit the person arguing because they must have done something wrong to begin with.

That's why we should build our own internet instead, with blackjack and hookers!  In fact screw the internet!

^5

[Tiffanys]

I was reading SwissVPN's general terms and conditions and it really seems like they don't try to protect their clients at all.

(click to show/hide)

2. Obligations of the Client
General
In particular, the Client must ensure that the internet access is used
in accordance with current legislation and existing contracts (esp.
Clause 5) and that the payments for services subscribed to (see
Clauses 3 and 4) are made on time.

. . . skip . . .

5. Information content; correct legal and
contractual use; misuse
Information content
The Client is responsible for the content of the information (data,
language in any form) transmitted or processed by Monzoon or made
available by the Client to third parties. Monzoon is not responsible for
these data nor for any information that the Client receives via the
internet network or which third parties distribute or make available via
internet networks.
Correct legal and contractual use
The Client is responsible for ensuring that the internet access is used
in accordance with current legislation and existing contracts. The
Client may not use the internet access to disturb or annoy (e.g.
spamming) third parties, nor to prevent the correct functioning of
another network access, nor for any other, illegal, purpose. Illegal
purposes include the transmission or provision of illegal content, as
well as advertising campaigns or messages where the sender knows
(or must be aware) that the recipient does not wish to receive
promotional calls or messages.
Usage of Monzoon Services Through Third Parties
A direct or secondary use of Monzoon services through third parties
is prohibited without explicit written permission from Monzoon
Networks. In particular, it is prohibited to give or share user names or
passwords, or in any other way allow or enable unallowed third party
use.
Measures against misuse
If there is evidence of illegal use of an internet access, if such misuse
is reported by a competent authority, or if a legal ruling decrees a
misuse, Monzoon can demand that the Client’s access be in
compliance with current legislation and existing contracts, may
discontinue the services provided without prior notice or
indemnification, cancel the contract without notice or indemnification
and if necessary seek compensation. Monzoon can effect the same
measures if it has grounds for assuming that the Client is violating or
will violate the contract, or that they provided incorrect or incomplete
details when taking out the contract. If Monzoon cancels the contract
for any of these reasons, the Client shall be liable for the payment of
any outstanding amounts in accordance with the contractual
conditions governing the early termination of the contract.

I'm not sure how relevant that particular document you've linked is. Monzoon Networks are a company who mainly provide Data centre hosting to companies, and those T&Cs are just general ones which apply to all their customers (SwissVPN is just run through a server in their data centre). They also provide wireless hotspot services in Switzerland, which seems to be what those T&Cs were originally written for.

On their main website, they say they don't collect any personal information from their network, and since the only information they have on you is your email address and Paypal details (since that's all they ask for), even if in the worst case scenario an anti-piracy company tried to make them hand over your details, they don't really have anything anyway. And Switzerland is pretty good for data protection, so it's unlikely any anti-piracy companies would be able to make them hand anything over even if they tried.

Besides, all that document says is that they take no responsibility for data passed through their network, and that they'll terminate your access if you're caught doing anything illegal. It's probably only there to cover their back in case someone tries to sue them because of something that was done using their services. It definitely doesn't say anything about not protecting their client's personal information; after all, their whole SwissVPN business depends on keeping user's details private. If they released them without putting up a fight, their reputation would be ruined.

But... wouldn't Paypal hand over your info?

Although, I do know the Swiss have the best protection of any country over their net. It's not enough to suspect someone of a crime. They have to be able to prove you would do jail time if proven guilty before they even have any merit whatsoever. A fine isn't enough.

[kitamesume]

sue them for extortion and state this line "they've kept billing me for higher than what i should pay and reducing the service that i`m paying for."

proof is your bill, you get a 100$ a month plan and get a bill of 140$? that 40$ is your plain proof, if they say those are additional fees then bitch slap them their paper and state this line "i want my 100$ a month plan, not some shitty 140$ a month plan."

plus if they'd declare that that 40$ is for the "per gb" bill then state this line "that 'per gb' is non-existent and unstated on your advertisement and your services, should i include another fact that you're providing the public with false advertisement?"

ohh and if you do win, ask for a lifetime free internet, if thats not possible, ask a refund for the months/years you've been paying including that shitty 40$ additional "fees".

[Tegh]

sue them for extortion and state this line "they've kept billing me for higher than what i should pay and reducing the service that i`m paying for."

proof is your bill, you get a 100$ a month plan and get a bill of 140$? that 40$ is your plain proof, if they say those are additional fees then bitch slap them their paper and state this line "i want my 100$ a month plan, not some shitty 140$ a month plan."

plus if they'd declare that that 40$ is for the "per gb" bill then state this line "that 'per gb' is non-existent and unstated on your advertisement and your services, should i include another fact that you're providing the public with false advertisement?"

ohh and if you do win, ask for a lifetime free internet, if thats not possible, ask a refund for the months/years you've been paying including that shitty 40$ additional "fees".

Read some of the "Terms and Conditions" from the ISPs.  Trust me there is more then a one clause on most of them that allow them to increase rates for certain reasons.  You have to agree to those terms before using their service, even if it's the only one around, therefore...your plan wouldn't work. 

Plus the companies can afford to pay the lawyer fees to jerk your chain around for the next 4 years (because they now get even MORE money from ppl that don't know better), but a normal person can't afford the battle.  While i hate how that all works out...you're better off paying the 40 then the 50K, just saying!

[kitamesume]

true true, you can only win this fight if you could prove that their service is incompetent and the advertised speed is falsified(this includes the caps where most of them says its "unlimited" but caps your speed horribly). sadly the government does not know how to handle such a case plus the evidence gathered can be considered as forged or falsified, making it hard to find a solid evidence. you`ll need to hack into their database and steal their information from there.

[Meomix]

sue them for extortion and state this line "they've kept billing me for higher than what i should pay and reducing the service that i`m paying for."

proof is your bill, you get a 100$ a month plan and get a bill of 140$? that 40$ is your plain proof, if they say those are additional fees then bitch slap them their paper and state this line "i want my 100$ a month plan, not some shitty 140$ a month plan."

plus if they'd declare that that 40$ is for the "per gb" bill then state this line "that 'per gb' is non-existent and unstated on your advertisement and your services, should i include another fact that you're providing the public with false advertisement?"

ohh and if you do win, ask for a lifetime free internet, if thats not possible, ask a refund for the months/years you've been paying including that shitty 40$ additional "fees".

Read some of the "Terms and Conditions" from the ISPs.  Trust me there is more then a one clause on most of them that allow them to increase rates for certain reasons.  You have to agree to those terms before using their service, even if it's the only one around, therefore...your plan wouldn't work.  

Plus the companies can afford to pay the lawyer fees to jerk your chain around for the next 4 years (because they now get even MORE money from ppl that don't know better), but a normal person can't afford the battle.  While i hate how that all works out...you're better off paying the 40 then the 50K, just saying!

Pfft i'd rather complete the darknet than put up with that shit.

[Tegh]

Pfft i'd rather complete the darknet than put up with that shit.

Exactly!  It's a losing battle to fight against the established ISP, so...make your own lol.  Solution solved, until you turn out to be the same dick selling access to your network and raping uneducated users.  (Come on they are a company and out to make money, while i hate them...got to admit they are doing their job of making money well *shrug*)

[BlackPages]

In times like these, I'm SO happy I live in Romania. Nobody gives a damn, last time anyone got in trouble, be it major, or minor (such as this internet cap), was a couple of years ago.

[tomoya-kun]

Pfft i'd rather complete the darknet than put up with that shit.

Exactly!  It's a losing battle to fight against the established ISP, so...make your own lol.  Solution solved, until you turn out to be the same dick selling access to your network and raping uneducated users.  (Come on they are a company and out to make money, while i hate them...got to admit they are doing their job of making money well *shrug*)

Or you can be nice, like my ISP is pretty nice, no complaining against torrets, they give me FASTER THAN LISTED speeds by DOUBLE.

[Tegh]

Pfft i'd rather complete the darknet than put up with that shit.

Exactly!  It's a losing battle to fight against the established ISP, so...make your own lol.  Solution solved, until you turn out to be the same dick selling access to your network and raping uneducated users.  (Come on they are a company and out to make money, while i hate them...got to admit they are doing their job of making money well *shrug*)

Or you can be nice, like my ISP is pretty nice, no complaining against torrets, they give me FASTER THAN LISTED speeds by DOUBLE.

Actually it depends on your business plan there, and the number of users you have.  If you are a company (like the ones in question) you really don't care too much about "will people use my product?"  Nine times out of ten they have a monopoly on certain areas.  Making that question useless, and therefore, customer service.

Granted, if i was going to establish an ISP, I'd start off being nice like that, to encourage a switch to my service.  Probably continue that way, until i crushed the competition and had the same monopoly they used to have.  (Kinda the history of things at present...)

[tomoya-kun]

Pfft i'd rather complete the darknet than put up with that shit.

Exactly!  It's a losing battle to fight against the established ISP, so...make your own lol.  Solution solved, until you turn out to be the same dick selling access to your network and raping uneducated users.  (Come on they are a company and out to make money, while i hate them...got to admit they are doing their job of making money well *shrug*)

Or you can be nice, like my ISP is pretty nice, no complaining against torrets, they give me FASTER THAN LISTED speeds by DOUBLE.

Actually it depends on your business plan there, and the number of users you have.  If you are a company (like the ones in question) you really don't care too much about "will people use my product?"  Nine times out of ten they have a monopoly on certain areas.  Making that question useless, and therefore, customer service.

Granted, if i was going to establish an ISP, I'd start off being nice like that, to encourage a switch to my service.  Probably continue that way, until i crushed the competition and had the same monopoly they used to have.  (Kinda the history of things at present...)

The ISP I use buys bandwidth off of the main ISP wholesale and sells it for a lower price than the main ISP.