Illegal? Or just fun?

[CodeMonkey]

How cute, you just posted diagrams for what I just told you. Rev Limiters and Speed Governors are two different things for different functions. One prevents your engine from red lining and the othere prevents you from going too fast. 

I also said that they work in conjunction. So what's your point?

Your little wiki prayer doesn't impress me. the ICS has been integrated into the ECM (Electronic Control Module) or ECU (Electronic Control Unit) for a looong time or is just referred to as the Electronic Control Module/Unit. I've been building performance engines for 20+ years. You didn't even think the "trick" of chipping a G35 existed. Go learn some more then talk to me. LOL!

[TMRNetShark]

How cute, you just posted diagrams for what I just told you. Rev Limiters and Speed Governors are two different things for different functions. One prevents your engine from red lining and the othere prevents you from going too fast. 

I also said that they work in conjunction. So what's your point?

Your little wiki prayer doesn't impress me. I've been building performance engines for 20+ years. You didn't even think the "trick" of chipping a G35 existed. Go learn some more than talk to me.

They are not two different things. An engine governor controls the RPMs, right? The Rev limiter is the SAME thing.

If they are two different things, prove it. Where is the "part" or the piece of the engine that limits the RPM? Modern cars have the combination of them both because the ECU knows what gear the car is in, thus limiting (or "governing") the RPM in 5th or 6th gear as well as limiting the engine from over-revving. You don't know what you are talking about. 

[CodeMonkey]

How cute, you just posted diagrams for what I just told you. Rev Limiters and Speed Governors are two different things for different functions. One prevents your engine from red lining and the othere prevents you from going too fast.  

I also said that they work in conjunction. So what's your point?

Your little wiki prayer doesn't impress me. I've been building performance engines for 20+ years. You didn't even think the "trick" of chipping a G35 existed. Go learn some more than talk to me.

They are not two different things. An engine governor controls the RPMs, right? The Rev limiter is the SAME thing.

If they are two different things, prove it. Where is the "part" or the piece of the engine that limits the RPM? Modern cars have the combination of them both because the ECU knows what gear the car is in, thus limiting (or "governing") the RPM in 5th or 6th gear as well as limiting the engine from over-revving. You don't know what you are talking about.  

No, wait, you're not understanding. Let me explain in more detail. Also the Ford Governor you showed has been extinct and out dated for DECADES. LOL!

A speed governor will limit revs, but it will do it in one of two ways, one of which, the bad one, was on the 80s-90s Ford 5.0s. It will either start skipping sparks so only every other cylinder gets a spark or it will shut down the EFS (electronic Fuel supply) or it will shut down the spark all together (this is mostly an aftermarket performance type ignition, because avoiding the red line on performance engines is the utmost priority more so than on the stock car). The Fuel cut off one is horribad, because it will run an extremely lean fuel mixture for a period of time, which will cause a spike in temperature, that can and will warp aluminum heads. Either way, RPMs go down, car slows down.

Now, a Rev limiter on its own only starts skipping or delaying sparks when the revs get in the red, to prevent the damage I mentioned earlier. It has nothing to do with the cars actual speed, because the speed is controlled by the RPMs depending on the gear, which is monitored electronically by a trans mondule, also called a valve body inhibitor. Now, most cars in top gear, will reach the speed barrier long before the red line barrier, so it's the speed limiter that is limiting revs or activating the rev limiter. They are two very distinct and different mechanisms or functions that just have the same end result, that's why for the general bloke, it's just called an "Engine Governing System", which is BOTH the Rev Limiter/Governor and Speed Limiter/Governor.

The average performance enthusiast wants to remove the speed limiter, but NOT the rev limiter. Do understand that? The nice, easily removable and exchangeable ECM chip will do that.

The only one that doesn't know what he's talking about is you. The fact that you had to google that shit to find an outdated diagram and couldn't just explain it in a few words as well as saying chipping a G35 to get rid of the Speed Limiter is a nonexistant "Trick", proves you have no clue about this stuff.  LOL!

[TMRNetShark]

No, wait, you're not understanding. Let me explain in more detail. Also the Ford Governor you showed has been extinct and out dated for DECADES. LOL!

A speed governor will limit revs, but it will do it in one of two ways, one of which, the bad one, was on the 80s-90s Ford 5.0s. It will either start skipping sparks so only every other cylinder gets a spark or it will shut down the EFS (electronic Fuel supply) or it will shut down the spark all together (this is an aftermarket performance type ignition). The Fuel cut off one is horribad, because it will run an extremely lean fuel mixture for a period of time, which will cause a spike in temperature, that can and will warp aluminum heads. Either way, RPMs go down, car slows down.

Now, a Rev limiter on its own only starts skipping or delaying sparks when the revs get in the red, to prevent the damage I mentioned earlier. It has nothing to do with the cars actual speed, because the speed is controlled by the RPMs depending on the gear. Now, most cars in top gear, will reach the speed barrier long before the red line barrier, so it's the speed limiter that is limiting revs or activating the rev limiter. They are two very distinct and different mechanisms or functions that just have the same end result, that's why for the general bloke, it's just called an "Engine Governing System".

The average performance enthusiast wants to remove the speed limiter, but NOT the rev limiter. Do understand that? The nice, easily removable and exchangeable ECM chip will do that.

So not only did you say that the Rev limiter and the governor do the SAME thing... but you fail to mention the "part" or piece of the engine the does the "rev limiting" and that isn't the governor. The only reason I showed you an old diagram is because there is no such thing as an engine part called the "rev limiter". The governor or rev limiter is the same thing. It's the same thing in modern cars (in the form of an ECU and ICS, or microchips controlling when the engine starts to cut out) and older cars that start to cut power to the spark plugs.

Modern cars have everything built into the ECU. Governor/Rev limiters are built into microchips. In OLDER cars (that don't use microchips)... where is the Rev limiters? WHERE? It's called a Governor for reason. Saying that a rev limiter and governor on a modern car are two completely different things is idiotic because everything is controlled by a computer (the ECU). The rev limiter is a NEEDED process that the ECU needs to keep track of, the electronic governor isn't (thus can be easily reflashed or program to remove it).

I am talking about OLDER cars (which you clearly ignore). Where is the Rev limiter on an OLDER car that has no microchips? Where?

Stop being ignorant. You admit that a rev limiter and governor is the SAME thing in a car (being controlled by the ECU) and have failed time and time again to point out where a rev limiter is on a non-computer controlled car.  

[CodeMonkey]

You are clueless and repeating the same thing. I did not admit to anything, I said they are different mechanisms/functions that just have the same end result.

A rev limiter and a speed limiter are not the same thing, they are part of the same system and have the same results. Just because they are both programmed into the same Chip, does not make them the same thing. I explained their functionality very simply and if you still don't get it, I'm wasting my time. The ignorance is only on you.

If they are the "same" thing, why is it that you can remove the speed limiter, but can keep the red line rev limiter still present and active? Not the same thing, that's why. LOL! 

What you keep calling the "same" thing is a HUGE system that controls everything from spark and valve timing timing to emission control and engine temp regulation, as well as everything in between. Things are not even close to your uneducated knowledge or your perception of them and your ignorance of car mechanics just makes me laugh.     

[TMRNetShark]

You are clueless and repeating the same thing. I did not admit to anything, I said they are different mechanisms/functions that just have the same end result.

A rev limiter and a speed limiter are not the same thing, they are part of the same system and have the same results. Just because they are both programmed into the same Chip, does not make them the same thing. I explained their functionality very simply and if you still don't get it, I'm wasting my time. The ignorance is only on you.

If they are the "same" thing, why is it that you can remove the speed limiter, but can keep the red line rev limiter still present and active? Not the same thing, that's why. LOL! 

What you keep calling the "same" thing is a HUGE system that controls everything from spark and valve timing timing to emission control and engine temp regulation, as well as everything in between. Things are not even close to your uneducated knowledge or your perception of them and your ignorance of car mechanics just makes me laugh.     

Lol. You are hopeless.

Rev Limiter = limits revs (under certain programmable conditions)
Governor = limits revs (under certain programmable conditions)

"they are part of the same system and have the same results"
Thank you for proving my point.

The reason you can remove a speed limiter is the same reason I can remove a rev limiter and blow up an engine or shoot a piston through the head... it's "programmable". 

And once again, you have not pointed out WHERE the rev limiter is on a non-computer controlled car that isn't the engine's governor. If you actually knew about cars, you could easily answer. Stop avoiding the question (because you know you are wrong/can't prove that I'm wrong). Stop making yourself look bad and admit that you are wrong.

[CodeMonkey]

See now you see your fail and are twisting words.
It's a Rev Limiter/Governor and Speed Limiter/Governor we are talking here. Which further shows your ignorance, because a "Governor" is a generic term encompassing all of them.

You also seem to be illiterate, because you are also miss quoting me. I said they are part of the same "SYSTEM" (which you also keep saying) [A system=whole compounded of several parts or members], but are different components, having only the same end result.

I also said, just because they are part of the same system does NOT make them the same thing. By your cracked logic, having no fuel or having no spark is the same thing, since they are both part of the same system and have the same end result... FAIL much you do.   

Oh yeah, LMAO, so everything that is "programmable" on a car is the "same" thing? WoW, really!? Man go to any Mech Engineering course or even any place that deals with cars professionally and please get yourself filmed when you get lynched for saying such a thing.

[TMRNetShark]

See now you see your fail and are twisting words.
It's a Rev Limiter/Governor and Speed Limiter/Governor we are talking here. Which further shows your ignorance, because a "Governor" is a generic term encompassing all of them.

You also seem to be illiterate, because you are also miss quoting me. I said they are part of the same "SYSTEM" (which you also keep saying) [A system=whole compounded of several parts or members], but are different components, having only the same end result.

I also said, just because they are part of the same system does NOT make them the same thing. By your cracked logic, having no fuel or having no spark is the same thing, since they are both part of the same system and have the same end result... FAIL much you do.   

Still failing to mention where a rev limiter is on a non-computer controlled engine.... 

*I'm ignoring the rest of what you are saying because you don't know what you are talking about, thus isn't worth arguing*

[CodeMonkey]

Holy FAIL Batman. I don't remember you asking that specifically, but just to prove your ignorance further... The most common Rev Limiter on any non-comp controlled engine is a Centrifugal Rev Limiter on the Distributor Shaft, but there are also shaft position/rotation sensors while on other makes/models there are Cam or Crank rotation sensors that serve this function, but the most trustworthy and used is/was the Centrifugal [you obviously don't know, so look it up]. While the Speed Limiter is controlled by a Speed or Top Gear Rev monitor on the Trans Valve Body. VERY DIFFERENT thingies chucky. LMAO! 

You're going to "ignore me" because I've proven your ignorance and lack of knowledge repeatedly. I know you're automotively ignorant, but I hold no grudge.

*Don't talk what you obviously don't know.*

[TMRNetShark]

Holy FAIL Batman. I don't remember you asking that specifically, but just to prove your ignorance further... The Rev Limiter on any non-comp controlled engine is a Centrifugal Rev Limiter on the Distributor Shaft [you obviously don't know, so look it up]. While the Speed Limiter is controlled by a Speed or Top Gear Rev monitor on the Trans Valve Body. VERY DIFFERENT thingies chucky. LMAO!  

You're going to "ignore me" because I've proven your ignorance and lack of knowledge repeatedly.

*Don't talk what you don't know. *

Holy Fail on your part!

Centrifugal Rev Limiter
Speed Limiter

What do you see in both of those links? It says "Governor (device)", right? Well, let's look at that link!

Centrifugal (Governor):

Centrifugal flyweight mechanism driven by the engine is linked to the throttle and works against a spring in a fashion similar to that of the pneumatic governor, resulting in essentially identical operation. A centrifugal governor is more complex to design and produce than a pneumatic governor. However, the centrifugal design is more sensitive to speed changes and hence is better suited to engines that experience large fluctuations in loading.

"Top Gear monitor on Trans Valve Body":

A Pneumatic governor mechanism senses air flow from the flywheel blower used to cool an air-cooled engine. The typical design includes an air vane mounted inside the engine's blower housing and linked to the carburetor's throttle shaft. A spring pulls the throttle open and as the engine gains speed, increased air flow from the blower forces the vane back against the spring, partially closing the throttle. Eventually a point of equilibrium will be reached and the engine will run at a relatively constant speed. Pneumatic governors are simple in design and inexpensive to produce. However, they do not regulate engine speed very accurately and are affected by air density, as well as external conditions that may influence airflow.

What you just mentioned are two different designs of governors... not a "Rev limiter" and a "Speed Limiter" (because they are the same thing).


EDIT: On you are an idiot too, cause there is no such thing as a "Transmission Valve Body" on a manual transmission... just saying. So no, you are CLUELESS.

[CodeMonkey]

Man stop googling shit and GET yourself some actual tech manuals or actually start taking apart engines. You're mixing apples and oranges. You obviously have no clue and think praying to the google god will get you all the right answers. I already told you "Governor" is a generic term that encompasses all engine limiters. I've already explained it to you countless times, the reason a speed limiter is also called a rev limiter and vice verse is because they BOTH have the same end result, BUT they are not the same, their purposes are entirely different just as not having fuel or not having a spark have the same end result, but are not the same thing.

One prevents engine blow out and the other prevents going too fast, what can you possibly not understand? You've obviously never worked on a car in real life, except for maybe pumpin gas, changing the oil or changing a tire, and googling yourself silly will not change that, but your ignorance has gotten boring.

On a Manual Trans, it's just the same type of rotation sensor that cuts spark, duh, it's a much simpler design than on an Auto Trans (in modern applications), due to auto trans that are "smart". What you seem to fail to understand is that a lot or most of these things are patented so there are countless different ways to tackle the same thing. You think that the few goggle pics you looked at encompass all cars? Also most of the shit you're interested, looking up and finding is old and outdated. LMAO!

Rev limiter and Speed Limiter, BOTH slow down the engine, but are not the same thing.
Aaaanndd, I'm done with you. I just hope you never actually work on any car. LOL! 

   

[TMRNetShark]

Man stop googling shit and GET yourself some actual tech manuals or actually start taking apart engines. I already told you "Governor" is a generic term that encompasses all engine limiters. I've already explained it to you countless times, the reason a speed limiter is also called a rev limiter and vice verse is because they BOTH have the same end result, BUT they are not the same, theirt purposes are entirely different. You've obviously never worked on a car in real life, except for maybe pumpin gas, changing the oil or changing a tire, but your ignorance has gotten boring.

   

I'm not the one that claimed that a transmission valve body is actually used to control the revs in a car. Rev limiters and governors are the same thing, and they serve the same purpose (of limiting revs). I've worked on cars before, and more beyond my own line of cars. You are saying they have the same result. I know they do, because it's the same thing. You claim it's not the same even though the process of limiting a car's revs is the same process that the car uses to limit it's speed (by limiting the revs!). Governors is a generic term, yes. What do engine governors do? They limit revs! What is a Rev limiter? It limits revs! There are different types of governors... from distro cap governors to certifugal governors to carb mounted governors. They are all governors and do the same thing (limiting revs!)! Logically and technically, you failed.

But if you claimed you've worked on cars a long time, you would know all this crap. I have worked on cars since I was 15 years old. I've rebuilt a total of 5 cars (Ranging from an old 95 Saturn to a nice 76 Stingray Corvette). I know what I'm talking about. If you don't believe me? Guess what? I have my ASE certification along with my OSHA and PHMSA trainings (I work for DuPont). That has nothing to do with it, but I know what I'm talking about when it comes to things that are "technical". Car included. 

If you want to keep arguing, be my guest. You insult me while being wrong... I at least insult when I know I'm right. So...  *wuff*

[CodeMonkey]

You've never worked on any car and if you had a clue, on modern auto transes the speed limiter is tied to a rev module on the valve body that inhibits ignition, when a certain speed is reached. Rev Governors were and still are only related to the actual RPMs of the engine, independent of the car's actual speed, while speed governors are only related to the actual speed of the car independent of the car's actual revs, so how are those the same thing in your delusion? Is it that they both drop engine RPMs so that's what makes them the "same"? FAIL, but I already mentioned how by your FAIL logic, no spark or no fuel is the same thing due to same end result, but for even a better analogy, according to you bot Gasoline and Nitro Meth are the "same" thing because they are both fuel. Try sticking some Nitro Meth and see how your car runs, since they are the "same" thing by your logic. Man I can't stop laughing, cars are so not like your little fantasy.   

Since I was nice enough to cater to your ignorance, how about you answer my question:

its very possible its a trick designed for the soft limiter, i live in jersey and have yet to have a road empty enough and without worry of cops enough to hit the soft limit of 144/5 on my g35 ive only been able to find space to get it up to 130 and im stuck dealing with other assholes whilst doing that.

The G35 (I'm assuming coupe?) is electronically governed to 155 mph. You cannot go past 155 mph no matter what you do. There is no trick, there is no "method" or anything like that. Trust me, if there was a trick, people would figure it out and post videos on youtube of them doing it.

Why is this "no trick" and "no method" right here AND even on Youtube so you can in fact, quite easily go past the 155 limiter?
Click *HERE*
     

[TMRNetShark]

You've never worked on any car and if you had a clue, on modern auto transes the speed limiter is tied to a rev module on the valve body that inhibits ignition, when a certain speed is reached. Rev Governors were and still are only related to the actual RPMs of the engine, independent of the car's actual speed, while speed governors are only related to the actual speed of the car independent of the car's actual revs, so how are those the same thing in your delusion?

Since I was nice enough to cater to your ignorance, how about you answer my question:

its very possible its a trick designed for the soft limiter, i live in jersey and have yet to have a road empty enough and without worry of cops enough to hit the soft limit of 144/5 on my g35 ive only been able to find space to get it up to 130 and im stuck dealing with other assholes whilst doing that.

The G35 (I'm assuming coupe?) is electronically governed to 155 mph. You cannot go past 155 mph no matter what you do. There is no trick, there is no "method" or anything like that. Trust me, if there was a trick, people would figure it out and post videos on youtube of them doing it.

Why is this "no trick" and "no method" right here AND even on Youtube so you can in fact, quite easily go past the 155 limiter?
Click *HERE*
     

/sigh

Tell me one car that you have worked on. I will ask you a question about that car. In return, I will let you ask any question about a car I've worked on.

1976 Corvette Stingray with a 5.7 LT1 crate motor.

Go!

[fohfoh]

[TMRNetShark]

(click to show/hide)

Shhhh! I find it funny when people try to use ad hominems on me!

But yes, this is a total pissing contest. I'm just waiting until he either gives up or admits defeat(which is the smarter choice, but people think they are smart for some reason?). I know this is the internet, so it'll probably be neither.

[fohfoh]

[CodeMonkey]

/sigh
Tell me one car that you have worked on. I will ask you a question about that car. In return, I will let you ask any question about a car I've worked on.
1976 Corvette Stingray with a 5.7 LT1 crate motor.
Go!

Man, I've worked on more cars than you can even imagine. I've been a gearhead for almost 25 years.I collect cars and Blueprint HP engines. I LOVE cars. I've personally worked on anything from GM ranging from 65 to the 90s. Dodge/Chrysler from 66 to 76. Ford late 60s, skip the 70s and most of the 80s, to like Mid 80s to late 90s. 80s BMWs and mid to late 2000s BMWs, 80s and 90s HP Alfa Romeo and the list goes on so I'm not gonna bother.

Fuck it, fohfoh is right, I don't care anymore, if you wanna believe a RPM limiter is the same thing as a Speed Limiter go right ahead. I mean don't let the fact that they are two separately functioning entities phase you, cuz they are part of the same "system".         

[TMRNetShark]

/sigh
Tell me one car that you have worked on. I will ask you a question about that car. In return, I will let you ask any question about a car I've worked on.
1976 Corvette Stingray with a 5.7 LT1 crate motor.
Go!

Man, I've worked on more cars than you can even imagine. I've been a gearhead for almost 25 years.I collect cars and Blueprint HP engines. I LOVE cars. I've personally worked on anything from GM ranging from 65 to the 90s. Dodge/Chrysler from 66 to 76. Ford late 60s, skip the 70s and most of the 80s, to like Mid 80s to late 90s. 80s BMWs and mid to late 2000s BMWs, 80s and 90s HP Alfa Romeo and the list goes on so I'm not gonna bother.

Fuck it, fohfoh is right, I don't care anymore, if you wanna believe a RPM limiter is the same thing as a Speed Limiter go right ahead. I mean don't let the fact that they are two separately functioning entities phase you, cuz they are part of the same "system".        

Now you pussy out? Come onnnnn! Ask me a question!

I'll ask you one... what was so special about the Chevy LT1 350 and the 305? Example: 1984 Camaro sported both of these engine types (in the form of the Z28 using the 350 and the regular Camaro using the 305). What was so special about these engines that relates to BOTH engines (gave you the most obvious question that anyone who has actually worked on GM cars should know this).

I'll give you a hint...

EDIT:
I was practically giving the answer away... haha

[CodeMonkey]

Dude just to humor you, it's the same engine with a different bore, as well as the LT1 having a more HP cam, which is what can make the 305 an LT1 and better fuel delivery system as well as better ignition depending on specifics like what you wanted at the dealer. AFAIK though, they never made a stock or production LT1 305. Here's the thing, all stock American cars from give or take 72-73 to the mid to late 90s SUCK ASS! This is due to 3 things, overlapped valve timing, EGR and Catalytics. Oh as well as choking the engine with single exhaust. Almost the exact same engine (American Small block V8) that were putting out 300HP in the 60s were putting out half or less after the introduction of the things I mentioned above. I mean Christ, just by swapping out single exhaust to dual gives you up to 20% more power AND miles to the gallon. Before you jump to conclusions, about the shitty output, that was a "general" statement, there WERE exceptions, one of which was the LT1.

Oh I almost forgot, the LT1s also had a larger and better cooling jacket than the 305s and other GM smalblock V8s, which was part of the design transferred over to the aluminum LSs from the mid or late 90s.