Author Topic: Defense of The Ancients...  (Read 2462 times)

Offline ichigoTAN

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Defense of The Ancients...
« on: July 21, 2011, 03:40:39 AM »
I would like to talk about a Hero that is very hard to manipulate: the INVOKER...

Anyone who use this hero kindly tell me what strategy and build you have for this guy.. Because I have a bet with my friend if I can use it with tenacity, then I might be promoted to an elite member in our clan... Using Garena BTW..



You could also tell me what hero you use and also share with us what devious strategy you have. ;D
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 03:43:23 AM by ichigoTAN »
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Online Clannad_92

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #1 on: July 21, 2011, 03:56:25 AM »
mine is razor, lightning revenant...
he's the coolest one(for me)...
my item; - mjollnir, sange and yasha, heart of t...,bloodstone, butterfly, the red shoes(teleport)...
sorry for incomplete name for i havent play dota for a very long time...

Offline ichigoTAN

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #2 on: July 21, 2011, 04:03:22 AM »
For the lightning revenant, I don't put Bloodstone... I only use Lothars and sometimes with radiance... Oh and bloodstone is not actually recommended on my opinion since you have already a Heart of tarrasque.... Well for an AI, yes...Hahaha
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Online Clannad_92

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #3 on: July 21, 2011, 04:17:51 AM »
For the lightning revenant, I don't put Bloodstone... I only use Lothars and sometimes with radiance... Oh and bloodstone is not actually recommended on my opinion since you have already a Heart of tarrasque.... Well for an AI, yes...Hahaha
since im newbie, my friend suggest it...well, i think that bloodstone for regenerate mana...

another hero...troll warlord, spiritbreaker, ursa, magina...

Offline ichigoTAN

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #4 on: July 21, 2011, 04:20:21 AM »
Another one is when I use Mortred (Phantom Assassin), I use 3 butterflies sometimes.. LOL or maybe 3 BattleFurys... and the remaining 3 are miscellaneous...
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Online Clannad_92

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #5 on: July 21, 2011, 06:45:20 AM »
hey, how to defeat ursa equipped with heart of t... and vla...offering(the green one)?
i have trouble defeating one even though i set the ai to easy...

Offline Sosseres

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #6 on: July 21, 2011, 08:02:25 AM »
hey, how to defeat ursa equipped with heart of t... and vla...offering(the green one)?
i have trouble defeating one even though i set the ai to easy...

There are several ways, Ursa is an insanely strong solo hero if he gets to hit in the level 7-20 range. Stun him and hit him, be faster than him and ranged. Have another carry such as Mortred with natural evasion and extra evasion from butterfly and use ghost sceptre to stop ursa from attacking when he has the buff on. Heroes like Troll and Void can perma bash him in the later stages of the game. Most times Ursa tends to be crowd controlled with stuns and sleeps in larger fights and then just die when he is the last one left.

My favourite hero is Rylai. Nothing is as much fun as playing a hero whose main job after min 30 is to not die. Not dying with a hero that flimsy is hard, requires reading the game quite a bit if one still wants to be helpful (warding, covering carries, assisting in ganks, being there for teamfights [in teamfights it is fine to die, it means they didn't hit somebody else]).

Lina is also pretty fun to play, insanely hard to do consistently good with her though. Having to read with the stun and gank isn't something that always is possible, so some games just go to hell.

As mentioned earlier for Razor, you don't need mana regen. Only time you should be using mana is in hero combat or late game quick farming, which means you likely lose enough HP to be forced to fountain regen anyhow.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 08:10:18 AM by Sosseres »

Offline ichigoTAN

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #7 on: July 21, 2011, 08:12:05 AM »
Also, ursa and Troll Warlord are the two heroes who can beat roshan even in mid-game.. When I use troll, If I just have Helm of dominator, and treads and being at least level 9, I can beat roshan easy...
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Online Clannad_92

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #8 on: July 21, 2011, 08:22:06 AM »
As mentioned earlier for Razor, you don't need mana regen. Only time you should be using mana is in hero combat or late game quick farming, which means you likely lose enough HP to be forced to fountain regen anyhow.
uhhhohoho...thanks, now i can drop bloodstone and add another item...
btw, what is razor's recommended item(all of it)?

about ursa, yes, he is insanely strong even me and my friend team up to beat ursa ended up with our life go bye-bye...ursa level 11 and me level 15 adn my friend level 14(items are considered as strong one) :-[

Offline ichigoTAN

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #9 on: July 21, 2011, 08:25:40 AM »
As for me, I use treads, mjolnir, lothars, butterfly, radiance (or Divine Rapier, LOL), heart of tarrasque... And I don't think you can put SnY and Mjolnir together....
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Online Clannad_92

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #10 on: July 21, 2011, 08:50:29 AM »
As for me, I use treads, mjolnir, lothars, butterfly, radiance (or Divine Rapier, LOL), heart of tarrasque...
sankyuu for sharing those item...respect you as a dota leader...

And I don't think you can put SnY and Mjolnir together....
and why is that? i always equip my heroes with SnY... :-[

Offline Sosseres

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #11 on: July 21, 2011, 10:09:50 AM »
Razor vs Ursa plays out like this. Near maximum range for your aoe you trigger it and damage ursa. As he moves closer you trigger your ulti and the damage drain skill. Then you keep out of range and hit behind you (assuming ursa doesn't have blink/lothar yet). Razor has a speed boost, which means Ursa won't ever get to hit him. After a while of ulti - armor and dmg draining him you can turn around and just kill him or keep kiting him. If Ursa gets lothar or dagger you have to get Ghost Scepter to survive him long enough to put distance between you.

Razor isn't a hero that is good against Ursa, you basically need an item advantage.

As for Razor items, it depends on the level of opposition. If you face opponents that gank you and try to deny your farm then you have to pick items that are cheap but useful. Things like Vanguard and Hood (if many casters) are great after treads or phase boots. BoT isn't something you pick on a physical DPS hero early game unless you plan on farming all game (it is too expensive). Ideal items and the way there are both a part of a build and standard for Razor is a few stat boosters and/or magic wand -> treads -> vanguard -> hood. After that you can do a variety of things depending on opponent heroes, you can even start switching around earlier if you have a team strat that requires a certain item.

I see Razor as a debuffing tank with decent DPS early game. He then turns into a semi carry late game, getting eaten alive by real carries with similar farm. Razor is basically a middle of the road hero, useful all game long, but never the best hero at anything. Kind of like Mirana, yet she has her arrow and leap compared to a static speed boost and damage drain/gain. (Mirana also has worse stats, though I think she has longer range? Edit, yep 600 vs 475.)
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 10:14:40 AM by Sosseres »

Online Clannad_92

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #12 on: July 21, 2011, 10:35:24 AM »
Razor vs Ursa plays out like this. Near maximum range for your aoe you trigger it and damage ursa. As he moves closer you trigger your ulti and the damage drain skill. Then you keep out of range and hit behind you (assuming ursa doesn't have blink/lothar yet). Razor has a speed boost, which means Ursa won't ever get to hit him. After a while of ulti - armor and dmg draining him you can turn around and just kill him or keep kiting him. If Ursa gets lothar or dagger you have to get Ghost Scepter to survive him long enough to put distance between you.

Razor isn't a hero that is good against Ursa, you basically need an item advantage.

As for Razor items, it depends on the level of opposition. If you face opponents that gank you and try to deny your farm then you have to pick items that are cheap but useful. Things like Vanguard and Hood (if many casters) are great after treads or phase boots. BoT isn't something you pick on a physical DPS hero early game unless you plan on farming all game (it is too expensive). Ideal items and the way there are both a part of a build and standard for Razor is a few stat boosters and/or magic wand -> treads -> vanguard -> hood. After that you can do a variety of things depending on opponent heroes, you can even start switching around earlier if you have a team strat that requires a certain item.

I see Razor as a debuffing tank with decent DPS early game. He then turns into a semi carry late game, getting eaten alive by real carries with similar farm. Razor is basically a middle of the road hero, useful all game long, but never the best hero at anything. Kind of like Mirana, yet she has her arrow and leap compared to a static speed boost and damage drain/gain. (Mirana also has worse stats, though I think she has longer range? Edit, yep 600 vs 475.)
no wonder i used him and play like a noob...
 :)
btw sankyuu for the tip...

Offline Sosseres

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #13 on: July 21, 2011, 10:47:57 AM »
Also, ursa and Troll Warlord are the two heroes who can beat roshan even in mid-game.. When I use troll, If I just have Helm of dominator, and treads and being at least level 9, I can beat roshan easy...

You can include various summoning heroes in this. Furion with his treants, Enigma (summoning on the summons, so hard to do), Chen/Enchantress (both of these with jungle creeps), Venomancer (harder to do than one would think since Roshan tends to focus the hero over the wards), Lycanthrope with his wolves, kinda Broodmother (you will have to lane scourge mid and send the summons there, never tried it though, so might not work, at level 11 with some items you can do it without summons). Any carry hero with sick sick farm can do it at level 9, talking about divine level farm (possible but very rare).

The most fun way to kill Roshan though is to do it before the first creep wave spawns. It is very obvious if you pick heroes for that though, there are only like 10 combos that can do it. Basically need 2 summoners and or Lich with armour.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 11:11:05 AM by Sosseres »

Offline x5ga

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #14 on: July 21, 2011, 11:08:32 AM »
I don't usually play DOTA nowadays, but when I do, I pick Spectre or Lifestealer and pwn everybody (unless some profag picks Ancient Apparition).

Offline Sosseres

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #15 on: July 21, 2011, 11:10:05 AM »
Do you lane or jungle N'aix? Oh and how do you get farm as spectre? Most pub players I've seen pick him just plain die to ganks and never get their items.

Offline x5ga

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #16 on: July 21, 2011, 11:21:05 AM »
I usually lane with n'aix since I tried to jungle drunk once without buying armor and got destroyed in less than a minute after game start. Farming with the spectre is relatively easy, just get spectral dagger and run (over obstacles of course) if there's trouble. Running away is a must early in the game, but the spectre becomes almost invincible late in the game.

Offline ichigoTAN

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #17 on: July 21, 2011, 12:12:36 PM »
Anyway, back to the main topic at hand, could you guys help me with invoker???
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Offline Sosseres

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #18 on: July 21, 2011, 12:31:51 PM »
I suggest you just look up a couple of replays of pros playing him and copying them until you understand why they are doing what they are doing. It is the best place to start learning a hero. I don't know how to play invoker.

http://dota.replays.net/HeroReplays.aspx?hero=H00U Is a list of high level replays featuring Invoker. Do consider that he was nerfed in a recent version, so any games prior to that will have different strategies used on him. I suggest you skip the pub games since those usually has somebody that is good with invoker yet not very good.
« Last Edit: July 21, 2011, 12:35:52 PM by Sosseres »

Offline Cookiz

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Re: Defense of The Ancients...
« Reply #19 on: July 21, 2011, 05:36:15 PM »
Ah. DotA. Long time ago ^^
Invoker. Hes a strange one. Like the user above me said. Watch some replays. Its possible to build 'close' eveything on him. Support, semi-carry. Depends how you skill as well.
btw. Mortred, the phantom assassin. Forever love! <3

About Razor build. Im positive eye of skadi and Mjollnir stack. And S&Y doesnt? Mjollnir isnt recommended tho :3 S&Y, and split it later for Manta style and Eye of Skadi. Depends on your enemies, a vanguard and some magic armor (maybe bkb) would be useful for you to stay in teamfight to deal your dmg. (ulti and dmg drain)