Discussion Forums > Gaming
The best storyline in game history?
angrmgmt:
--- Quote from: TMRNetShark on September 06, 2011, 01:15:28 PM ---
--- Quote from: angrmgmt on September 06, 2011, 04:29:27 AM ---
--- Quote from: TMRNetShark on September 05, 2011, 03:01:14 PM ---You would agree that there are dumb people out there who wouldn't get why Hamlet was such a great play... well guess what? If there are people who don't get Hamlet, there are gonna be people who don't get SoTC's story and view it as "simple" or cliche. ::)
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Shakespeare is cliche
Don't believe me?
Still??
There are VOLUMES written about cliche phrases and themes in Shakespeare plays. They teach college courses about the stuff, man.
Your move. ^_^
PS - I've never even played the game, so as far as I know it's not in the slightest cliche and has nothing to do with Shakespeare. Just saying, wrong is wrong.
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A. Stop being naive...
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You're a little young to be calling me naive, padawan. I'll forgive the hubris of youth, though.
--- Quote ---B. Hamlet is only filled with cliche phrases, not themes. The links you gave me was just the definition of cliche, a list of cliche phrases that Shakespeare coined himself (thus, was Shakespeare the person who used cliches or did people use his phrases and turned them cliche through repetition... mind you, Shakespeare's plays have been going on for quite some time), and finally some guy reviewing a certain production of Shakespeare in London. Great counter-arguments... ::)
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And to be nice, I deleted the phrase "These are just a few links that I could barely stay interested long enough to google for you." You're almost right about my links, except the review includes several themes of Shakespeare's that do pop up in many other things from time to time. Oh, and then there's the fact that if you actually read those phrases, you will see that several of them are themes unto themselves. Unfortunately for your ego, (and shame on you, you should know this since you're attending school) there ARE college-level courses and entire volumes (read: sets of books) written regarding the use of themes from Shakespeare's plays whether you are aware of them or not. This use (and overuse) turns everything he's ever done into a cliche over time. Do you honestly think that all the stories you watch, read, or play are original? You called me naive?
--- Quote ---So for starters, I wasn't comparing the whole play of Hamlet to SoTC... I was comparing the tragedy element of Hamlet to SoTC (Hamlet has a lot of themes like Revenge and Incestuous Desire, neither of which were in SoTC). So not only did you just fall flat on your face (by not aiming at the themes but focusing on cliche phrases that were said in Shakespeare's plays), but you are claiming that I am wrong even though you have never finished the game. Congrats, you've gone full blown retarded. You may redeem yourself yet... so taking from what I said, comparing dramatic necessity from Hamlet to SoTC, name 5 other games/movies/TV shows that express those same themes that is comparable to theme I mentioned for Hamlet/SoTC (just in case your too stupid to remember, dramatic necessity is the theme you are looking for). I can gaurantee you that theme is not cliche, and once again... people are too stupid to understand the themes of Hamlet and hence... Shadows of The Colossus. (Yourself included)
Your move. ;)
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Off the top of my head, Irreversible and Requiem for a Dream come to mind. Can't think of any more at the moment, but I'm sure there are plenty. Just because I can't think of them at 8 am doesn't mean they don't exist. My claim that you are wrong stems from the fact that you're seemingly unaware that Shakespeare source material is the very definition of cliche. No crime, to be sure, but it does make your argument weaker.
And look, there's a whole reply without once calling you stupid or a retard. Shit, I didn't even imply it. I get +100 internets.
Osmo:
I wanted to buy a PS2 just to play a certain Metal Gear solid game.
And is it worth playing planescape torment considering its a grandad game?
Reape:
--- Quote from: Osmo on September 06, 2011, 04:45:34 PM ---And is it worth playing planescape torment considering its a grandad game?
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You dare even ask..
TMRNetShark:
@angrmgmt
You just don't get it, do you? Age has nothing to do with being intelligent, thus you dug yourself into the stupid hole there.
Second: You claim that there are dozens of books that go into the themes of Shakespeare but you have yet to procure them. Then you claim that they are indeed factual, when really you are assuming. Either show proof of these cliche themes being used significantly in our modern entertainment, or draw conclusions or parallels between Shakespeare and the show/movie/video game. Don't spout nonsense that you neither understand nor even mention and try to claim it as fact. Draw your own conclusions YOURSELF. Using other people's words (without even stating those words, whatever they are) as an argument does not give your argument any leg to stand on and make you look DUMB. That's right. D. U. M. B.
So you are claiming that Requiem for a Dream is a cliche movie compared to other movies today and in the past? Do you even understand the concept of cliche? You even linked a definition of the word cliche. It means the repeated use of a phrase and/or theme until it becomes a STEREOTYPE. Since when was Requiem for a Dream a stereotypical movie? How many movies out there end the narrative by going against the audiences' hopes for the protagonists? There aren't that many (mind you there are some movies that follow Shakespearean themes) but they ALL do not fit the term cliche. Go ahead, look at your wikipedia page that defines what cliche is. It's not just repetition, it's repetition until it becomes a stereotype. That, and when was the last time someone pointed out a Shakespearan stereotype to you? ::)
angrmgmt:
--- Quote from: TMRNetShark on September 06, 2011, 07:27:24 PM ---@angrmgmt
You just don't get it, do you? Age has nothing to do with being intelligent, thus you dug yourself into the stupid hole there.
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Incorrect. I simply attempted to help you to realize that as naive as you may think I am, you are speaking from a position of relatively greater naivete. Hope that makes sense. I'm well aware of the lack of correlation between age and intelligence. Age and wisdom, however, have a relationship that is quite direct. Now calm down with your "stupid hole" mudslinging and stick to the facts, slugger. ^_^
--- Quote ---Second: I am too lazy to look things up for myself. Also you're a big dumb dummy since you won't do it for me.
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Paraphrased, obviously, but okay. Here you go. Need more on the "themes from phrases" concept? Also, to answer a question from the next paragraph, I have a close friend who has a degree in English literature, has several of those books on his shelves, and has taken the classes to which I referred. He points out Shakespearean tropes, themes, and cliches to me constantly. I'm not making this stuff up! Consider the fact that your experience of reality may be limited, please!
--- Quote ---So you are claiming that Requiem for a Dream is a cliche movie compared to other movies today and in the past? Do you even understand the concept of cliche? You even linked a definition of the word cliche. It means the repeated use of a phrase and/or theme until it becomes a STEREOTYPE. Since when was Requiem for a Dream a stereotypical movie? How many movies out there end the narrative by going against the audiences' hopes for the protagonists? There aren't that many (mind you there are some movies that follow Shakespearean themes) but they ALL do not fit the term cliche. Go ahead, look at your wikipedia page that defines what cliche is. It's not just repetition, it's repetition until it becomes a stereotype. That, and when was the last time someone pointed out a Shakespearan stereotype to you? ::)
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Wrong again. I'm claiming (in response to your "homework question") that those are examples of dramatic necessity... a term you BOLDED in your post. I'm actually not even sure why I bothered to do it, since you seem to be arguing from a fixed position. As far as I can tell, nothing anyone says could possibly convince you that you're just missing the point. I am going to venture a guess that this is because you REALLY liked SotC, and you identify with it personally. As with religion, it's very difficult (read: nigh impossible) to productively argue with someone who internalizes and identifies very strongly with a particular belief. Shame how often this happens. =/
Anyway, to restate my original claim, you can't argue that something is not cliche by comparing it to something that is notoriously cliche, no matter how superfluously great, or deep, nuanced, and involved you think that thing to be. It's simply not a good argument. I'm still not contesting the claim that the game is deep and complex, thematically! Again, I have no ground from which to do so, as I mentioned in my first post.
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