Author Topic: help me buy a new comp  (Read 3294 times)

Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2011, 06:43:25 PM »
this is so wrong, what datora meant by use a WD black for OS is IF you are going to use a HDD for the OS instead and arent going SSD based.

for the same price(thinking about 150$) you could get like 128GB of SSD plus the fact that the OS barely even uses 30GB...

imho 60GB SSD for OS and 1TB HDD on main storage should be your primary goal, any excess should be done externally(NAS, bah even USB 3.0 based is enough as a storage) or at least do it on a different HDD.

I don't know about you, but it looks to me like he doesn't want an SSD. So he would be fulfilling the condition of "if you're going to use a HDD for the OS."

And keep his initial conditions in mind when you recommend stuff. He quite clearly stated he wants 2TB of storage. A NAS would overshoot his budget, and an external would heat up too much if he uses it too frequently.

Nyking: That said, I do agree that you should take a look at SSDs, unless you're using XP or lower, since they don't natively support them as well as Vista and 7, so you would need to do a lot more tweaking than you would if you used Vista/7. A 1TB Black is $90, right? You can't get a decently-sized SSD for that price (you're looking at 60GB or lower, and they're not that great), but if you're willing to go up to $160-200 you can get a good one in the 120GB range. The performance boost from that is, IMO, more than enough to justify the cost.

Well, if you still want the Black, that's fine too. Do make sure you get the 64MB cache model, though. It's $2 more than the 32MB cache model. At least, that's how it is in Canada.

... they transfer data at very fast speeds, even for SATA II 5400RPM drives.

You should know that no HDD can transfer data at SATA II speeds. The fastest HDDs can only just overshoot the SATA I specs.

Offline Meomix

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2011, 06:51:15 PM »
this is so wrong, what datora meant by use a WD black for OS is IF you are going to use a HDD for the OS instead and arent going SSD based.

for the same price(thinking about 150$) you could get like 128GB of SSD plus the fact that the OS barely even uses 30GB...

imho 60GB SSD for OS and 1TB HDD on main storage should be your primary goal, any excess should be done externally(NAS, bah even USB 3.0 based is enough as a storage) or at least do it on a different HDD.

I don't know about you, but it looks to me like he doesn't want an SSD. So he would be fulfilling the condition of "if you're going to use a HDD for the OS."

And keep his initial conditions in mind when you recommend stuff. He quite clearly stated he wants 2TB of storage. A NAS would overshoot his budget, and an external would heat up too much if he uses it too frequently.


Eh i have an external hardisk with air vents that has been on for 5 weeks, it's within the safe zone right?
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Online kitamesume

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #22 on: July 18, 2011, 06:53:09 PM »
i was thinking if it was 150$ meh, the WD black that i remembered was the 2TB that the other thread has his eyes on =P ohh well.

@Meomix
yes it is, so long as it has fans on it, and is not reaching more than 80c.

anyway, i`m seeing an overkill rig that would be sitting on a bench doing "some stuffs" plus "not so heavy gaming", what i`d consider heavy gaming is if he starts going 1440p and above plus 3D? meh, which i doubt would be even possible on one 23" screen, looking at reviews 1920x1080 games(excluding crysis and metro) only requires an athlon II X4 + HD6850 to make it run at high with a stable 60FPS.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 04:39:26 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline Nyking754

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #23 on: July 18, 2011, 07:48:52 PM »
games i play- final fantasy 14 (big fan of the series), warcraft, starcraft, League of legends, crysis, GTA4, Cod
and i dont want to update my video card every few months so i want one that can last for at least a year and is able to play games that is coming out next year


i might consider getting a ssd but how much faster is a ssd? :-\


also i need a large storage for anime and torrenting reasons as ill be leaving my comp on all day

Offline datora

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #24 on: July 18, 2011, 08:53:51 PM »
.
i might consider getting a ssd but how much faster is a ssd? :-\

They are mad faster than a mechanical drive.  BUT you'll need to understand a couple things about them for realistic expectations and so that you get a good one ... there is older tech that is being liquidated right now and it is less reliable and has lower performance than others.

Start with this topic:

> Technology > ssd recommendations?

Also, several other topics related to building systems discuss SSD specifications and performance, and often mention/link to specific models of interest.


also i need a large storage for anime and torrenting reasons as ill be leaving my comp on all day

That 4 TB storage solution I mentioned on the previous page of this topic ... I torrent off that and it stays icy cold, while streaming anime and music off it simultaneously.


[ EDIT:  moar on SSD:

You can do your system build using something like the WD Caviar Black I recommended.  Get your whole system built, installed, running sweet and all burned in properly.  You can buy an SSD later, like October or December and migrate your entire operating system over to it.  The prices will come down a good bit by then, and you'll get a better SSD for your money, both in performance and reliability.  It will also give you enough time to read up on them so you can make a wise choice and use it to your best advantage. ]
« Last Edit: July 18, 2011, 08:57:43 PM by datora »
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Offline Nyking754

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #25 on: July 18, 2011, 10:53:37 PM »
hey many of u guys are telling me i should over clock my comp and i know what it is but how do u do it and how effective is it? ???

Online krumm

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #26 on: July 19, 2011, 12:23:35 AM »
hey many of u guys are telling me i should over clock my comp and i know what it is but how do u do it and how effective is it? ???

Overclocking is good for people that want to get every bit of power out of their computer, but most of the time you will only notice a true improvement on benchmarks and nothing else.  I prefer to down-volt my self, but most people will say that is stupid.

It is not hard to get a basic overclock if you decide to do so, and there is not much risk if do not up the voltage.

If you want to over clock I recommended an unlocked CPU because it makes things easier.

Offline datora

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #27 on: July 19, 2011, 12:28:08 AM »
.
Are you familiar with going into the BIOS of your computer and changing the settings for how your motherboard works?  For example, you can set the time, or disable onboard sound so that an expansion soundcard works, or you set the boot priority for your system to look on your hard drive first, or your CD/DVD first, or your USB ports first, etc.

If you are familiar with that (??), then to overclock with today's technology, you will have a motherboard that allows you to change the clock settings for the speed of your CPU &/or RAM.  There is a "clock multiplier" settings.  Your base mobo operates at a certain MHz (the base used to be 33 MHz).  You tell your motherboard to use a multiple of that, like 5x, for example, and you get 5 x 33 = 166 MHz (there are rounding issues, just bear with me).

On more modern systems, you have a base that is larger, like 800 MHz, and you use multiplier values such as 4x to get 3.2 GHz.  So, if you get an AMD Deneb 955 Black Edition, it's rated value is 3.2 GHz.  Your mobo detects what it should run at (usually) and chooses the correct multiplier value.  If it messes up, you get to set it manually to what it should be, or you want it to be.  Note the Black Edition ... in the world of AMD, these aretheir premium, robust CPUs that can take a solid extra bit of OCing.

Many mobo's allow you to manually set this value, so you can choose 5x, for example, and run the CPU at 4 GHz.

This can be hideously dangerous, because your CPU uses a lot more clock cycles and gets much hotter ... thus the cooling block aftermarket to increase heat dissipation.

So, you should already know some of this, just wanted to tie it all together.

In addition to the multiplier setting, sometimes you also need to adjust the voltage to get a stable system ... again, from within the BIOS.  One reason I mentioned Gigabyte mobos earlier is that they have one of the most robust and flexible BIOS solutions for these sorts of hat tricks.

Overclocking your RAM is a very similar operation, and you also get to play around with "timing" values.  When you look at RAM, you'll see something like "CAS latency 9" and timings of 9-9-9-24.  For 1600 MHz RAM, this is pretty spanking solid; but, with some luck and playing, you might get timings down to 8-8-8-24 or run it at 1800 or 1833 MHz (very difficult to do both, and stressful to your RAM) and gain a few extra % in performance.


A good mobo also has safety & reset options ... meaning, if your system is unstable, it shuts down automagically and lets you reboot into your BIOS and adjust to less aggressive values.  Again, Gigabyte, ASUS, MSI are very good ones to start looking at; there are other options.

In the end, with examples such as I just listed, you can boost your overall system performance by 20%-25% using a well-ventilated case and good air cooling block (on CPU) & cooling fins (on RAM).  Some mad-scientist types go for extreme, like pushing a 3.2 GHz rated CPU up to 5.5 GHZ or even try for 6 GHz.  God bless 'em, but for normal mortals like ourselves, getting 4 GHz, or maybe 4.2 GHz, is quite a nice, SAFE performance bump to shoot for.

One more tweak:  depending on your video card, you may be able to overclock that by ~10%-20%, and further maximize your hardware.  So, you decide if 25% performance increase is worth your time.


http://overclock.net is pretty much THE standard resource to jump off and begin to really explore this.  You will learn enough vocabulary and find enough links to determine what you might wish to attempt safely.  The bottom line here is that you will have to learn a fair bit about your hardware to really push the envelope, but you can get by with basic knowledge if you're happy just tweaking up slightly.

Get your build together, get it operating at all its rated values, make sure everything is stable and not defective.

THEN slowly change one value at a time, a little bit at a time, until you move its performance up the scale a bit.  You're gonna need to learn a few utilities (about 4 minimum, 8 or 10 if you get into it) to analyze your system and to stress-test & burn it in, but none of them are brain surgery.
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Offline Nyking754

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #28 on: July 19, 2011, 01:04:28 AM »
^^ no idea how to do that but i just checked out this processor that might be able to save me some money,
just wondering if it is good
AMD A8-3850 Llano 2.9GHz 4MB L2 Cache Socket FM1 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU AD3850WNGXBOX

i know its not as good as my current build but im wondering if this card is good for now and if i could upgrade to the newer stuff later on when this card is out of date

Online krumm

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #29 on: July 19, 2011, 02:27:06 AM »
^^ no idea how to do that but i just checked out this processor that might be able to save me some money,
just wondering if it is good
AMD A8-3850 Llano 2.9GHz 4MB L2 Cache Socket FM1 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU AD3850WNGXBOX

i know its not as good as my current build but im wondering if this card is good for now and if i could upgrade to the newer stuff later on when this card is out of date

That chip has a GPU built into the die and uses a different cpu socket.  I have not looked at the reviews for that but it is probably best for like a HTPC.  I have not looked at the FM1 Socket so do not know upgrade ability.  I do not recommend a CPU with built in GPU for a main PC.

Offline Tjoohej

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #30 on: July 19, 2011, 04:38:13 AM »
For a Monitor, i can Highly recommend LG w2363d, 23-inch, 120hz, 3D if you use it, wich i don't. And watching movies and looking at pictures also works very well, plus it's made for gaming since u get 0 input lag.

A review for this monitor can be found at http://www.flatpanelshd.com/review.php?subaction=showfull&id=1280136712 where they also share the screen settings that works best.

Online kitamesume

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #31 on: July 19, 2011, 05:57:02 AM »
ok give me a breather and let me catch up. *breaths* -sigh-

games i play- final fantasy 14 (big fan of the series), warcraft, starcraft, League of legends, crysis, GTA4, Cod
and i dont want to update my video card every few months so i want one that can last for at least a year and is able to play games that is coming out next year


i might consider getting a ssd but how much faster is a ssd? :-\


also i need a large storage for anime and torrenting reasons as ill be leaving my comp on all day
a single SSD is like two raptors on raid-0(raid-0 = multiply it's performance by the number of disks in the array), whats raptors you ask? think about a bicycle(HDD) racing against a motor cycle(raptor).

you dont need that much HDD free space internally, stack up some external HDDs(3.0 USB based if you can), those work beautifully.

^^ no idea how to do that but i just checked out this processor that might be able to save me some money,
just wondering if it is good
AMD A8-3850 Llano 2.9GHz 4MB L2 Cache Socket FM1 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU AD3850WNGXBOX

i know its not as good as my current build but im wondering if this card is good for now and if i could upgrade to the newer stuff later on when this card is out of date
AMD Llano is bad, i mean horrible, the only thing it's worth a buy if you arent getting a GPU, which is i doubt as their ondie is not that great for gaming. their most powerful ondie pretty much is only equal to HD6570.

PS: the phenom II outruns the Llano, because Llano are based on Athlon II.

hey many of u guys are telling me i should over clock my comp and i know what it is but how do u do it and how effective is it? ???

Overclocking is good for people that want to get every bit of power out of their computer, but most of the time you will only notice a true improvement on benchmarks and nothing else.  I prefer to down-volt my self, but most people will say that is stupid.

It is not hard to get a basic overclock if you decide to do so, and there is not much risk if do not up the voltage.

If you want to over clock I recommended an unlocked CPU because it makes things easier.

wait, who's saying its stupid? i`m not saying its stupid, i currently am doing it on my i3-2100(duh i cant overclock it, might as well downvolt it) i`m running it @ 0.650volts at idle.

« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 06:28:22 AM by kitamesume »

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Offline Lupin

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #32 on: July 19, 2011, 12:24:08 PM »
^^ no idea how to do that but i just checked out this processor that might be able to save me some money,
just wondering if it is good
AMD A8-3850 Llano 2.9GHz 4MB L2 Cache Socket FM1 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU AD3850WNGXBOX

i know its not as good as my current build but im wondering if this card is good for now and if i could upgrade to the newer stuff later on when this card is out of date
Is it good enough? Yes but there are way better options with minimal cost increase. Look for those instead.

Upgradability of the FM1 socket is probably very slim. The next gen APUs will probably use a new socket (FM2?).

AMD Llano is bad, i mean horrible, the only thing it's worth a buy if you arent getting a GPU, which is i doubt as their ondie is not that great for gaming. their most powerful ondie pretty much is only equal to HD6570.
How is it horrible? The Llano platform is feature rich. Its cpu is good enough for common tasks. It also has 4 real cores compared to intel's i3 two. It's ondie gpu is more powerful than your punny i3 2100's. There are better processors yes but Llano isn't horrible.

PS: the phenom II outruns the Llano, because Llano are based on Athlon II.

Phenom II and Llano are targeting different consumer price points. Phenom II targeted the mainstream, Llano the low end. Llano replaces Athlon II. Comparing them is outright dumb.

Online kitamesume

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #33 on: July 19, 2011, 01:40:54 PM »
well i meant look at them, 120$ or 140$, you could get a phenom 955 for like 120$... cheaper mobos too... well yes there are cheaper FM1 mobos(70+$) but do remember theres cheaper AM3 mobos(50+$) as well =P

[140$] AMD A8-3850 Llano 2.9GHz 4MB L2 Cache Socket FM1 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU
[120$] AMD A6-3650 Llano 2.6GHz 4MB L2 Cache Socket FM1 100W Quad-Core Desktop APU
[120$] ASUS F1A75-M PRO FM1 AMD A75 (Hudson D3) HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 Micro ATX - 4×240pin | PCI Express 2.0 x16 2(x16, x4)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[120$] AMD Phenom II X4 955 Black Edition Deneb 3.2GHz
[90$] ASRock 870 EXTREME3 AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard - 4×240pin | PCI Express 2.0 x16 2(x16, x0 or x8, x8)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[80$] AMD Athlon II X4 630 Propus 2.8GHz 4 x 512KB L2 Cache Socket AM3 95W Quad-Core Desktop Processor
[90$] ASRock 870 EXTREME3 AM3 AMD 870 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX AMD Motherboard - 4×240pin | PCI Express 2.0 x16 2(x16, x0 or x8, x8)
[100$](70$ after rebate)ZOTAC ZT-40503-10L GeForce GTS 450 (Fermi) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5

imho if you're getting a GPU then their prices are unjustified OR might as well pick the cheaper athlon and fetch a card for the same price >,>
overclocking Llano seems to be a bit sketchy too because everything on the entire mobo is tied to the same reference clock.

but do note, i`m not hating it, its just that the pricing is ridiculous. if they manage to stuff in a HD6770 for the same price then put it on my cart XD
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 02:18:03 PM by kitamesume »

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Offline Freedom Kira

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #34 on: July 19, 2011, 03:10:47 PM »
i might consider getting a ssd but how much faster is a ssd? :-\

It's quite ridiculous. Once you switch over, there's no going back. What might take minutes on an HDD would take mere seconds on an SSD. You know those Windows updates that take several minutes? It's done in a flash on SSDs.

Online krumm

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #35 on: July 19, 2011, 05:04:56 PM »
...

hey many of u guys are telling me i should over clock my comp and i know what it is but how do u do it and how effective is it? ???

Overclocking is good for people that want to get every bit of power out of their computer, but most of the time you will only notice a true improvement on benchmarks and nothing else.  I prefer to down-volt my self, but most people will say that is stupid.

It is not hard to get a basic overclock if you decide to do so, and there is not much risk if do not up the voltage.

If you want to over clock I recommended an unlocked CPU because it makes things easier.

wait, who's saying its stupid? i`m not saying its stupid, i currently am doing it on my i3-2100(duh i cant overclock it, might as well downvolt it) i`m running it @ 0.650volts at idle.



I could not even tell you how many stupid comments I have been told about down-volting.  I wanted to tell the op that overclocking is not the only option and down-volting is a viable alternative no matter what someone else may say.  I prefer to down-volt becuase I can see a real difference with it when overclocking only gives a few points on a benchmark.  I like to see lower temps when some like to see high scores.

Offline datora

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #36 on: July 19, 2011, 06:55:33 PM »
.
New E-Blast newsletter from newegg from this morning.  It's a Good Idea to sign up for this and check the deals as they are published.

Oh, look, RAM:

 - G.SKILL Sniper Low Voltage Series 8GB (2 x 4GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)

for $60 delivered, with promo code EMCKCJA24

This is the exact same RAM I bought for my system, exact same deal.  You won't do better than this (right now); it's exceptionally solid memory with a lifetime warranty on it.  It's also a certified matched set, so if they don't play well with each other for some reason, G.Skill will replace the set under warranty.  You can poke around and try to find 1800 or 1833 or 2100 RAM ... but, really, not worth the price bump.  Well, unless you got something reliable at about this same price.

This memory is reported stable overclock at 1800/1833.  I intend to try it once my system is burned in, but not too concerned if it doesn't work ... 1600 is damned fast.  I'd rather try to adjust the timings down to 8-8-8-24, which I've seen, and try to undervolt it a touch, as krumm has suggested.  If you can do that stable, the memory will run cooler and (theoretically) have an extended life expectancy.  Same philosophy applies to CPUs & GPUs.


This case:

 - Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower

is a gold standard for computer cases.  With promo code EMCKCJA32 and after rebate, it will be $60 delivered.  Free shipping is always great, especially on bulky items like this.  If I had to choose between my Lian Li case ($50) and this one, I probably would have got this one for the extra $10, based upon name brand and rep.  However, I lucked out, and the Lian Li turned out to be a really outstanding deal.  I'm very happy with it.  Although it comes with fewer fans, it also doesn't have the side window and blue lights everywhere ... some things that I do not consider to be desirable "features."


A power supply:

 - OCZ ModXStream Pro 700W Modular

Promo code EMCKCJA34 and then a rebate brings it down to $50 delivered.  So long as you stick with a single video card, 700 watts is overpowered for you, even if you push your overclocking and run 6 mechanical HDDs.  Has teh "80 plus" eco rating for efficiency, a feature that you should consider 'must have' for reasons I mentioned before.  The "modular" is a nice extra; it lets you pick & choose which cables you need to reduce management and clutter and help tweak airflow through your case (which should NOT be a problem with the Antec 900 above).

There are many PSU options, so don't feel like you have to jump on this one ... it's just an example of features, size and cost that you can get if you watch for it.  Cooler Master, Antec, Corsair, Coolmax are all good alternates ... just don't pay a stupid premium for a brand name.


By The Way, this is the DVD burner you want:

 - ASUS 24X DVD Burner DVD±R [all formats, etc.] Black SATA Model DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS

$19.99 delivered.  If you don't get it under this special, just wait and keep looking ... it comes around about once a month at this price @newegg.

I've had five of these (some were older 18x models).  I've ripped over 6,000 CDs and a couple hundred DVDs with these, especially if you downspeed them they are magnificent and extract perfect data copies.  Left three in Latvia and have two now.  One is PATA, the other SATA.  If you get a mobo w/ a PATA controller, you can connect your DVD &/or CD drive(s) and save yourself a couple of SATA connections.  A normal burner cannot use the larger data pipeline of a SATA connection; a PATA (at 100 UDMA) is more than fast enough for all read & burn functions.

It's getting really hard to find PATA drives anymore.  Just a tip on how to use a PATA controller if you have one.  HOWEVER, if you make the jump to a blu-ray player/burner ... I'm not sure if a PATA controller would bottleneck it (if they even make blu-ray drives for PATA!).

Anyway, this ASUS drive is a gold standard for performance and reliability; for this price it's unbeatable.  The black interior is supposed to help with read/write reliability by cutting light & reflection pollution that can interfere with the laser so, if you go with another brand, definitely look for the black interior tray.


Pretty solid, basic monitor:

 - ASUS VE247H Black 23.6" 2ms Full HD HDMI LED BackLight LCD Monitor w/Speakers

After promo EMCKCJA46 and rebate, $160 delivered.  I don't like speakers included with my monitors, but I list this an as example of a fairly decent entry-level monitor.  You can certainly go higher end, but this will still take care of you.  One possibility, if you need to keep to budget, is get something similar to this one now, then add a second monitor to your system in a few months when you have time to scrape together some cash and research more carefully what will actually be a higher-performance model.
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Offline Nyking754

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #37 on: July 19, 2011, 08:05:06 PM »
new cart list i think i might go with these
(click to show/hide)

Online krumm

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #38 on: July 19, 2011, 08:33:24 PM »
new cart list i think i might go with these
(click to show/hide)

I have used that keyboard/mouse combo and can tell you that the keyboard is good, but the mouse sucks.  The other thing that stands out is the wifi card.  Is there a reason you want wifi, because if you can run a cable it is a lot better.

Offline Nyking754

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Re: help me buy a new comp
« Reply #39 on: July 19, 2011, 09:24:22 PM »
new cart list i think i might go with these
(click to show/hide)

I have used that keyboard/mouse combo and can tell you that the keyboard is good, but the mouse sucks.  The other thing that stands out is the wifi card.  Is there a reason you want wifi, because if you can run a cable it is a lot better.


i dont want to use the cable because im going to have to drill through the wall if i run the cable and also i have a router already


also i dropped the sony dvd player for the ASUS DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS Black SATA 24X DVD Burner - Bulk - OEM in a combo with the samsung hdd
« Last Edit: July 19, 2011, 09:26:41 PM by Nyking754 »